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  #16  
Old 11-09-2007, 04:53 AM
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yes you are correct. Trevor SHould be right guys. One of you stocker 5mt's wanna get at this while I sit back and watch?

Tom
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  #17  
Old 11-09-2007, 01:52 PM
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Trevor
The ECU is smart enough to know straight away if one of the 3 wires is unpluged and the car will run like sh--. I will again got the valve out this morning and check if it is opening slowly as voltage increases and if so I will take photos so you can see for your self what heppens. I think Tom or someone mentioned they though the ECU cuts fuel well I ordered a duty cycle kit for $50 that I can install and it will give me a numrical number for the duty cycle so in my daily drive if the ECE cuts fuel I will see it load and clear. Will get to your other question later in the day.
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX.
1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC)
1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car.
1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation.
1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track.
1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine.
1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough.
Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR.
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  #18  
Old 11-09-2007, 03:10 PM
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Here are the photo I need to correct some thing I said before, I had assumed that the centre wire was the negative when I said the black was for closed I had since found out the centre wire is Pos so the black is the open wire sorry for the confusion. In the potos the red jump lead is pos and the black is neg. I ran the test on the close cycle and took photos but the results are the same. I think you need all thre wires for the unit to function. I will run another test to confirm.
Tony
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 0 Voltage.JPG (172.8 KB, 137 views)
File Type: jpg Voltage just before opening.JPG (168.8 KB, 146 views)
File Type: jpg Partial Opening.JPG (161.6 KB, 146 views)
File Type: jpg Fully open.JPG (160.8 KB, 137 views)
__________________
1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX.
1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC)
1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car.
1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation.
1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track.
1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine.
1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough.
Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR.
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  #19  
Old 11-09-2007, 03:34 PM
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Okay just did another lab test to confirm what I thought you supply power to both side wires the value works by increasing the voltage on one wire only so it taks over. That's why the manual talks about variable votage. I made this little pot but last ime it didn't work because I had the neg & postive around the wrong way. I just retried it and it worked perfectly. It simple switches the voltage down on one wire and up on the other when you turn the pot, in the centre positon it inspite of voltage to both side wires the valve sits in the "At rest position". Now if I want I can totally control the idle from in the car.
Tony
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PICT0389.JPG (139.8 KB, 135 views)
__________________
1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX.
1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC)
1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car.
1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation.
1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track.
1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine.
1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough.
Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR.
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  #20  
Old 11-09-2007, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Dessertrunner View Post
Okay just did another lab test to confirm what I thought you supply power to both side wires the value works by increasing the voltage on one wire only so it taks over. That's why the manual talks about variable votage. I made this little pot but last ime it didn't work because I had the neg & postive around the wrong way. I just retried it and it worked perfectly. It simple switches the voltage down on one wire and up on the other when you turn the pot, in the centre positon it inspite of voltage to both side wires the valve sits in the "At rest position". Now if I want I can totally control the idle from in the car.
Tony
Tony you now have me totally confused.

I can find no reference within the manuals regarding variable voltage.

You say,
“I had assumed that the centre wire was the negative when I said the black was for closed I had since found out the centre wire is Pos so the black is the open wire sorry for the confusion.”
In fact there are two wires which are at negative potential, and a single positive common wire. I remain confused.

I can not discern from the photos, the actual changed position of the valve or the solenoid armature. Please explain what is different between them which shows this movement and differing positions, particularly in regard to partial opening.

What is the orange coloured circular object in your photos to the right of the valve, which looks very much like a coil potted in resin?

What is the resistance value of the dual pot. you are using?
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  #21  
Old 11-09-2007, 05:34 PM
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ok. Now what we need to do is put a resistor in line with the close. This should limit and/or slow the closing of the valve and therefor keep the car from stalling. Anyway you can bench test that??

Tom
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  #22  
Old 11-09-2007, 06:39 PM
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Tom I did try this but the dame computer picked up it was being conned and the engine won't run properly. I can't bench test the ECU actions. Defintely open to suggestions may be I did it the wrong way so tell me what you are thinking.
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX.
1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC)
1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car.
1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation.
1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track.
1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine.
1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough.
Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR.
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  #23  
Old 11-09-2007, 06:44 PM
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I am thinking more or less that it would read properly yet impede the closing of the valve

Tom
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  #24  
Old 11-09-2007, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TomsSVX View Post
I am thinking more or less that it would read properly yet impede the closing of the valve

Tom
Tom, I think you are correct. I am awaiting answers to my last post with special interest.
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As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit!
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  #25  
Old 11-09-2007, 07:07 PM
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I measured the resistance of the close side of the coil and then put a resister between that wire and the centre to make the ECu think that the load was still there but what happened was the ECU picked up that I was screwing with it.
Trevor haven't forgotten your question for start,
The orange thing is the solded roll to hold the coil in a positon to be able to take a good photo.
I have attached 3 more photos so you can see exactly the part of the valve that moves then it should be easier for you to see what is happening in the first images.
The valve I think works on the princpal that the ECU doesn't assume that a give voltage will give a given open of close position but instead moes the voltages of the two wires to get the disired RPM. What I think happens is that the ECU has operation ranges that it works with in from the program coding but with out the load of the Auto oil being pumped around any change is two extreme.

My guess to come to terms with what I saying you are going to have to accept that this valve opens and closes on voltage change not by a "modulated signal" untill we can agree that that is how it works we aren't going any where.
Will you belevie me if we put a scope on the wire from the ECU to prove it.
Hope that more clearly explained it.
__________________
1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX.
1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC)
1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car.
1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation.
1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track.
1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine.
1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough.
Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR.
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  #26  
Old 11-09-2007, 07:18 PM
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Fogot photos again
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 0 Voltage close.jpg (74.0 KB, 122 views)
File Type: jpg Valve Open close .jpg (78.2 KB, 134 views)
File Type: jpg Valve closed close copy.jpg (61.8 KB, 120 views)
__________________
1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX.
1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC)
1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car.
1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation.
1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track.
1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine.
1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough.
Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR.
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  #27  
Old 11-09-2007, 10:37 PM
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Tony,

What I see is a valve turned by a rotary solenoid, and three fixed positions are shown.

Your first photo, labelled, “0 voltage closed.” Shows the valve in the mid, i.e. the rest and half open position.

The second photo labelled, “Valve Open close.” Shows the valve held fully open.

The third photo labelled, “Valve closed close copy.” Shows the valve held fully closed.

You have shown the valve in three fixed positions, exactly as I have described as being the sequence of operation.

The previous set of photos showing the meter in circuit, shows exactly the same three fixed valve positions.

You have in no way shown that the valve can be held at a varying degree of opening, between rest and fully open, by means of a variable direct voltage. This is the requirement in order to provide an adjustable orifice, such that idle speed can be constantly adjusted to a steady fixed engine speed, regardless of load.

You claim that by using a potentiometer and DC, you have been able to hold the valve in variable partly open positions. Again I ask what is the resistance value of dual potentiometer you are using?

Meantime I stand by my assessment regarding the method of control being used. After I have a few pressing jobs off my plate, I will try to get hold of a valve from a local used parts outfit and check things first hand.
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As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit!
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  #28  
Old 11-09-2007, 11:39 PM
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Trevor I have no idea how I can show you the valve is variable with voltage in a photo and you are determined to not take my word for it so.
I give Up trying to explain.
Tony
__________________
1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX.
1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC)
1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car.
1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation.
1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track.
1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine.
1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough.
Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR.
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  #29  
Old 11-10-2007, 01:56 AM
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Trevor I have no idea how I can show you the valve is variable with voltage in a photo and you are determined to not take my word for it so.
I give Up trying to explain.
Tony
Simply adjust the voltage so the the valve is in an intermediate position between rest and fully open. Not hard to cheat if necessary.

You claim that by using a potentiometer and DC, you have been able to hold the valve in variable partly open positions. Again and again I ask what is the resistance value of the dual potentiometer you are using?
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Trevor, New Zealand.

As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit!
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  #30  
Old 11-10-2007, 04:53 AM
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Trevor the photos I posted this morning had a partial open photo. There were 4 photos 0 v was at rest position and then the next three had higher voltage and with each the valve opened a bit more. One of these images shows a intermediate position as you request and if you check the voltage metter you can see it is less then the voltage for the fully open valve image.
The pot size is not that big a issues as they only are used to check if my theory worked. They are 10K.
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX.
1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC)
1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car.
1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation.
1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track.
1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine.
1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough.
Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR.
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