New Mustang Commercial

[SubaSteevo]

Originally posted by Shadow248

In my experience, NO ONE likes the new Mustang. Oh wait, I do know one guy...he has a 2002 GT, he likes it. Other than that, the only people i know that like the new design are on the other side of magazines and TV screens..

The 02 Mustang is not the new mustang now is it? I love the new Mustang design, if it wasn't a hunk of crap, I'd buy one.

[drivemusicnow]

Originally posted by Shadow248



Yes I am biased toward GM products, just as Alan is biased towards Porsche and the large part of this board is biased towards Subaru. However, I do take a 99% objective approach to this sort of argument. Here's the facts...

C6 vs. 911 - C6 was cheaper and still won.

04 GTO vs. 04 Stang - Stang was cheaper and LOST.

05 GTO vs. 05 Stang - Stang was cheaper and LOST.

So, in conclusion, looking at the results of the performance of these cars, you can't really say i'm biased (not knowing me). Obviously if I was talking simply about which one I like better because "I just like it better", that would be a different story.

Thanks for playing, feel free to try again (cause i know you will).

At least i actually said the slight testing bias. but it was NEW models that came out within about the same time frame. GM just realized that they were lacking in power..

and what will you say when teh SVT mustang comes out and is still lower in price than the gto and completely stomps it.

Face it. the GTO, while IMO a good car, is overpriced, for what it is. just like the Porsche, while a great car, is still overpriced.

its the same thing! they are ALL good cars. and great in their own niche.

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Shadow248 You know I really love hearing your opinions, but they're getting very predictable. Try something different for once. Like facts.

i drove a friends '90 Vette back when i had the '87 928. not even a comparison - the Vette was sloppy, and fit and finish was laughable. handling was NOT even close. these were both stock cars. my paint looked as good as when it left the showroom floor, and, well - you know how wonderful GM's paint jobs are. you can play internet armchair car critic, but i doubt you've ever drove anything other than a GM, or your fanboi status would have been revoked.

try again.

[Royal Tiger]

I'm having trouble only because I see valid points from everyone. Think how great a $90k Vette would be. How awesome would it be to get a 911 for $40k. Chevy packs a TON of performance into the Vette, and at prices that are hard to believe. But there is a trade off. It will never be able to upmarket the Vette (see VW Phaeton) to a level equal to the Porsche. Porsche can't make a $40k car that would give the perception of "bringing down the mark" (see BMW 318ti). These are cars that compete because of similarities in performance, but are meant for vastly different clientel. Alan makes a great point here. The 87-92 928 S4 kills a Vette of the same age in quality, fit and finish, ride, etc... The are both RWD, front engine, water cooled V-8's, but were NEVER crossed shopped by buyers of each. Can't we agree and get back to what we all love so dearly? ford BASHING!!!!!

[SVXer95]

Porsche makes a $40k car, its called the Boxter. Nowhere near the performance of the vette, but has a lot of potential. Look for a Boxster coupe coming out soon.

[SVXer95]

Porsche has always made entry level cars. Making an affordable model has been part of their mantra since the beggining. Look at the 924, 931, 944, 951, 968. The list goes on and on. Some of these cars had phenomenal performance and even greater potential. Fit and finish is still Porsche. I haven't seen a vette that I liked until the C6. Finally an interior that is different and has some quality to it.

[Landshark]

Originally posted by PA_SVX
I'm having trouble only because I see valid points from everyone. Think how great a $90k Vette would be. How awesome would it be to get a 911 for $40k. Chevy packs a TON of performance into the Vette, and at prices that are hard to believe. But there is a trade off. It will never be able to upmarket the Vette (see VW Phaeton) to a level equal to the Porsche. Porsche can't make a $40k car that would give the perception of "bringing down the mark" (see BMW 318ti). These are cars that compete because of similarities in performance, but are meant for vastly different clientel. Alan makes a great point here. The 87-92 928 S4 kills a Vette of the same age in quality, fit and finish, ride, etc... The are both RWD, front engine, water cooled V-8's, but were NEVER crossed shopped by buyers of each. Can't we agree and get back to what we all love so dearly? ford BASHING!!!!!

yeah, the Vette is a great value now that GM apparently has decided that poor quality control and tupperware interiors aren't competitive anymore. i can't get past the hacked-off rearend, but that's just a personal opinion.

so let's try this yet again - the Corvette is a great car, but to compare it to the 911 is dumb. they are two different cars with different ways of going fast, marketed to different people.

if i had the means to buy a new 911, would i buy the Vette instead, because it is a better value? hell no! if you can afford it, why eat at McDonald's?

exclusivity factors into the equation. mass-produced C6 Vettes will be all over the place shortly (along with the Mustangs, SRT-4's, etc.), just as the C5's are now. same reason some people will buy an SVX over a Neon or Cavalier. you get a good feeling from driving something a little different, just as you do from a powerful or great handling car. face it, you aren't going to be going WOT or tearing around corners during most of your daily driving. why not feel good about your car, especially if you can afford it?

[Landshark]

Originally posted by SVXer95
Porsche has always made entry level cars. Making an affordable model has been part of their mantra since the beggining. Look at the 924, 931, 944, 951, 968. The list goes on and on. Some of these cars had phenomenal performance and even greater potential. Fit and finish is still Porsche. I haven't seen a vette that I liked until the C6. Finally an interior that is different and has some quality to it.

912, too.

[Shadow248]

Originally posted by drivemusicnow
At least i actually said the slight testing bias. but it was NEW models that came out within about the same time frame. GM just realized that they were lacking in power..

A bit unfair I think. To think, the outcry that would have come from me comparing a C6 Vette to a 2003 911. Sheesh.

Originally posted by drivemusicnow
and what will you say when teh SVT mustang comes out and is still lower in price than the gto and completely stomps it.

Actually I will say "good job ford" when they finally get the mess that is the new generation Cobra sorted out. Won't be too soon sorry to say. Of course I would expect it to be compared to the GTO Judge, which could have as much as 500hp. Won't be any stomping there.

Originally posted by drivemusicnow
Face it. the GTO, while IMO a good car, is overpriced, for what it is. just like the Porsche, while a great car, is still overpriced.

Well I have to honestly say I disagree. I think, in this comparison, it is more that the Mustang is "underpriced". Compare the GTO to alot of cars in it's performance "envelope" and you'll find it's among the cheapest. So yeah, i'm going with the opinion that the Mustang is cheaper than it needs to be. Not that I think it should sell for more, but that I think it could sell for more.

Originally posted by Landshark
i drove a friends '90 Vette back when i had the '87 928. not even a comparison - the Vette was sloppy, and fit and finish was laughable. handling was NOT even close. these were both stock cars. my paint looked as good as when it left the showroom floor, and, well - you know how wonderful GM's paint jobs are. you can play internet armchair car critic, but i doubt you've ever drove anything other than a GM, or your fanboi status would have been revoked.

Opinionator 2!!!!

Glad to see you haven't left us. Fit and finish, as always with you, is a matter of opinion. As for handling, both Car & Driver and Road & Track disagreed whole heartedly with you. Not that I find them to be particularly reliable, but in this case I think i'll take the established periodical over the Porsche fanatic.

I learned to drive in a Porsche 944 Turbo S, which, was to say, a piece of junk. I've driven my cousin's 1998 Boxster on many occasions, and I was still not inspired by it's various rattles and yawn inspiring interior. Though I must say I was very excited to drive my buddy's uncle's 2001 911 (he owns a porsche dealer) to pick up lunch one day, only to find that I liked the Boxster better.

If there is one thing I can say I really hate about Porsche is their interiors. A Hyundai Sonata looks and feels like a lexus inside when you compare it to just about any porsche. Even my brother's automotive design teacher uses Porsche interior designs as a "what not to do" example (he just told me that today in fact).

Originally posted by Landshark
so let's try this yet again - the Corvette is a great car, but to compare it to the 911 is dumb. they are two different cars with different ways of going fast, marketed to different people.

I will agree that the Porsche buyer and Vette buyer are generally very different.

Originally posted by Landshark
if i had the means to buy a new 911, would i buy the Vette instead, because it is a better value? hell no! if you can afford it, why eat at McDonald's?

Even if you could afford it, why would you eat at an expensive place when you like the food better at the cheaper place?

Originally posted by Landshark
exclusivity factors into the equation. mass-produced C6 Vettes will be all over the place shortly (along with the Mustangs, SRT-4's, etc.), just as the C5's are now. same reason some people will buy an SVX over a Neon or Cavalier. you get a good feeling from driving something a little different, just as you do from a powerful or great handling car. face it, you aren't going to be going WOT or tearing around corners during most of your daily driving. why not feel good about your car, especially if you can afford it?

Absolutely, but here we are back at opinion again.

I would not "feel good about my car" if I was driving a car that is generally associated with small penis compensation. Nor would I be able to live with myself if I spent 80g's on a car only to be outdone by one that's almost half the price.

That's my perspective. As I said, it is all a matter of opinion.

[Royal Tiger]

What I meant to say was a $40k 911. And the Boxster is not like a vette, as it's a mid engine convertible with a coupe coming soon. I have also seen the prices of those and they are in the $50k's. You can't compare the 914 to the vette either. And one reason Porsche stopping making cheaper cars is because they didn't sell and hurt the brand image. Seen any $50k new Ferrari's or Lambo's?

[immortal_suby]

Originally posted by Shadow248

I would not "feel good about my car" if I was driving a car that is generally associated with small penis compensation.

But all of the cars mentioned fall into a compensation category. Vettes are for bald guys with tiny units, Porsches for yuppies with tiny units,..

If hyundai made a car that performed identically to the vette and priced it 5k less, still alot of people would not want to admit they payed for one or drive one due to the loss of prestige in driving a hyndai.


Same goes for many in vette vs. porsche - A vette just doesn't have the class that a porsche does.

A vette says, I saved up all mah pennies for a mass produced vette.
A porsche says, I made it.

[Shadow248]

Originally posted by immortal_suby
A vette says, I saved up all mah pennies for a mass produced vette.
A porsche says, I made it.

Perspective.

A different one:

Vette says - I worked hard enough to earn this car, and I deserve it. (Or "I made it")
Porsche says - My dad got me a job at his lawfirm and I can't get a woman so I got a Porsche. (Or "I've been made")

That works too.

[Royal Tiger]

Let's stop the childness. The two people in HS that drove Vettes were daddies boys. The hard workers drove old muscle cars. This was prior to the "tuner" era. You will never be able to acuratly compare them. This reminds me of that horrible ford commercial from the late 80's (see ford bashing). The guy says he could afford a Mercedes E Class ($50-60k) but instead he bought a new Taurus ($16-20k). Yeah, OK. Why don't we compare the new STS to a Maserati Quatroporrte Grand Sport. Both have V-8's and 4 doors. Of course there is a $50k+ price difference. Same thing as Vette vs 911, same layout/niche, but different clintel. Anyone actually think the Maserati buyer shopped a Caddy, at ALL? Can we move on?

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Shadow248

Vette says - mah mullet is thinning out on top, sold teh Camaro/Trans-Am, and got a better job.

fixed that for you.

[Shadow248]

Originally posted by PA_SVX
Let's stop the childness. The two people in HS that drove Vettes were daddies boys. The hard workers drove old muscle cars. This was prior to the "tuner" era. You will never be able to acuratly compare them.

I'm with you on this one. You could throw alot of the insults heard in this thread on either car. My point was quite simply, that OBJECTIVELY the Corvette outperformed the Porsche. Certainly Porsche fans are entitled to some retaliation, I know i'd be mad if a Corvette was outperformed by...um...a Hyundai or something like that. The part that gets me is these people (not necessarily any members here) who are still so diluted as to believe that because something has a higher pricetag, it MUST be better. People like this are really not needed. Pick a car based on what you like, not because you think that the price will get you attention, or make you a better person. If you really like porsche, for good, objective, tangible reasons (not perceived things like build quality and "solidness") then I cannot fault you. However don't try to tell me that a Porsche is just a better car. It's not. I've driven lots of cars that people and even these stupid car mags say are of "high build quality" and I find the same squeaks and rattles and "plastic" that I hear complaints about in supposed "lower quality" cars. My WS6 and even my GTP were as solid and quiet (except for the exhaust, of course) as any luxury vehicle i've been in - this includes BMW, MB, Jaguar, etc. My GTP outlasted a long list of "high quality" automobiles.

Ok i've been over this before 25 billion times and no one cared anyway. Forget it.

Originally posted by Landshark
fixed that for you.

It's a shame really. You used to be such a formidable adversary. An archenemy really. I actually enjoyed our encounters. But your quality has gone downhill alot since those days.

That's the best you can do? Seriously?