Before you Vote in Nov, you should read this - Page 6

elvis · #76 11-01-2004, 10:14 AM

So, I used to be an overpaid tech-guy, then I got laid off. I'll never really know why, but I assume it's partially because my job was outsourced, and partially because of 9/11.

Instead of taking the easy way out and going on unemployment (which I could still be doing by the way). I did something else. I started a consulting company.

A direct result of outsourcing in my industry is that many of the once overly-lucrative jobs (let's face it - $60k-$80k is too much to pay for a help-desk guy) are now back down to earth. I am now able to support a staff of 5 of my fellow geeks at the more realistic rates that are currently prevailing.

At this point I simply can not afford to pay any more taxes. If my business's tax obligations go up even a little, I will have to get rid of somebody. How exactly does that help the economy?

If my healthcare costs go up I'll have to cut benefits - who does that help? Rember John Edwards? You know, the slimeball ambulance-chaser that's running for VP? I wonder how he wants the healthcare system to work? Why haven't we heard ANYTHING from him since the debates? Is he dead?

Forget about what bombs were or weren't in Iraq. Who cares? It doesn't affect us at all. Of course the war did not go as planned. What war does? As long as we don't get attacked here, the Army is doing the right thing. That's what they are for.

svxthc · #77 11-01-2004, 10:27 AM

Bottom line is is you shouldn't pay too much attention to presidential propaganda on TV, because most of it is twisted. You shoud make up your own mind on whether or not you want your son coming home in a box.

Royal Tiger · #78 11-01-2004, 11:13 AM

I assume you mean in Iraq. Here's some facts you don't get on TV. The first 104 US Troops killed in Gulf War I were non-combat deaths. The 1st guy killed was run over by a forklift in a warehouse. Numbers 103 and 104 crashed into a pole. More 18-30 year old males are killed in the US then the equivalent age group in the US Military. Including the middle east. Therefore your 18-30 year old male is more likely to die in the US then in Iraq. These are numeric facts. Distort them anyway you want.

#79 11-01-2004, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by svxthc
Bottom line is is you shouldn't pay too much attention to presidential propaganda on TV, because most of it is twisted. You shoud make up your own mind on whether or not you want your son coming home in a box.

Or make your mind on whether or not you can even afford to have a child with insane taxes, healthcare premiums, etc.

:P

Vote third party!

elvis · #80 11-01-2004, 11:41 AM

I'd love to see a good Libertarian get in contention, but it's not going to happen any time soon. Till then I vote lower taxes, smaller government.

drivemusicnow · #81 11-01-2004, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PA_SVX
I assume you mean in Iraq. Here's some facts you don't get on TV. The first 104 US Troops killed in Gulf War I were non-combat deaths. The 1st guy killed was run over by a forklift in a warehouse. Numbers 103 and 104 crashed into a pole. More 18-30 year old males are killed in the US then the equivalent age group in the US Military. Including the middle east. Therefore your 18-30 year old male is more likely to die in the US then in Iraq. These are numeric facts. Distort them anyway you want.

lol.. this is again a case of "you can make statistics prove anything" OF COURSE more 18-30 year old males die outside of the military then in.. theres only like 5 times as many.. look at percentages, and it would be a different story. Hey shadow, i'll PM you and we'll keep it civil.. i like the discussion.. but one thing i want to specifically state on this thread

Quote:

Again, if you think Saddam had nothing to do with Al-Queda, then i'd love to come live in your world where everything is exactly the way it seems.

Ummm this has been studied, and maybe you are better informed than the Duelfer Report, the CIA and the 9/11 Commission findings, however they seem to think otherwise. http://laterbush.com/bushisfullofit/
(yeah another very biased website, however the data checks out as far as i can tell)

elvis · #82 11-01-2004, 12:50 PM

Do you really think that Sadam did not want to hurt the US or other US-Friendly nations? That's just silly. Where do you think the Great Satan, Little Satan references come from?

How about Iran or Syria, or any of the other nations run by screaming mental patients in the Middle East? Are they going to just leave us alone?

What this war has given us is a place in the most volitile region of the world where we can keep 200,000 guys without asking permisson or making deals. Not a bad idea. Instead of keeping the peacekeepers in Euorope and Asia, we can move those troops to Iraq.

The Iraqi war is not about oil, it's about geography. Take a look at a map. Iraq is dead-center in the Middle East, and borders on all the nations of crazys.

Landshark · #83 11-01-2004, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drivemusicnow
Ummm this has been studied, and maybe you are better informed than the Duelfer Report, the CIA and the 9/11 Commission findings, however they seem to think otherwise. http://laterbush.com/bushisfullofit/
(yeah another very biased website, however the data checks out as far as i can tell)

yes, this has been studied. stop listening to liberal B.S.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=29949

#84 11-01-2004, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by elvis
I'd love to see a good Libertarian get in contention, but it's not going to happen any time soon. Till then I vote lower taxes, smaller government.

I would agree with you, but unfortunatly that option has VANISHED. I voted for bush because I believed in a smaller gov and lower taxes. Now he's spent more than Clinton ever did, and big brother is getting more powerful thanks to oxymoronic things like the patriot act.

I don't want high taxes and big governemnt, but I don't want my rights taken away.

Vote third party.

Shadow248 · #85 11-01-2004, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drivemusicnow
Ummm this has been studied, and maybe you are better informed than the Duelfer Report, the CIA and the 9/11 Commission findings, however they seem to think otherwise. http://laterbush.com/bushisfullofit/
(yeah another very biased website, however the data checks out as far as i can tell)

I've read just about all there is to read on the 9/11 Commission findings and recommendations...they actually do support the idea that Saddam had planned cooperations with Al-Queda. Not just informal alliances...PLANS.

Regardless of evidence...saying that Saddam had no connection to Al-Queda is alot like arresting a notorious drug dealer and then saying that the 20 year old guy living next door in his million dollar mansion complete with greenhouse in the backyard had no connection to the dealer. It's just one of those obvious things. Saddam had money and connections, Osama had manpower and brains...and they both wanted the same thing. DUH.

That site is hilarious. I'm glad I went there. That just gave me my evening comedy fix. Hahahaha...Christian Fascists are going to take over the world and make everyone go to church...yeah we'd definetly be better off being nuked by terrorists. What a nutball.

Ron Mummert · #86 11-02-2004, 07:29 AM

Hmmmm....

I've been pondering (again).

WHAT IF, six months ago, we actually DID find big piles of WMDs buried under camel dung somewhere in the sand.
What would the election look like today?

Talk amongst yourselves.

Ron (My guess is that Halliburton would have been accused of planting them).

mohrds · #87 11-02-2004, 09:16 AM

Iraq-al-Qaida links go back decade
CIA reports show nearly 100 examples of cooperation, says reporter

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: December 11, 2002
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com

CIA reports of Iraqi-al-Qaida cooperation number nearly 100 and extend back to 1992, according to a reporter for Vanity Fair whose sources include senior Pentagon officials.

David Rose, writing for the magazine and the United Kingdom's Evening Standard, says he is convinced of the links between Osama bin Laden's terrorist network and Saddam Hussein's Baghdad regime.

"My own doubts emerged more than a year ago, when a very senior CIA man told me that, contrary to the line his own colleagues were assiduously disseminating, there was evidence of an Iraq-al-Qaida link," Rose writes. "He confirmed a story I had been told by members of the anti-Saddam Iraqi National Congress – that two of the hijackers, Marwan Al-Shehhi and Ziad Jarrah, had met Mukhabarat officers in the months before 9-11 in the United Arab Emirates. This, he said, was a pattern of contact between Iraq and al-Qaida which went back years."

Rose reveals in the new issue of Vanity Fair that the Pentagon established a special intelligence unit to re-examine evidence of an Iraq-al-Qaida connection earlier this year. The CIA cooperated by supplying the unit with copies of its reports going back a decade.

"I have spoken to three senior officials who have seen its conclusions, which are striking," he writes. "'In the Cold War,' says one of them, 'often you'd draw firm conclusions and make policy on the basis of just four or five reports. Here there are almost 100 separate examples of Iraq-al-Qaida cooperation going back to 1992.'"

Assertions that Iraq is cooperating and supporting al-Qaida are supported by the findings of a new book by a top terrorism expert.

Yossef Bodansky, author of "The High Cost of Peace," says joint preparations by Hussein, Yasser Arafat and al-Qaida for a new wave of anti-U.S. terror began last spring. The model for the terrorism campaign is Arafat's Black September Organization of the 1970s.

The initiative for the alliance came from Palestinian Islamists based in Lebanon and Syria, according to Bodansky, the U.S. Congress' top terrorism adviser. The response from al-Qaida came April 2, says Bodansky.

"A group calling itself the bin Laden Brigades-Palestine issued a statement formally integrating the Islamist and Fatah wave of anti-Israel terrorism into bin Laden's global jihad," he writes in his new book. "The bin Laden Brigades announced that their forces were now at the disposal of 'Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades and fighter commander Marwan al-Barghouti' to fight 'alongside the Brigades' fighters and the Islamic factions.' The statement emphasized that numerous Palestinian factions, specifically including al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, '[had] become part of the International Front for Fighting Jews and Christians, led by Osama bin Laden.' They now '[had] found the path of Islam and adopted the line of genuine resistance of the jihad movement and Islamic resistance, that is the path of jihad and martyrdom for the sake of God, and discarded forever the lies of the alleged peace and the myths of negotiations.'"

The anti-U.S. coalition also includes Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

A communique issued on April 2 from the Unified Leadership of the Intifadah – an umbrella organization representing Arafat's Fatah groups, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other members of the Palestine Liberation Organization – called for attacks on U.S. interests.

"The United States is backing the Israeli assault on the Palestinians," it said. "Therefore, U.S. facilities, targets and interests throughout the world should be harmed."

Unit 999 of Iraqi intelligence has helped train both Arafat's shock troops and bin Laden's Islamists for suicide operations utilizing weapons of mass destruction. According to Bodansky's book, some of these terrorists have already "succeeded in infiltrating several Arab countries. They are provided with instructions, secret codes and advanced weapons."

According to Israeli sources, the Iraqis permitted the terrorist trainees to test chemical weapons in southern Kurdistan