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  #1  
Old 09-19-2008, 02:56 AM
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How to test the Crank Angle 1 & 2 and Cam Angle Sensor.

A number of cars are getting a bit of age on them and some are developing new problems such as the 3 sesnors for the angles. I want to find a way to find out which one is giving problems. What happens is that often the ECU can't pick up a code. I had a bad crank angle sensor on my car but never got a code. My wifes car failed to start on cold mornings and it did get a code, (code 29 Crank Angle Sensor). I am working through the suggest methods in the manual but so far none have helped. Any suggests would be greatly appricated.
Tony
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1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC)
1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car.
1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation.
1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track.
1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine.
1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough.
Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR.
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  #2  
Old 09-19-2008, 08:20 AM
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Re: How to test the Crank Angle 1 & 2 and Cam Angle Sensor.

Perhaps the signal can be measured directly from the sensor to see if it's within spec? Connect multimeter and either turn the motor manually or crank with the starter and verify that the numbers are reading correctly.
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  #3  
Old 09-19-2008, 08:30 AM
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Re: How to test the Crank Angle 1 & 2 and Cam Angle Sensor.

My understanding is that you can only check them with an oscilloscope (have to look at their waveform). I really hope someone does figure out an easier way.
-Bill (who just had to replace a crank sensor on his Pearlie because it wouldn't start...)
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  #4  
Old 09-19-2008, 10:47 AM
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Re: How to test the Crank Angle 1 & 2 and Cam Angle Sensor.

The Crank Angle and Cam angle are coils that generate a voltage pulse when the magnetic field in their proximity changes. You have several ways to check them. The simplest one, take a multimeter and measure their resistance. If you see something close to 2.4 Kohm they are OK most likely. If you are there I would suggest to measure the resistance you can see at the harness connector pins. It should be around 90Kohm if I have a good memory. This will prove that the ECU is accessible from the Sensor harness connector.
The more complex way of testing it is with an oscilloscope. If you have one just let me know and I can email you the procedure described in the Subaru Service Manual.
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  #5  
Old 09-19-2008, 02:33 PM
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Re: How to test the Crank Angle 1 & 2 and Cam Angle Sensor.

I have a copy of the manual and am working my way through what it suggests. I have 2 sensors that are bad to try and see if I can distingish them from a good one. I am going the try and make a harness to plug between the ECU and the engine fitted in the engine bay, in that way I can run test with the engine going. Will keep ypu posted.
Tony
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX.
1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC)
1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car.
1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation.
1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track.
1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine.
1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough.
Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR.
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  #6  
Old 09-19-2008, 08:17 PM
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Re: How to test the Crank Angle 1 & 2 and Cam Angle Sensor.

Tony,
The signal generated by the angle sensor crosses two connectors, the harness cable and the input stage of the ECU. If any of these fails the behavior of the car will be virtually the same. Moreover, there is no moving part in this chain, the signal generated by the sensor is not extreme and the sensor itself is quite simple. From this perspective the probability to have a bad sensor rather than a bad ECU for instance shouldn't be much higher... The only problem with the sensor is probably the fact that it's always in a high temperature environment.
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  #7  
Old 09-19-2008, 08:20 PM
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Re: How to test the Crank Angle 1 & 2 and Cam Angle Sensor.

I'm trying to remember, but aren't the crank and cam sensors basically Hall effect devices?
-Bill
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  #8  
Old 09-19-2008, 08:32 PM
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Re: How to test the Crank Angle 1 & 2 and Cam Angle Sensor.

Found it (thank you, Wiki )

Commonly used in distributors for ignition timing (and in some types of crank and camshaft position sensors for injection pulse timing, speed sensing, etc.) the Hall effect sensor is used as a direct replacement for the mechanical breaker points used in earlier automotive applications. Its use as an ignition timing device in various distributor types is as follows. A stationary permanent magnet and semiconductor Hall effect chip are mounted next to each other separated by an air gap, forming the Hall effect sensor. A metal rotor consisting of windows and tabs is mounted to a shaft and arranged so that during shaft rotation, the windows and tabs pass though the air gap between the permanent magnet and semiconductor Hall chip. This effectively shields and exposes the Hall chip to the permanent magnet's field respective to whether a tab or window is passing though the Hall sensor. For ignition timing purposes, the metal rotor will have a number of equal-sized tabs and windows matching the number of engine cylinders. This produces a uniform square wave output since the on/off (shielding and exposure) time is equal. This signal is used by the engine computer or ECU to control ignition timing. It is worth noting that many automotive Hall effect sensors have a built-in internal NPN transistor with an open collector and grounded emitter, meaning that rather than a voltage being produced at the Hall sensor signal output wire, the transistor is turned on providing a circuit to ground though the signal output wire.
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  #9  
Old 09-19-2008, 08:45 PM
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Re: How to test the Crank Angle 1 & 2 and Cam Angle Sensor.

Nope, it's not a Hall effect sensor. The SVX one is coil based. There is a clear diagram in the Manual.
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File Type: jpg crank.jpg (56.0 KB, 159 views)
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  #10  
Old 09-20-2008, 02:15 AM
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Re: How to test the Crank Angle 1 & 2 and Cam Angle Sensor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dessertrunner View Post
I have a copy of the manual and am working my way through what it suggests. I have 2 sensors that are bad to try and see if I can distingish them from a good one. I am going the try and make a harness to plug between the ECU and the engine fitted in the engine bay, in that way I can run test with the engine going. Will keep ypu posted.
Tony
Hi Tony, wife still talking to you?

You can only really test those sensors with a scope. The lesser way is to use a good digital multi meter to measure the out put of the sensor in AC voltage, less than 5V.

The usually they go out is for the magnet in the sensor to lose its magnetic flux. This reduces over the years due to heat and vibration, so that at low rpm the output is low, at cranking speed, it is too low to read.

Harvey.
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  #11  
Old 09-20-2008, 07:35 AM
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Re: How to test the Crank Angle 1 & 2 and Cam Angle Sensor.

I am building a harness to plug between the ECU and the Engine so I can get test points to use the scope. The first one will let me test the 3 angle sensors, the 2 knock sensors and the 2 temp guages. Here is a photo of the two plugs I am going to use. Once this test harness is built I should be able to get an understanding of what a bad sensor looks like.
Tony
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File Type: jpg Test plug.JPG (214.9 KB, 143 views)
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX.
1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC)
1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car.
1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation.
1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track.
1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine.
1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough.
Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR.
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  #12  
Old 09-20-2008, 05:53 PM
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Re: How to test the Crank Angle 1 & 2 and Cam Angle Sensor.

Here are a couple of shots of the adapter. I tested it on the car before I tap in the new feed wires to run to the test gear. Car started etc with out a problem. Hope in the next couple of hours to get the rest of the harness built.
Tony
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Adapter 1.JPG (200.6 KB, 141 views)
File Type: jpg Adapter Installed test.JPG (193.2 KB, 138 views)
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX.
1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC)
1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car.
1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation.
1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track.
1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine.
1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough.
Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR.
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  #13  
Old 09-21-2008, 04:25 AM
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Re: How to test the Crank Angle 1 & 2 and Cam Angle Sensor.

Finished the cable now need to plug in so I can put the scope on the sensors.
Tony
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File Type: jpg Completed Adaptor.JPG (186.1 KB, 138 views)
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX.
1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC)
1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car.
1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation.
1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track.
1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine.
1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough.
Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR.
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  #14  
Old 09-21-2008, 07:35 AM
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Re: How to test the Crank Angle 1 & 2 and Cam Angle Sensor.

I noticed you said that the wife's car was a hard start... Often the CTS can go bad causing hard starting. When this happens the Crank angle sensor often pops up as a fault because the engine is turning over but not starting... Let us know your findings with the new harness

Tom
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  #15  
Old 09-21-2008, 08:19 PM
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Re: How to test the Crank Angle 1 & 2 and Cam Angle Sensor.

Tom what do you mean by CTS, sorry to be so dumb? Also it wouldn't start on really cold mornings when the car temp went below 0C.
Tony
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX.
1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC)
1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car.
1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation.
1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track.
1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine.
1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough.
Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR.
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