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  #46  
Old 12-15-2018, 07:56 PM
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Re: Trunk Fuel Resistor

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Originally Posted by theflystyle View Post
Trevor,

I hope there isn't a misunderstanding. I never intended to say you were wrong or that I was looking to say that you were. I was simply replying to the questions that were asked of me.

There is another tidbit of information that I wanted to share through my troubleshooting today. As my car is a garage queen and sits during unfavorable weather, it is connected to a battery maintainer. This trickle charger has an LED indicator stating if its charging (Red) or full (Green). While the car has been inoperable I have noticed the charger flashing red more then it does typically. I didn't put it together until tonight when I had the car sitting with the module (and resistor for what it's worth at this point) disconnected from the car. Now the battery charger has been sitting at fully charged for hours with no drop back to charging. Does this align with the module being the issue? I presume it could also be the wiring to the module but I have not yet followed that path. The wiring harness combines with the security system hardware then quickly goes deep behind the trunk liner and then seats.
Be very sure that I did not intend to include you in my generalised comments and am sincerely sorry that you assumed that you were included. As I said before, a Christian name would confirm friendship. LOL

The experience with the charger indicates that a permanent load had been connected across the battery and you have wisely presented an interesting observation. The fuel pump relay coil is is isolated when the ignition is off. However the control system continues to receive a positive battery supply when the contacts are closed.

Therefore this could indicate that the relay sometimes sticks and does dot open and shut off the current. If this occurs the pump could be unwittingly left running and this would impose a continuous load on the resistor causing it to overheat slowly, bind its conducting particles and reduce its resistance. This constitutes a logical issue which must be taken into account. The relay switches a highly inductive and critical load which makes this scenario very likely.

P.S. The resistor permanently in series with the pump reduces the highly inductive load switched by the pump relay. If the resistor gradually deteriorates in respect of its resistance, a point could be reached whereby the relay contacts tend to weld together

Clap hands and congratulate yourself for being so diligent with your observations.

You have your head screwed on so get hold of four cheap as,10 watt 5 ohm wire wound resistors, twist the pigtails together in series, lash the up to the plug and play. You can check them for heat and decide on the best way to make up a permanent set up. If they run too hot, an alternative arrangement will not prove too difficult. Piece of piss as my mates down this way would describe it. LOL

Special regards, Trevor.
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Last edited by Trevor; 12-18-2018 at 01:39 PM. Reason: P.S. Added
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  #47  
Old 12-15-2018, 08:08 PM
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Re: Trunk Fuel Resistor

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Originally Posted by DallasSVX92 View Post
On a side note, I've been having trouble with this same part. If its plugged in, car wont start. If I unplug it, car will start. I pulled another one off a junk yard svx and still in the same spot.
It would appear that both resistors are faulty and have dropped in value such that they become a virtual short circuit so that the pimp runs at near full speed, regardless of the PWM contyrol system. All of this appears weird, but the facts as presented are difficult to deny and it brings about the interesting question as to exactly why the parts car was junked. Did a frustrating fuel pump problem which could not be fixed, decide its fate ?

Please, for the sake of science check the resistors and report back.
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Last edited by Trevor; 12-16-2018 at 07:26 PM. Reason: addition.
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  #48  
Old 12-18-2018, 06:14 AM
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Re: Trunk Fuel Resistor

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Originally Posted by DallasSVX92 View Post
On a side note, I've been having trouble with this same part. If its plugged in, car wont start. If I unplug it, car will start. I pulled another one off a junk yard svx and still in the same spot.
By "it", do you mean the resistor or the modulator?
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  #49  
Old 12-19-2018, 06:40 AM
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Re: Trunk Fuel Resistor

Just wanted to say I haven't forgotten about this thread and I want to keep updating it. With the holidays its a little harder to get some free time to go into the garage but I do have the second-hand module and resistor being delivered today.
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  #50  
Old 12-19-2018, 12:08 PM
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Re: Trunk Fuel Resistor

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Originally Posted by theflystyle View Post
Just wanted to say I haven't forgotten about this thread and I want to keep updating it. With the holidays its a little harder to get some free time to go into the garage but I do have the second-hand module and resistor being delivered today.
Special thanks, this thread is proving very valuable as it has disclosed an otherwise unknown scenario.

You must in particular check the second-hand resistor before using it and ensure that it is correct and as per label and measures 20 ohms, or within a tolerance of say 10%.
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Last edited by Trevor; 12-19-2018 at 02:01 PM. Reason: Addition.
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  #51  
Old 12-20-2018, 06:22 AM
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Re: Trunk Fuel Resistor

Quick question. I happened to find this (see attached) piece of wire, likely a grounding strap on the floor next to the car. It was on the floor in front of the drivers wheel. Does this look familiar to anyone? Could it be just a coincidence?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20181220_081853.jpg (633.0 KB, 293 views)
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Last edited by theflystyle; 12-20-2018 at 06:26 AM.
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  #52  
Old 12-20-2018, 01:55 PM
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Re: Trunk Fuel Resistor

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Originally Posted by theflystyle View Post
Quick question. I happened to find this (see attached) piece of wire, likely a grounding strap on the floor next to the car. It was on the floor in front of the drivers wheel. Does this look familiar to anyone? Could it be just a coincidence?
Good that you are covering all possibilities.

John SVXCESS years ago very kindly sent me a US electrical manual and checking this indicates that what appears to be black/red colour coding, rules it out as a ground point connector, which certainly appears to be its likely function. Furthermore the wiring diagram you have provided likewise doe not show any likely connection associated with the problem you have.
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  #53  
Old 12-21-2018, 05:02 AM
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Re: Trunk Fuel Resistor

That wire looks like a transmission ground wire from a Subaru that is not the SVX. The transmission ground in the SVX actually has a connector in the middle of it, but the other Subaru models did not get the connector. The ground wire runs from the bell housing of the transmission where the pitchstop mounts to the firewall where the pitchstop mounts.
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  #54  
Old 12-21-2018, 09:05 PM
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Re: Trunk Fuel Resistor

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Originally Posted by Tireiron View Post
That wire looks like a transmission ground wire from a Subaru that is not the SVX. The transmission ground in the SVX actually has a connector in the middle of it, but the other Subaru models did not get the connector. The ground wire runs from the bell housing of the transmission where the pitchstop mounts to the firewall where the pitchstop mounts.
Thats odd. I have no other car, yet alone Subaru park in that spot in the garage. I have not yet gone under the car to inspect where this part "dropped" from but you just added to my list of items that I can not explain.

So it seems I am losing my mind...

The replacement parts arrived and I inspected them as I inspected the original parts on my car. The resistor measured the same and the module passed the same continuity checks that I placed the original part through. I installed the second-hand parts and verified that the car started as expected. I should mention prior to installing the replacement parts I had installed the original parts back on the car to see if anything changed. The car started with its original module and resistor on the first try .

All of this has really made me scratch my head and wonder if the resistor/module was just a red herring. Between the battery trickle charger's odd behavior and this wire that fell from the car, I am really wondering if it is another electrical issue somewhere else.

I tested the ground on the bracket holding both the fuel control module and the fuel resistor and it tested fine with my multi-meter. I also tested the pins from the resistor to the fuel control module and it also seemed without issue.

I even checked all the fuses in the engine bay and interior kick-panel fuse boxes with my Fuse Circuit Tester. Nothing reported any draw when the car was not running.

I am really at a loss.
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  #55  
Old 12-22-2018, 01:31 AM
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Re: Trunk Fuel Resistor

Flysyle,

(1) You advise "the module passed the same continuity checks that I placed the original part through." I presume that by "module" you mean "modulator". I can not find any previous reference to this check. The modulator should only pass current and show continuity when switched on via the ECU as it constitutes a solid state relay. Please provide details regarding this continuity check.

(2) You also advise "I tested the ground on the bracket holding both the fuel control module and the fuel resistor". Was/is the metal modulator/resistor assembly still hanging unmounted or is it now bolted in place and solidly connected to ground ?

(3) You advise " I have not yet gone under the car to inspect where this part "dropped" from but you just added to my list of items that I can not explain. Could this item be involved in the grounding and have become detached when you removed the modulator/resistor assembly ?

(4) Have you at any time checked the original resistor for a short circuit between its plug connections and its metal case which should become grounded ? I keep pressing for this information for a good reason.
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Last edited by Trevor; 12-22-2018 at 08:30 PM. Reason: n.
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  #56  
Old 12-28-2018, 11:41 AM
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Re: Trunk Fuel Resistor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
Flysyle,

(1) You advise "the module passed the same continuity checks that I placed the original part through." I presume that by "module" you mean "modulator". I can not find any previous reference to this check. The modulator should only pass current and show continuity when switched on via the ECU as it constitutes a solid state relay. Please provide details regarding this continuity check.

(2) You also advise "I tested the ground on the bracket holding both the fuel control module and the fuel resistor". Was/is the metal modulator/resistor assembly still hanging unmounted or is it now bolted in place and solidly connected to ground ?

(3) You advise " I have not yet gone under the car to inspect where this part "dropped" from but you just added to my list of items that I can not explain. Could this item be involved in the grounding and have become detached when you removed the modulator/resistor assembly ?

(4) Have you at any time checked the original resistor for a short circuit between its plug connections and its metal case which should become grounded ? I keep pressing for this information for a good reason.
First post-holiday update. Sorry for the delay

1. Yes, I meant the modulator. The continuity check consisted of opening the modulator and checking that each plug ping (four in total) beeped when touching the solder point on the circuit board.

2. I checked both. With everything disconnected as well as attached to the car & bracket.

3. Unlikely as its at the front of the car by the engine while all the fuel components (modulator and resistor) are in the trunk.

4. I am not sure how to actually perform that check.

I also wanted to mention with more testing:
  • There is continuity between the positive side (as labeled on the plug) on the resistor and the other on the bracket.
  • There is continuity between the resistor pin and the corresponding modulator pin

With those two tests I believe the wiring between the two (modulator and resistor) are not an issue.

Thanks again!
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Last edited by theflystyle; 12-28-2018 at 12:09 PM.
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  #57  
Old 12-29-2018, 02:51 AM
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Re: Trunk Fuel Resistor

First post-holiday update. Sorry for the delay

Not a problem and as expected due to the festive season. LOL

In all of this I hope that you have a printed copy of the wiring diagram so while actually on the job, you can trace and understand what is involved.

1. Yes, I meant the modulator. The continuity check consisted of opening the modulator and checking that each plug ping (four in total) beeped when touching the solder point on the circuit board.

OK. You tested for faulty solder joints between the pins and the circuit board. Worthwhile as automatic wave soldering often misses connections to substantial components requiring extra heat.

2. I checked both. With everything disconnected as well as attached to the car & bracket.

My question was:-
 You also advise "I tested the ground on the bracket holding both the fuel control module and the fuel resistor". Was/is the metal modulator/resistor assembly still hanging unmounted or is it now bolted in place and solidly connected to ground ?

You advise that the bracket was attached to the car but I repeat, was the bracket solidly connected to ground ? Also refer (3) below.

3. Unlikely as its at the front of the car by the engine while all the fuel components (modulator and resistor) are in the trunk.

My question (3) was:-
 You advise " I have not yet gone under the car to inspect where this part "dropped" from but you just added to my list of items that I can not explain. Could this item be involved in the grounding and have become detached when you removed the modulator/resistor assembly ?

Everything involved here is unlikely, therefore only positive evidence can be considered. I repeat, could this item be involved in the grounding and have become detached when you removed the modulator/resistor assembly ?

Was, or was not, the bracket solidly connected to ground ? Also now refer (2) above and (5) below.

4. I am not sure how to actually perform that check.

My question (4) was:-
 Have you at any time checked the original resistor for a short circuit between its plug connections and its metal case which should become grounded ? I keep pressing for this information for a good reason.

A short circuit constitutes an unwanted circuit and a connection which should not be taking place and as a result comprises a fault condition. Therefore you check the resistor for possible continuity between its normal connections and its outer mounting case. It is important that the plug and therefore all external connections are removed during the test. Check with an ohmmeter set for a high a resistance in order to show any possible connection between either and both plug pins and the case. You are testing for a possible high resistance rather than a low resistance as when checking for faulty continuity.

You are testing for possible continuity or even partial continuity, between the inner resistor element and its case, as this would ground the pump and cause it to run continuously unmodulated at full speed. Even if the short circuit is of high resistance this can change as a result of heat during its operation. It would be preferable to use a proper insulation tester operating at an increased voltage, but in this instance an ohmmeter will suffice.

I also wanted to mention with more testing:
There is continuity between the positive side (as labeled on the plug) on the resistor and the other on the bracket.
There is continuity between the resistor pin and the corresponding modulator pin


I am unable to reconcile your reference to “corresponding” pins when a four pin and a two pin connector is uninvolved, particularly as different pin numbers are connected. However I will presume that with the interconnecting wring tested unplugged, that this is providing correct continuity.

(5) I now present a further important test. Note previous question (2) and refer to the diagram you have posted. Make very sure that when everything is bolted in place but with both plugs disconnected, that there is a solid ground connection to resistor plug pin (1) and also modulator plug pin (2). Test against several body points for good measure. The diagram shows the ground point which must be proven to be reliable.

P.S.

Further possibilities can be taken into account, but only after all the suggested tests have been completed and finalised.

If and when the resistor is removed, the modulator will switch the total current delivered to the pump motor and which then involves a high inrush on start up. It could be that the modulator output transistor is not capable of switching this rather nasty inductive load and therefore could fail, in which event the pump motor would never run at full speed.

One would expect the designers to have taken this possibility into account, but in fact they may have not done so. In which case experimenting by removing the resistor as has been reported, could have damaged all of the alternative modulators being used during testing.

Testing the modulators as individual units is not that difficult for someone with electronic knowledge, but otherwise there is the danger in destroying the driver transistor, particularly as the trigger voltage is unknown and it is likely that the input is simply switched to ground. Furthermore the illustration in the wiring diagram is probably figurative rather than exact.

An obvious crude test test will involve removing both monitor and resistor plugs and the bridging the resistor plug so that the pump motor runs continuously at full speed and then observing the pump and engine response. It is obvious that fuel pressure testing would disclose a lot but is not feasible under the circumstances.

Difficult one to sort and it will surely take until the end of the year, but patience will win the day. LOL
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Last edited by Trevor; 12-30-2018 at 02:08 PM. Reason: PS Added
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  #58  
Old 01-06-2019, 12:54 PM
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Re: Trunk Fuel Resistor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
Everything involved here is unlikely, therefore only positive evidence can be considered. I repeat, could this item be involved in the grounding and have become detached when you removed the modulator/resistor assembly ?
* The modulator and resistor is in the trunk of the car. The found cable was found under the front of the car. After checking what I could under the car, nothing seemed to be amiss or obviously missing a cable such as the one that I found.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
Was, or was not, the bracket solidly connected to ground ? Also now refer (2) above and (5) below.
* The bracket is solidly connected to ground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
My question (4) was:-
 Have you at any time checked the original resistor for a short circuit between its plug connections and its metal case which should become grounded ? I keep pressing for this information for a good reason.
* There is NO continuity between the metal casing of the resistor and the bracket (and other ground points in the trunk). This was tested as you suggested with the resistor attached to the bracket, with the resistor plug disconnected from any connections. This was just using my basic multi-meter with the audible beep check enabled. With the resistor connected to the wiring harness, there is continuity between the metal casing and car/ground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
Make very sure that when everything is bolted in place but with both plugs disconnected, that there is a solid ground connection to resistor plug pin (1) and also modulator plug pin (2). Test against several body points for good measure. The diagram shows the ground point which must be proven to be reliable.
* So with both the resistor and modulator unplugged and bolted to the car:
  • The pin/plug on the modulator has continuity to many ground points on the car.
  • The pin/plug on the resistor has NO continuity with any ground points on the car. I tried both the original resistor on the car when the problems started as well as the second-hand replacement I ordered during this troubleshooting ordeal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
In which case experimenting by removing the resistor as has been reported, could have damaged all of the alternative modulators being used during testing.
* This really scares me and I hope it is not the case
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  #59  
Old 01-06-2019, 01:24 PM
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Re: Trunk Fuel Resistor

So in addition to the previous post results (hopefully coherent) I had a chance to discuss this issue in person with a few people. While repeating the story I seemed to recall more specific information that I wanted to share here. I do not know if this is relevant but I rather post everything I can rather than holding back any tidbit that I may think is important.

The two times the car died while driving, the car had a quarter of a tank of gas or less. As you know the SVX does not have the most accurate fuel gauge, especially when fuel is closer to empty. Another is the car died near immediately after taking a sharp turn.

The reason I mention the fuel level is because of the car dying after turns. Is it possible there is a fuel delivery issue within the fuel tank? Could the pump be unable to properly supply fuel after turns?

I am hesitant to think this is the issue because of the fact the car did not start for hours after the last time it died. That would have been more than enough time for the fuel to level itself in the tank and be usable by the pump.
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2008 Legacy 3.0R
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Old 01-06-2019, 02:08 PM
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Re: Trunk Fuel Resistor

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Originally Posted by theflystyle View Post
* The modulator and resistor is in the trunk of the car. The found cable was found under the front of the car. After checking what I could under the car, nothing seemed to be amiss or obviously missing a cable such as the one that I found.

* The bracket is solidly connected to ground.

* There is NO continuity between the metal casing of the resistor and the bracket (and other ground points in the trunk). This was tested as you suggested with the resistor attached to the bracket, with the resistor plug disconnected from any connections. This was just using my basic multi-meter with the audible beep check enabled. With the resistor connected to the wiring harness, there is continuity between the metal casing and car/ground.

I specifically advised:- "Check with an ohmmeter set for a high a resistance in order to show any possible connection between either and both plug pins and the case. You are testing for a possible high resistance rather than a low resistance as when checking for faulty continuity.
You are testing for possible continuity or even partial continuity, between the inner resistor element and its case, as this would ground the pump and cause it to run continuously unmodulated at full speed. Even if the short circuit is of high resistance this can change as a result of heat during its operation. It would be preferable to use a proper insulation tester operating at an increased voltage, but in this instance an ohmmeter will suffice."

* So with both the resistor and modulator unplugged and bolted to the car:
  • The pin/plug on the modulator has continuity to many ground points on the car.
  • The pin/plug on the resistor has NO continuity with any ground points on the car. I tried both the original resistor on the car when the problems started as well as the second-hand replacement I ordered during this troubleshooting ordeal.

Refer above regarding specific instructions for testing for a high resistance to ground.

* This really scares me and I hope it is not the case

Please refer notes inserted above. Whatever, you will have to hope and accept that a short circuit is not involved.

You have now lost me and I have no idea as to exactly what is the current situation as earlier you advised that the car started. I must therefore leave you to your own devices.

Best of luck, Trevor.
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