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  #16  
Old 02-03-2013, 10:46 AM
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Re: Tesla

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Originally Posted by dbarnblatt View Post
Tow? Who tows?! Usually cars that tow stuff ARE the 2nd vehicle for most people.

The Tesla and other electric vehicles are the perfect FIRST vehicle for someone to own, since 99% of all driving tasks are done within 10 miles of people's residences.

Thats the whole point.

But, I guess if you were to tow something it has 443 lb-ft of torque and 416 hp... so it can pretty much tow a house.
Its not that everybody tows but since about a quarter of vehicles on the road have hitches there is a definate perception that a car needs to be able to tow.
Where are you getting your stats, the electric car propaganda office in d.c.? Try 90% within 25 miles, however, that 0ther 10% is why people by the vehicle they buy as those are the important needs. As Bill said, a true electric can be used for commuting or driving over the same "within winter charge" radius but it does not fit the bill as the car was designed. A freedom of mobility vehicle that allows you to go on vacation, drop the kids off at college, travel for work. Get up and decide to go for a drive in the country, etc. The charging will definately be the nearly impossible thing to overcome since.

I for one probably fit your 10 mile radius pretty good since both myself and my wife work within 2 miles of our home. Even in my case there 8s absolutely no savings to be found even if we sold one one of our cars and bought 2 zero cycles and rode to work every day of the year, Financially, electric cars fail, practically, electric cars fail, enviromentally, they fail since they require some many to have two modes of transportation.

Oh and how far do you think it would tow a 2000lbs trailer before that 443lbs/ft is halved by battery life? Think it would be as far as my XJR can tow with the low fuel light on?
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  #17  
Old 02-03-2013, 11:11 AM
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Re: Tesla

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Originally Posted by benebob View Post
Its not that everybody tows but since about a quarter of vehicles on the road have hitches there is a definate perception that a car needs to be able to tow.
Where are you getting your stats, the electric car propaganda office in d.c.? Try 90% within 25 miles, however, that 0ther 10% is why people by the vehicle they buy as those are the important needs. As Bill said, a true electric can be used for commuting or driving over the same "within winter charge" radius but it does not fit the bill as the car was designed. A freedom of mobility vehicle that allows you to go on vacation, drop the kids off at college, travel for work. Get up and decide to go for a drive in the country, etc. The charging will definately be the nearly impossible thing to overcome since.

I for one probably fit your 10 mile radius pretty good since both myself and my wife work within 2 miles of our home. Even in my case there 8s absolutely no savings to be found even if we sold one one of our cars and bought 2 zero cycles and rode to work every day of the year, Financially, electric cars fail, practically, electric cars fail, enviromentally, they fail since they require some many to have two modes of transportation.

Oh and how far do you think it would tow a 2000lbs trailer before that 443lbs/ft is halved by battery life? Think it would be as far as my XJR can tow with the low fuel light on?
I would think you would appreciate the "first step" this car is. One day an electric vehicle will fit your un-electric vehicle lifestyle... and that day is not too far off.

This Tesla may be a fail for you but it is a total win for my friend. People's lives are different.

A "drive in the country" as you put it, is possible, and has been done with this car. It can work as a total vacation car... lots of space, it's a fast GT style car. It has a 260 mile range... he has driven to Temecula and can easily go to Palm Springs, Santa barbara, Bakersfield, etc. and back to LA on a single charge.

He will never go to a gas station again, never have to get a smog check again, and really not have to get it serviced at all. Lets face it, it costs him pennies to run this car compared to a gasoline engined car. And don't throw the cost of this car out to offset that... people spend more (a lot more) on gasoline engined cars.

Last edited by dbarnblatt; 02-03-2013 at 11:17 AM.
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  #18  
Old 02-03-2013, 02:31 PM
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Re: Tesla

I test drove a model "S" last Sunday. It was the most impressive car I have ever driven.
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  #19  
Old 02-04-2013, 01:45 PM
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Re: Tesla

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Originally Posted by benebob View Post
Sadly, the limits of any electric vehicles relegate them to nothing more than a 2nd vehicle for 95% of the country. As nice as it looks. It is a toy, not a car.
I said something similar in a thread over on ecomodder.com. I got a reply from an extremely knowledgeable guy there who posited that an all-electric vehicle is a valid choice as first car for a majority of folks in the US, based on their daily round trip miles. The gasoline chugging truck with tow hitch becomes second car.
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  #20  
Old 02-04-2013, 01:58 PM
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Re: Tesla

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Originally Posted by wdb View Post
I said something similar in a thread over on ecomodder.com. I got a reply from an extremely knowledgeable guy there who posited that an all-electric vehicle is a valid choice as first car for a majority of folks in the US, based on their daily round trip miles. The gasoline chugging truck with tow hitch becomes second car.
Americans don't buy cars based on their daily round trip miles. They make their choice so they can go over the river and thru the woods to grandmother's house even if grandma lives 500 miles away. but thanks for agreeing that for most people the electric car is a toy and not an only vehicle that the family can live with, therefore it becomes a second vehicle, just as a motorcycle is nearly always a 2nd vehicle even though you can use it to drive your daily commute everyday of the year.
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  #21  
Old 02-04-2013, 03:14 PM
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Re: Tesla

To sell a perfectly good running car to buy an electric, or for that matter any car that is more economical is bad math. A friend had an F 250 truck getting 12 MPG. Left it in the garage and bought a car that got 20 miles to a gallon. After a year he sold it. Reason..tax on car, insurance,car payment,totaled 2 or 3 times what he saved on gas on his 40 mile a day commute. If you need a car and it is either a hybrid or electric and you normal daily driving can support the limited range, it is a good decision. Wife's ride to work is 45 miles each way. Our most distant relative is 200 miles away. We could get away with a Tesla X or S as a 1st car. We have to have two cars, as we both work different times and different directions.
I would have a Toyota Prius as my work car.
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Last edited by Conn SVX; 02-04-2013 at 03:17 PM.
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  #22  
Old 02-04-2013, 03:27 PM
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Re: Tesla

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Originally Posted by Conn SVX View Post
To sell a perfectly good running car to buy an electric, or for that matter any car that is more economical is bad math. A friend had an F 250 truck getting 12 MPG. Left it in the garage and bought a car that got 20 miles to a gallon. After a year he sold it. Reason..tax on car, insurance,car payment,totaled 2 or 3 times what he saved on gas on his 40 mile a day commute. If you need a car and it is either a hybrid or electric and you normal daily driving can support the limited range, it is a good decision. Wife's ride to work is 45 miles each way. Our most distant relative is 200 miles away. We could get away with a Tesla X or S as a 1st car. We have to have two cars, as we both work different times and different directions.
I would have a Toyota Prius as my work car.
So you must really like those relatives and plan to stay over for quite some time while your car charges up. That is provided you made it as that 250 mile range is in California where they not only have happy cows but happy batteries too. How much do you think the range will decrease in the winter. I know a dewalt lit. battery looses about 35 percent of its life below 32. As for your "toy" Prius, the Corolla with its ancient engine and gasp 4 speed tranny is more economical unless your driving over 200k in 7 years time. That was when you got a tax credit too so I'd suspect you'd need to up those miles to 230k today.
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  #23  
Old 02-04-2013, 04:04 PM
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Re: Tesla

Has anyone checked out the carbon footprint of those electric and hybrid cars? The pollution in Canada, the worldwide cycle to get the batteries and motors built. A petrol powered vehicle can go a lifetime with less impact. Go diesel for me as a much improved technology.
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  #24  
Old 02-05-2013, 08:30 AM
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Re: Tesla

Mileage-wise, I think your best bet remains the early Honda CRX with plastic everywhere and paper-thin sheet metal. If memory serves me right, it got over 50 mpg on the highway on regular gas. Set up right, it could be your DD and autoX toy. Now, if only all the boy racers hadn't snapped them all up and thrashed them...

Bill
p.s. good point about the carbon footprint of EVs -- it just moves it farther away from the end user so they don't see it on a daily basis
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  #25  
Old 02-05-2013, 09:16 AM
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Re: Tesla

The model S I drove was $90k. I think if you can afford one of these you can afford a 2nd vehicle. Range anxiety, actual cost per mile, true cost per mile, all valid points.
However, the car stands on its own as a supercar, irregardless of engine/fuel.
It has throttle response superior to any other ICE vehicle, handled like it was on rails, F-A-S-T, spooky quiet, with just a whoosh sound blasting up to 100 mph. Hard braking from 100 to 40 was very impressive also. This car is easily the (driving wise) superior to Porsche Panamera, Audi A8, Mercedes S600 etc.
Blasting over railroad tracks and potholes, the car was quiet and solid.
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  #26  
Old 02-05-2013, 09:23 AM
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Re: Tesla

Gordon, sell the herd and go for it.
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  #27  
Old 02-05-2013, 09:55 AM
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Re: Tesla

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Originally Posted by SVX92-97 View Post
Gordon, sell the herd and go for it.
I can see an electric performance car in my future...
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  #28  
Old 02-06-2013, 05:24 AM
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Re: Tesla

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Originally Posted by Conn SVX View Post
To sell a perfectly good running car to buy an electric, or for that matter any car that is more economical is bad math. A friend had an F 250 truck getting 12 MPG. Left it in the garage and bought a car that got 20 miles to a gallon. After a year he sold it. Reason..tax on car, insurance,car payment,totaled 2 or 3 times what he saved on gas on his 40 mile a day commute.
I parked my 22MPG STi and bought a 38MPG Honda Fit for my daily commute. The money I saved on gasoline alone made the car payments and covered the insurance. But then I was driving 165 miles/day.
Quote:
I would have a Toyota Prius as my work car.
I haven't gotten over the initial Hollywood reaction to that car. And the extra weight/complexity just doesn't make sense to me. Same with the rest of the hybrids. It seems to me that an electric car should be simpler, not more complex, than a car with an internal combustion engine.
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Originally Posted by benebob
That is provided you made it as that 250 mile range is in California where they not only have happy cows but happy batteries too. How much do you think the range will decrease in the winter. I know a dewalt lit. battery looses about 35 percent of its life below 32
Yup. Batteries just don't cut it, not yet anyway. Given the fact that the technology has been under development for several hundred years, I'm not optimistic about them being suitable for the task of transporting individual humans to disparate locales anytime soon.

I put a front undertray on the Fit. It stopped the front end from being blown around at highway speeds, made the car a full hoot to toss into an offramp, and added 2MPG to my average. It wasn't made from Venezuelan rare earths, and it doesn't need to be recharged.
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  #29  
Old 02-06-2013, 06:22 AM
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Re: Tesla

Every state is different. Buying a $33,000 car to save 10 MPG is not worth it
in Conn. In this state you pay tax every year on your car . I have a 2011 Honda Accord Coupe 6 that has the Eco motor. Gets 38 MPG high way ( yes I have actually tested it out ) we pay $600 a year tax on that car. The car I got rid of, wife totaled was 2004 Accura TL. That car got 32 MPG . Due to depreciation it was down to only paying $350 a year. If I sold my SVX that I pay $45.00 a year tax on to buy that Accord I would have to save $500 a year in gas or 125 gallons. A car getting 10 Mpg better I need to drive 12,000 miles just to break even. That is assuming you pay cash for the car. I always have. If you are a long distance commuter 125 miles each way per day. And do not mind paying tax on that car sitting in the garage. I guess everyone has his or her own idea of saving. I agree that the electric car is not our answer. I sure would like to not be depending on overseas oil. Maybe go back to steam... After all you can burn anything to make steam. And they are FAST set a speed record back sometime around 1910 of 1000 MPH +
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Last edited by Conn SVX; 02-06-2013 at 06:26 AM.
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  #30  
Old 02-06-2013, 01:46 PM
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Re: Tesla

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\ I sure would like to not be depending on overseas oil.
F---ing socialist. Personally, I believe in the free markets for free products. If the Chinese, Indians, or purple people are willing to pay more for oil then I am then they deserve to buy their oil from a US oil company. That and when the price lowers so far that it isn't worth paying American wages to get it out of the ground that leads to oil dependence. Nothing else. Sadly though, for every drop we take out of the ground here we are ensuring our future failure as the electric tank has even more shortcomings than the electric car.
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