BRZ vs Miata

[dbarnblatt]

Originally Posted by icingdeath88

He thinks the BRZ is a chick car. Like a TC or an Eclipse.

Too bad it stuff like this that precedes someone from buying a good car.

[dbarnblatt]

Originally Posted by benebob

Your point is?

I buy my cars used as they sit for much of the time and rot away so me just like 60% of the population doesn't give a crap what a good deal a new car. With your logic that Yugo looks pretty good as a purchase. It was real cheap new.

As far as price, that's where you're wrong. My Lego GT came in at just over $25k new. The one Jag list price was $29995 2 years later so price wise they are VERY close new.

I was thinking of the Legacy 6 speed. The one for $30ish plus change. More comparable to an XJR... but an XJR with a list price of $29995? I'm confused.

The Yugo did sell like gangbusters and ran for a few years. So my point is sort of like that.

You are comparing makes and models in a new market vs. a used market. (I think) And you happen to get a lemon from Subaru. So tell me how does that makes the Legacy a bad car, or the BRZ for that matter?

[Huskymaniac]

And I have yet to see anyone post quality and reliability data or even bluebook data on prices to support their hatred of Subaru. All I hear is one person talking about one experience.

Saying something doesn't make it so.

I had the worst Outback in terms of being the most likely to blow a headgasket. The car was free of HG leaks at 160k miles and 14 years of age. As an engineer I have learned a bit about reliability and know it is a statistical parameter and not a yes or no deal. Just because one person had a bad experience doesn't make it definite or even likely for anyone else. At the same time, if one person doesn't experience a "failure in time" (FIT) doesn't mean that other people won't. It is all about probabilities and that is why data is needed and not just opinions by people who like to argue.

If someone wants to trash Subaru, they are sure to find kindred spirits to join them. The same can be said about every other car company in the world. What I don't get is why someone would trash Subaru on a Subaru forum. Actually, that's not true. I know very well why they do it. If my SVX catches on fire and my Tribeca throws engine parts through the hood, I promise you that I would have better things to do than carry on an anti-subaru crusade on an SVX forum. I think that is pretty typical. Very few former SVX owners appear to continue to post on this forum and only a couple continually trash old and/or newer Subarus. That's a pretty small number considering how many people seem to have come and gone from this forum. Thank god.....

I will say this Bob, at least Jags aren't ugly cars and have character. Why not just be happy with what you have?

[LetItSnow]

I drove my Miata today. Is this true - you can't even drive the BRZ in Forza?

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by Huskymaniac

If my SVX catches on fire and my Tribeca throws engine parts through the hood.......

Would probably be better if that Subaru Aztek caught fire instead of the SVX ......

[Sean486]

Originally Posted by Landshark

Would probably be better if that Subaru Aztek caught fire instead of the SVX ......

I love the Tribeca and I am not sure why you consider it ugly. I especially like the original grille, but whatever.

[svxfiles]

Originally Posted by Sean486

I love the Tribeca and I am not sure why you consider it ugly. I especially like the original grille, but whatever.

Me too.
In Pearl White.
Readings coming.

[subeman90]

Originally Posted by Sean486

I love the Tribeca and I am not sure why you consider it ugly. I especially like the original grille, but whatever.

same. I like the newer ones a little better. Actually a becca might be my next vehicle.

[1986nate]

Originally Posted by Landshark

Would probably be better if that Subaru Aztek caught fire instead of the SVX ......

I've gotta agree with Alan. They are pretty hideous.

As for reliability, there are going to be cars that are known for reliability and you can get a bad one out of a bunch. The other thing is the fact that reliability and dependability ratings usually don't look further than 100k miles, and many don't even look at things that far out from new. So a Subaru that's lucky to get 150k without a head gasket job, or needing one, does not get registered when many other makes will get to 200k miles with far less repairs and issues.

You can also get a good one out of the bunch from a car that is notoriously unreliable. I have 2 extremely good examples of this. First, and most well known around here is the Caravan I was using. A 98 LWB caravan with the 3.3 and by the time I was "done" with it, was up over 150k miles, still on the original transmission with me clearly doing things that were never intended for the last 20k+ miles. Not just towing, but having the entire van loaded down with parts as well as having the SVX I'm towing loaded up with parts. By all accounts, the original trans shouldn't have even gotten to me at 129k miles.

Another example is my 99.5 A4 1.8t. This is well known for being unreliable. Premature t-belt failures, faulty water pumps, sludge and oil pump issues, etc. I got mine with just over 200k miles and now is up to 206k miles. It has survived my abuse so far which has included towing with a few transmissions in the hatch, as well as having a bit of fun in the pine barrens of New Jersey.

There are many factors, and I for one have seen enough to never want to own or purchase a Subaru with a 2.5L displacement, turbo or N/A as even the turbo engine problems have been well documented.
However, these engines that Subaru are releasing and the BRZ does have, is a completely new family. So no comparison can truly be made between these engines and the troubles of the past. Also, maintenance is a very important factor and often times neglected.

I try to look at things from all perspectives and to be objective, even with something I really like, or don't like. I would never own a Toyota or Honda, but I can't say anything bad about them as I don't care to know anything. What I do know is that historically they are very reliable, and the recent "problems" of Toyota really seem to be conjured up. I won't say my A4 is the best car made, but for me, it's been pretty awesome and does things I need it to and even more.

Let's not make things so personal between a couple of you and try to keep it a little more light hearted

[benebob]

Originally Posted by Sean486

What exactly was your problem with the GT? What year was it and what all went wrong with it that it soured you so much?

03 GT 5 speed
1st CD insert didn't eject the cds. Never got the cds back or compensation for them. Oh and the moron working on the car put a utility knife thru the seat.
200 miles bad second gear (subaru though it was perfectly acceptable to put a reman tranny in it but I won't let that happen as it was a new car).
1000 back in for clutch slipping issues.
3000 miles pass. mirror faded, replaced under warranty.
4500 miles in for peeling paint. Told it was the enviorment. Guess all my other cars I've ever owned live in a different enviroment.
7k, Drinking quite a bit of coolant. (that's normal). Keeping track it was using 3x the amount of any other car in the household. Again was told this was normal in later visits back.
10k tranny removed again for a bad second gear, oil pan leaking
12k radio replaced again for cd issues, valve cover leaking
17k both mirrors replaced again for fading black plastic.
Rest is outside of warranty.
Radio failed yet again, replaced with a junk yard one.
Roof rack developed a crack being used less than a couple times as a bike carrier
Tranny crunch in 2nd returned.
Internal exhaust rattles and nearly rusted through in 5 years time.
Mirrors again fading
Sold at 40k

This doesn't include the horrible fit and finish, misaligned panels, orange peel paint, numerous interior rattles that developed over ownership etc. Car was my wifes so it really got driven hard.

Sure I'm demanding on my cars. I expect them to be in my driveway, not at a stealership. You have seen my cars and the condition they are maintained in even in the dead of winter so I'm sure you can attest that it isn't for a lack of proper care or maint.

Oh and no it isn't just me, my mom's lego just got a new tranny. Always serviced at the dealer including tires, 42k on the odo but out of warranty time wise (05). Subaru did nothing but replace it and bill her. Also, just as with mine, the paint began peeling off the roof around 3 month old (seems I see a lot of the blues that have this same issue) even though Subaru claimed it was an enviromental issue not a paint quality issue therefore not their problem. My fathers Acura doesn't have the same issue and he has never washed the thing.

I've replaced the trannys in all 5 post 94 Subaru I ever owned aside from the OBS I had for a month but there was a receipt for it having been out before I got it. Sadly, I should have learned my lesson after the 2nd but I stood by them for years due to the previous "luck" I had with my EA81s and 82s

[immortal_suby]

Originally Posted by Sean486

I love the Tribeca and I am not sure why you consider it ugly. I especially like the original grille, but whatever.

I really liked our '08 tribeca, but we had the chrysler minivan front end instead of the walrus front end. My brother has a walrus model. It is unique and definitely not for everyone but there are many who really like it. It was a good vehicle in every way except for mileage (around 18 - 20 highway babying it) All around a solid performer for what it was. Didn't have any trouble with it in the ~60k we had it. I don't normally like big vehicles but I did like to drive that thing. It felt solid and confident on the road. The interior was nice.

Come to think of it we didn't have any trouble with our '04 forester turbo in the 4 years we had that either, and at 43k we haven't had the least bit of trouble with our 2010 outback. I still miss that FXT. What a fun little sleeper that was.

[Sean486]

As long as we are talking about reliability, I have to give props to Mazda. The two that we own have been great, and I am very pretty hard on mine.

[subeman90]

well if we are going to piss in the Subaru fountain I have one for you: 04 Forester non-turbo with a blown HG at 9900 miles on a friday night in Charlotte NC (500 miles from home). No help for getting me home from Subaru so I could be at work for monday morning so I came home in a new Jeep.

I miss the Jeep

[subeman90]

Originally Posted by Sean486

As long as we are talking about reliability, I have to give props to Mazda. The two that we own have been great, and I am very pretty hard on mine.

if they put that Skyactiv-D in the CX-5 and send it to the USA then I am gone. I want a diesel.

[Landshark]

05 Legacy GT issues after 6 years:
- O2 sensor heater ckt code - didnt affect driveability, replaced in about 15 minutes
- shifter mechanism broke, my bad, should have had replaced under warranty when i had to press it forward a bit to get the shift lock to disengage, but i lived with it for 3 years and one day it died.
- some interior rattles, fixed myself.

Was running Stage2 and then some about 6 months after purchase, ~310hp, 350ftlbs


05 Forester XT issues after 5 years:
- swaybar endlink broke, replaced in about 20 minutes
- shift cable came loose from tranny
- interior squeaks, fixed.


Cant complain. When i felt like getting a new car, however, Subaru didnt make anything i wanted, or would want to look at sitting in my garage.