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  #1  
Old 11-12-2008, 01:44 PM
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Arrow Front Differential (Backlash)

Hey all! New to the forum, but have been a background member gaining lots of knowledge from here. Bought my first claret in 2006 and am pretty familiar with them. I recently bought another claret from a member, SVXal, who you may all know. The car has front differential issues. As SVXal was told by the dealer who had looked at it the ring and pinion are shot and sheered. When moving this thing it is undoubtedly shot, so I am going to keep it limited to loading and unloading. I am pretty sure if you were to drive it, ignoring the crazy clunking sounds, that it would shift through the gears just fine. Seems solid and selects gears real well. I have it still loaded from my trip back from Moorhead, Mn and don't plan on moving it until I have figured a few things out. I have done some research and found it not to be a huge amount of work to remove the differential (it'll take a while, but not too difficult) however I am concerned about when completeing the install, setting the backlash. I have never set backlash personally but have enough knowledgeable colleagues who have. Only issue is getting the tool in there to measure and what not. I have a bad transmission and a good differential out of my first claret with like 125k on it and plan to use that one. It is sitting on the floor in my shop. I have read on here that just replacing the pinion and/or ring gear is a bad idea beacuse they are matched. Is that an issue putting my differential that I have now into the car I just picked up from SVXal? If so, any other ideas? If not, what other advice can anyone offer to setting this thing up to my exsisting transmission that will minimize my risk of blowing up the new diff. due to an offset?

I know this is the place to come for a question like this and any help would be greatly appreciated. Being as winter is already here I would like to get this thing setup to work on this weekend and get it replaced next week. Depending on the answers I get from here, I either have a hydraulic lift with a tranny jack and all the needed extras to work on it, or I will be doing it in my garage on jack stands.

I pulled a couple of pictures off the internet and off this forum to help me see what I am dealing with. I also included them on this post so that if someone needs to use the illustration to answer or help on this question they can do so.

Thank you in advance to all who reply to this post!

Sonny
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File Type: jpg 4EAT5.jpg (43.7 KB, 118 views)
File Type: jpg Clip Out.jpg (847.9 KB, 127 views)
File Type: jpg Front Clip Out.jpg (758.9 KB, 124 views)
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  #2  
Old 11-13-2008, 10:36 AM
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Re: Front Differential (Backlash)

I was under the impression that one didn't need to set backlash if everything, especially the pinion shims, from the donor transmission were used. That's what I did when I swapped out my front differential earlier this year.
If you're planning on rebuilding the differential, I've read that putting lithium grease on gears, bolting up the diff and spinning the gears, then unbolt and check where they were touching is one way to check backlash.
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  #3  
Old 11-13-2008, 10:41 AM
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Re: Front Differential (Backlash)

let me go ahead and say a hydrulic lift is the way to go. I recently did this job (Mostly OT was doing the work) I helped, but anyways I thought at first jack stands wouldnt be bad but after seeing it do lift and your pinnion bearing is shot my did the same thing when it went. It went very fast in a matter of 50 miles of making a noise. Go for same trans and diff matching isnt good as I was told. OT found one for 300 for me.
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1994 SVX L - FWD Barcelona Red 190K miles ~ SOLD

1994 SVX LS - 5spd AWD Emerald Green 202k miles PWR Radiator, HID 5000k, New paint job with issues, 17" STI BBS wheels, converted to 5spd AWD from FWD. Purchased from SVXyGirl 2/20/09 -- Undergoing complete rebuild
1993 Justy 4wd 5door- Teal of sorts , beater.
2008 OBXT Newport Pearl 65k miles
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  #4  
Old 11-13-2008, 01:30 PM
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Re: Front Differential (Backlash)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxo View Post
I was under the impression that one didn't need to set backlash if everything, especially the pinion shims, from the donor transmission were used. That's what I did when I swapped out my front differential earlier this year.
If you're planning on rebuilding the differential, I've read that putting lithium grease on gears, bolting up the diff and spinning the gears, then unbolt and check where they were touching is one way to check backlash.
Maxo, thanks for the reply. So what your thinking is I can just use the ring, pinion and any shims from the donor car and I should be fine? Did you remove the whole pinion and shaft together, or just remove the gear form the shaft? I am only going by what I have seen on the pictures I have found as I have not had the time to go to where my donor tranny is. I plan on trying to tear that baby off the transmission tonight so I see more of what I am dealing with.

What I am getting from you is remove the diff. case and then use the same pinion from the donor transmission as well as the shims. Any other advice?

I like the lithium grease idea!
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  #5  
Old 11-13-2008, 02:00 PM
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Re: Front Differential (Backlash)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikedjuggalo View Post
let me go ahead and say a hydrulic lift is the way to go. I recently did this job (Mostly OT was doing the work) I helped, but anyways I thought at first jack stands wouldnt be bad but after seeing it do lift and your pinnion bearing is shot my did the same thing when it went. It went very fast in a matter of 50 miles of making a noise. Go for same trans and diff matching isnt good as I was told. OT found one for 300 for me.
Wickedjuggalo, I was going to try to get ahold of you today. I saw your post on the world forum and you described the same exact issue I experienced and wanted to see what your thoughts were. Thanks for the reply. I am defintely going to try and use a tranny jack. When you say matching isn't good, just to clarify, you mean not to use the donor differential with the exsisting pinion. Correct? I don't think this will be possible anyhow as the teeth are probablly messed up. Any other advice on the differential swap out?

Sonny
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  #6  
Old 11-13-2008, 02:48 PM
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Re: Front Differential (Backlash)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Claret View Post
What I am getting from you is remove the diff. case and then use the same pinion from the donor transmission as well as the shims. Any other advice?
That about sums it up... Just take the entire pinion shaft, shims, and diff housing from the donor trans. You'll need to remove the tail housing/reduction gears to get the shaft out. I would use the white lithium grease method to ensure you have a good match, it's quick and easy. Here's a good thread explaining in more detail. http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=42771
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  #7  
Old 11-13-2008, 04:41 PM
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Cool Re: Front Differential (Backlash)

Rather than using "grease" - I use "Engineers Blue" that way you can easily SEE where the contact points are (hence the potential wear points) - done 3 LSDs this way + 2 others that were non-lsd.

Steve in NZ
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  #8  
Old 11-13-2008, 06:47 PM
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Re: Front Differential (Backlash)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Claret View Post
Wickedjuggalo, I was going to try to get ahold of you today. I saw your post on the world forum and you described the same exact issue I experienced and wanted to see what your thoughts were. Thanks for the reply. I am defintely going to try and use a tranny jack. When you say matching isn't good, just to clarify, you mean not to use the donor differential with the exsisting pinion. Correct? I don't think this will be possible anyhow as the teeth are probablly messed up. Any other advice on the differential swap out?

Sonny
If I were you and you wanted to be done in o say a day use a whole lift. It will make the job so much easier. OT (old tom) completed the swap in 6 hours with replacing rear main seal and making a nice trip to Autozone. As far as matching it up I can't comment too much on that but I'd be skeptical to do it. For a few dollars more I was able to get a working trans and front diff together instead of attempting to mess with it. Now I have a spare transmission. Since you are willing and able to tackle this by yourself I'd go ahead and see about using a lift if possible to lift the whole car. I was able to get on Base here and use their Auto Skills shop. Very cheap total cost of tool rentals (trans jack and car lift plus other minor tools) was only 31 dollars.

But no other options it is possible I guess to use jack stands.
Good luck man its definatly not a task for the faint of heart and replace your rear main seal while your at it.
__________________
1994 SVX L - FWD Barcelona Red 190K miles ~ SOLD

1994 SVX LS - 5spd AWD Emerald Green 202k miles PWR Radiator, HID 5000k, New paint job with issues, 17" STI BBS wheels, converted to 5spd AWD from FWD. Purchased from SVXyGirl 2/20/09 -- Undergoing complete rebuild
1993 Justy 4wd 5door- Teal of sorts , beater.
2008 OBXT Newport Pearl 65k miles
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  #9  
Old 11-14-2008, 06:15 AM
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Mr. Claret Mr. Claret is offline
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Re: Front Differential (Backlash)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SURTEESS View Post
Rather than using "grease" - I use "Engineers Blue" that way you can easily SEE where the contact points are (hence the potential wear points) - done 3 LSDs this way + 2 others that were non-lsd.

Steve in NZ
Good idea SURTEESS. I recently used this stuff in a metalurgy class and I can see where your going. Thanks for the post!

Sonny
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  #10  
Old 11-14-2008, 06:26 AM
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Mr. Claret Mr. Claret is offline
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Re: Front Differential (Backlash)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikedjuggalo View Post
If I were you and you wanted to be done in o say a day use a whole lift. It will make the job so much easier. OT (old tom) completed the swap in 6 hours with replacing rear main seal and making a nice trip to Autozone. As far as matching it up I can't comment too much on that but I'd be skeptical to do it. For a few dollars more I was able to get a working trans and front diff together instead of attempting to mess with it. Now I have a spare transmission. Since you are willing and able to tackle this by yourself I'd go ahead and see about using a lift if possible to lift the whole car. I was able to get on Base here and use their Auto Skills shop. Very cheap total cost of tool rentals (trans jack and car lift plus other minor tools) was only 31 dollars.

But no other options it is possible I guess to use jack stands.
Good luck man its definatly not a task for the faint of heart and replace your rear main seal while your at it.

I do plan on trying to talk my boss into letting me use his floor lift to tackle this. He just needs convincing that it will only take a day or two so that it will only take up one of his bays for a saturday and maybe sunday which we are closed. I am going to borrow a tranny jack from another guys I know. The donor tranny is getting delivered to me today and I am going to start tearing into if to get feel of what I am dealing with before I remove the tranny. If this diff doesn't end up lasting me, my other option is pulling the tranny out of the claret I am currently driving. It has like 30-35K on a Subaru rebuild, so it is an option that might happen anyways as I plan on keeping the better of the two.

Another question. I know you say replace the rear seal, what others items should be replaced while I have it apart?
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  #11  
Old 11-14-2008, 06:27 AM
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Mr. Claret Mr. Claret is offline
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Re: Front Differential (Backlash)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxo View Post
That about sums it up... Just take the entire pinion shaft, shims, and diff housing from the donor trans. You'll need to remove the tail housing/reduction gears to get the shaft out. I would use the white lithium grease method to ensure you have a good match, it's quick and easy. Here's a good thread explaining in more detail. http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=42771
Sweet thread. Thanks Maxo!

Sonny
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  #12  
Old 11-14-2008, 07:15 AM
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Wikedjuggalo Wikedjuggalo is offline
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Re: Front Differential (Backlash)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Claret View Post
I do plan on trying to talk my boss into letting me use his floor lift to tackle this. He just needs convincing that it will only take a day or two so that it will only take up one of his bays for a saturday and maybe sunday which we are closed. I am going to borrow a tranny jack from another guys I know. The donor tranny is getting delivered to me today and I am going to start tearing into if to get feel of what I am dealing with before I remove the tranny. If this diff doesn't end up lasting me, my other option is pulling the tranny out of the claret I am currently driving. It has like 30-35K on a Subaru rebuild, so it is an option that might happen anyways as I plan on keeping the better of the two.

Another question. I know you say replace the rear seal, what others items should be replaced while I have it apart?
Go ahead and check your axles before you get it up in the air. See if they need replacing because that's easy while in the air.
__________________
1994 SVX L - FWD Barcelona Red 190K miles ~ SOLD

1994 SVX LS - 5spd AWD Emerald Green 202k miles PWR Radiator, HID 5000k, New paint job with issues, 17" STI BBS wheels, converted to 5spd AWD from FWD. Purchased from SVXyGirl 2/20/09 -- Undergoing complete rebuild
1993 Justy 4wd 5door- Teal of sorts , beater.
2008 OBXT Newport Pearl 65k miles
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