Your Thoughts?

[Chicane]

Originally posted by thumper_svx
Randy, I didn't vote. Your options are extremely limiting... being two extremes! There's got to be a "happy medium" where we can live.

Basically, I accept progress... and I accept our younger members who really just want to talk about our car. However, I don't think that I can honestly say that I'm completely tired of this place any more than I can say that I want it to stay exactly as it is. Sure, it could use improvement but it's not THAT bad.

Ditto. The two options were "Go back to the way it was" or "Keep it the same".

What about 'improving it's current state so it's better than either"???

- Rob

[svxistentialist]

Originally posted by Chicane


Ditto. The two options were "Go back to the way it was" or "Keep it the same".

What about 'improving it's current state so it's better than either"???

- Rob

The latter is the best suggestion so far Rob, and I hope you are willing to follow it up and make it happen.

It is a little disingenuous of you to simplify the first option to "go back to the way it was" The operative phrase was "return to the former level of decorum" It would be quite possible to improve the site as you suggest, and yet retain the sense of manners and civility that marked the earlier forums. In fact, I would hold that it can't be improved without getting rid of the personal invective and petty rants that have lost us many friends. Even with certain reservations, three out of four respondents want the forums returned to the less antagonistic style, so when arguing the case you should take this statistic on board.

Care to make any suggestions as to how forums could be made better, and how to curb or deter the sort of behaviour that 75% want to improve?

Joe

[Chicane]

Originally posted by svxistentialist
Care to make any suggestions as to how forums could be made better, and how to curb or deter the sort of behaviour that 75% want to improve?

Joe

Sure.

1. B.S. should not be tolerated. If someone claims they have an intake tube that makes 30hp, the topic gets locked and deleted. Now obviously some "BS" is an opinion, but as long as the opinion is respectful and not COMPLETELY out of the ballpark, it should be allowed to stay.

2. MORE MODERATION. Some topics have done more than 'beat a dead horse', they've beaten the horse until there was nothing left but chunks and a bunch of goo. Once a topic has done that, it's too late. We need more active moderation, but people who are impartial to WHO is misbehaving. Nobody should be 'picked on'.

3. NO BAITING. Playful baiting is alright, but the type of trolling that just causes fights should not be allowed, ie, deleted and the member(s) responsible should be warned.

4. BE TOLERANT. This goes for opinions, as well as whatever people bring up.

Any other ideas?

- Rob

[svxistentialist]

Looks good to me, with a small proviso:

Number 4 clashes with number 1. If you don't "tolerate" BS, then that attitude is intolerant, which breaks rule 4. But I know what you mean.

It is fairly easy to point out that someone is in error, without labelling them as bull**** artists. They could be misguided, have been given wrong info or misinterpreted correct info, they could be innocent or ignorant. But to throw a BS label their way is to bring the problem into the realm of the personal, a recipe for vitriolic disaster.

I think a good way to improve this problem is for the site to declare that any opinions or help offered on the forums may or may not be correct, and site users take such advice at their own discretion and risk. If it's wrong, it's your problem.

Also, if someone is coming on site and passing on obviously bad information, then moderators should respond to this by taking down such posts when alerted by a few of the members who are technically adept. The person with the bad advice can be notified that such advice is not appreciated via a PM from a moderator.

What do you think?

Joe

[Andy]

Originally posted by svxistentialist
Looks good to me, with a small proviso:

Number 4 clashes with number 1. If you don't "tolerate" BS, then that attitude is intolerant, which breaks rule 4. But I know what you mean.

It is fairly easy to point out that someone is in error, without labelling them as bull**** artists. They could be misguided, have been given wrong info or misinterpreted correct info, they could be innocent or ignorant. But to throw a BS label their way is to bring the problem into the realm of the personal, a recipe for vitriolic disaster.

I think a good way to improve this problem is for the site to declare that any opinions or help offered on the forums may or may not be correct, and site users take such advice at their own discretion and risk. If it's wrong, it's your problem.

Also, if someone is coming on site and passing on obviously bad information, then moderators should respond to this by taking down such posts when alerted by a few of the members who are technically adept. The person with the bad advice can be notified that such advice is not appreciated via a PM from a moderator.

What do you think?

Joe

Seems good to me

[mbtoloczko]

Originally posted by Chicane


1. B.S. should not be tolerated. If someone claims they have an intake tube that makes 30hp, the topic gets locked and deleted. Now obviously some "BS" is an opinion, but as long as the opinion is respectful and not COMPLETELY out of the ballpark, it should be allowed to stay.

- Rob

ok, but who gets to decide when its complete BS? Not everyone here has equal knowledge and understanding. I'm more for letting any topic run as long as there's no personal attacks (direct or implied) involved in the debate. Some people are simply misled by the false advertising out there, or they just are overly optimistic in their hopes for improvements to the SVX.

[Phast SVX]

Originally posted by mbtoloczko


ok, but who gets to decide when its complete BS? Not everyone here has equal knowledge and understanding. I'm more for letting any topic run as long as there's no personal attacks (direct or implied) involved in the debate. Some people are simply misled by the false advertising out there, or they just are overly optimistic in their hopes for improvements to the SVX.

The moderators, who else?
phil

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by Chicane


Sure.

1. B.S. should not be tolerated.

Agreed, including B.S., rude and antagonistic responses including B.S. insults and namecalling.

If someone claims they have an intake tube that makes 30hp, the topic gets locked and deleted.

If someone actually BELIEVES this drivel, I think they should be locked (up) and/or deleted.

Now obviously some "BS" is an opinion, but as long as the opinion is respectful and not COMPLETELY out of the ballpark, it should be allowed to stay.

This one puzzles me. A) Opinionated B.S. is okay, but as long as it's respectful opinionated B.S. And who's "ballpark" are we talking about? This one definitely needs some tweaking.

2. MORE MODERATION. Some topics have done more than 'beat a dead horse', they've beaten the horse until there was nothing left but chunks and a bunch of goo. Once a topic has done that, it's too late. We need more active moderation, but people who are impartial to WHO is misbehaving. Nobody should be 'picked on'.

Agreed. And, don't worry, I'm not going to sign back on as moderator. Still paranoia is a tough thing to overcome, once someone feels they're being "picked on."

3. NO BAITING. Playful baiting is alright, but the type of trolling that just causes fights should not be allowed, ie, deleted and the member(s) responsible should be warned.

I think this would be good if we were fish or rabbits. We, as humans, should be able to recongnize bait on hooks or in traps and merely not take it.

4. BE TOLERANT. This goes for opinions, as well as whatever people bring up.

I hope you're ready to stand fully and completely behind this one.

Any other ideas?

- Rob

[ensteele]

I would agree with this. The interesting thing is that I have seen some posts that someone has posted, and someone else calls it BS simply because they don't agree with it. Don't expect it to be deleted if it is not over the edge. Not everyone will agree on what is and what is not. We will give it a try and hopefully get the site back to a more comfortable and enjoyable place to be.

If I have a problem with someone, I will PM them, and not do it publicly. I will expect the same from the members. If someone has problems with me, PM me. Do not drag it into the forums. If they are, they will be deleted. This is not going to be the place for arguments anymore.

I have a simple guideline to follow - I got it from Aredub:

Rule #1 The Moderator is always right!

Rule #2 If the Moderator is wrong, see Rule #1!


Just Kidding of course!

I will be open to suggestions as time goes on. Please let me know if it seems to be going better, or worse. This is not only a very time consuming task, but one that can become very unpopular. I will do my very best to do a better job of moderating this site.

[Trevor]

Originally posted by Trevor
Those I leave behind could consider the following suggested RULES. Take or leave my suggestions. EVERY word has been carefully considered. I am not be here to debate the issue : -

Two words are encouraged i.e. Please and thank you.

Direct or insinuated derogatory statements against any person are forbidden and will be deleted together with any associated text.

Language which is directly obscene will be deleted together with associated text. Properly humorous earthy conversational dialogue excepted.

Negative statements may be forthright but must not contain or indicate personal animosity and those that do will be deleted.

Members are directed to carefully read posts as well as all of the associated thread so as to reach a complete understanding of all aspects portrayed. Nothing should be read between the lines and only an objective view taken when posting in reply.

Those posting technical advice or information should qualify same as experienced, hearsay, opinion or suggestion unless the source can be quoted and is expert or from a text book or manual. The reader is then able to make informed judgement regarding the validity of advice presented. It must be appreciated that incorrect unqualified advice can be a disservice and even dangerous.

A disclaimer regarding advice could also be included if not already incorporated elsewhere.

[ensteele]

Thanks again Trevor.

I think the votes have shown that this is what the majority of the members want.

This tread is complete and we can move on now.

Thank you to all that respondied to Aredub's poll.