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  #31  
Old 02-18-2008, 09:19 PM
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I'd also like to point out that i've given Tom ample opportunity to stfu and everyone else ample opportunity to speak up more gently and encourage him to do so.
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  #32  
Old 02-19-2008, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
You bought the parts when you did because that's when they were available--that didn't mean you had to put them together
One quick question: Why would you even sell products that are still in development? Something as expensive as an engine build, that can be jeopardized so easily by a miscalculation not only on the part of the builder, but the software used? If a new version of the software is available that allegedly solves the issues being bought up, why has the customer not received the updated software...even if it's only to figure out if the software is creating the said issues or if it is in fact, something wrong mechanically?
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt
I agree that the components available now are of great quality and DO work. Its the lack of spending the $ to dyno tune anything right now that astonishes me that anyone listens. Your plans all work great in theory but you will never know until you test them.
As far as dyno tuning the software, tom does have a good point. Calculations are all fine and dandy, but your not going to get the best out of your software unless you can hook the whole kit and kaboodle to a dyno, and make minute adjustments between pulls to accurately pinpoint areas for improvement..rather than sending a customer off with several sets of software that *could* be better than the last, and seeing which one shows the best improvements. Sure, the trial and error method might work, but it just doesn't have the accuracy of a full on dyno tune. I think I understand your methodology, on a business aspect. You want to make it difficult for someone to copy the custom maps and reproduce them for free on an ems they can program themselves at a fraction of the cost, stealing well deserved business. Using a chip is also more cost effective than a full ecu, and less things can go wrong than wiring in a whole new engine management. I think a nice compromise would be to build a one off stand alone, go spend a day at the dyno with it and whatever your testing...weather it be software for a stock motor, or one with your other line of performance upgrades, making every little tweak possible to bring out the best, then copying the maps to the chips and resuming business as usual.

I know you've put alot of hard work and effort into making better performance software for the svx, but I just think theres more to be gained through tuning than your current methodology has been able to open up.
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Last edited by It's Just Eric; 02-19-2008 at 12:47 AM. Reason: spell check likes to make words I didnt want :(
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  #33  
Old 02-19-2008, 01:16 AM
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The answer to that is very simple. Because of the expense of engineering, custom tooling, fixturing, and set up time involved in making new engine parts they are negative NPV projects for the very small SVX market and in any case production must be done in runs/batches. The SVX market is too small for it to be economically feasible for an indivual or business to invest in development, manufacturing, and testing. That's why for the longest time there was nothing available for the SVX. It was only after I came along and leveraged my extensive industry contacts and personal relationships that we were able to get things manufactured for the SVX that would have otherwise never been manufactured. While I'll leverage my contacts and invest more time than I probably should I made it clear up front that the people who want these products would have to take their share of the risk and put up their share of the money necessary through ordering batches of what were clearly prototypes. Prototpes which have all come out well.



Quote:
Originally Posted by It's Just Eric View Post
One quick question: Why would you even sell products that are still in development? Something as expensive as an engine build, that can be jeopardized so easily by a miscalculation not only on the part of the builder, but the software used? If a new version of the software is available that allegedly solves the issues being bought up, why has the customer not received the updated software...even if it's only to figure out if the software is creating the said issues or if it is in fact, something wrong mechanically?


As far as dyno tuning the software, tom does have a good point. Calculations are all fine and dandy, but your not going to get the best out of your software unless you can hook the whole kit and kaboodle to a dyno, and make minute adjustments between pulls to accurately pinpoint areas for improvement..rather than sending a customer off with several sets of software that *could* be better than the last, and seeing which one shows the best improvements. Sure, the trial and error method might work, but it just doesn't have the accuracy of a full on dyno tune. I think I understand your methodology, on a business aspect. You want to make it difficult for someone to copy the custom maps and reproduce them for free on an ems they can program themselves at a fraction of the cost, stealing well deserved business. Using a chip is also more cost effective than a full ecu, and less things can go wrong than wiring in a whole new engine management. I think a nice compromise would be to build a one off stand alone, go spend a day at the dyno with it and whatever your testing...weather it be software for a stock motor, or one with your other line of performance upgrades, making every little tweak possible to bring out the best, then copying the maps to the chips and resuming business as usual.

I know you've put alot of hard work and effort into making better performance software for the svx, but I just think theres more to be gained through tuning than your current methodology has been able to open up.
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  #34  
Old 02-19-2008, 06:40 AM
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for the record I have taken this to PM's. If Mike wants to keep it here he can but I will not.

Tom
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  #35  
Old 02-20-2008, 03:04 AM
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Guys we need you both so take it out of the public forum.
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  #36  
Old 02-20-2008, 09:30 PM
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  #37  
Old 02-21-2008, 03:09 PM
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  #38  
Old 02-26-2008, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAN
While I'll leverage my contacts and invest more time than I probably should I made it clear up front that the people who want these products would have to take their share of the risk and put up their share of the money necessary through ordering batches of what were clearly prototypes. Prototpes which have all come out well.
Well, clearly then, the people buying the untested prototypes are, in essence, testing the products FOR you. Why would you not only disregard their concerns, isues, and suggestions, but also not offer them revised versions of your products?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
if a new version of the software is available that allegedly solves the issues being bought up, why has the customer not received the updated software...even if it's only to figure out if the software is creating the said issues or if it is in fact, something wrong mechanically?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAN
I'd also like to point out that i've given Tom ample opportunity to stfu and everyone else ample opportunity to speak up more gently and encourage him to do so.
The one person who actually has a clue as to what's going on..the one who has done transmission work AND stage 3 installs or two people running the same exact set up, as well as recommend your products to others AND buy, test, and try to help develop your products tells you theres some serious issues with your products...and you respond by telling him to shut the **** up?
Mind you, what baffles me, you tell him and others that everything is fine, and at the same time remove the stage 3 supercharger system from your shelves.Why?
dont think anyone has put me up to saying this...It truely comes from my own mind..my own reasoning, and things that ive observed:

your buisness practices leave much to be desired
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  #39  
Old 02-26-2008, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by It's Just Eric View Post
Well, clearly then, the people buying the untested prototypes are, in essence, testing the products FOR you. Why would you not only disregard their concerns, isues, and suggestions, but also not offer them revised versions of your products?




The one person who actually has a clue as to what's going on..the one who has done transmission work AND stage 3 installs or two people running the same exact set up, as well as recommend your products to others AND buy, test, and try to help develop your products tells you theres some serious issues with your products...and you respond by telling him to shut the **** up?
Mind you, what baffles me, you tell him and others that everything is fine, and at the same time remove the stage 3 supercharger system from your shelves.Why?
dont think anyone has put me up to saying this...It truely comes from my own mind..my own reasoning, and things that ive observed:

your buisness practices leave much to be desired


interesting comment
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  #40  
Old 02-26-2008, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by YourConfused View Post
interesting comment
How true! How true?
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  #41  
Old 02-27-2008, 01:33 AM
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It's Just Eric,

How is it you can say that Tom is "the one person who actually has a clue as to what's going on" and everyone else who dissagress with him is wrong?

Jeff and Bobby said the cams work great and idle well at 800 rpms while Tom said no no the cams don't work and don't idle--now he says they work well and the idle isn't that bad. Did he retract his claims and let people know he was mistaken? No.

Look at the camshaft thread. Did I tell people things were ok or did I ask them if they are ok? I asked them if they are OK. They said they were.

I have since built my own motor and what do you know..they work great and idle well at 800 rpms...775 actually.


Tom is not "the one person who actually has a clue as to what's going on."

Last edited by longassname; 02-27-2008 at 02:15 AM. Reason: R ->B
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  #42  
Old 02-27-2008, 01:39 AM
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It's Just Eric,

I have always given free revisions when I have made a mistake on something or something went wrong. When I made a typo in the 87 octane code of a stage 1 version I gave free revisions. When I first released software for the z32 meter and didn't get the area without ac adjusted I gave free revisions. When the base circle on the intake camshafts was too small I bought new camshafts and got them ground and replaced everyone's intake camshafts.

Last edited by longassname; 02-27-2008 at 02:18 AM. Reason: added the free stage 2 revision I remembered giving
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  #43  
Old 02-27-2008, 06:35 AM
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I am going to say this is enough in this thread. Are there unresolved issues between Mike and I, yes. Is it appropriate to drag them out here?? No. Mike, I really do wish you would respond to the PM's I had sent you regarding this though.

If you are hoping that I will apologize for telling people they will benefit more from an ECU tuned to their specific application, that is a mistake. While their are benefits to your products in the fact that they allow more modifications, there is no end user adjust ability, which in the end is more of a restriction than anything else.

In a couple of weeks I will be tearing down my engine and my stage 3 and testing the manifolds and TB adaptors for leaks and cracks. I will also be send my short block out to be investigated to find exactly why I have a noisy rod bearing but I already know what the answer will be.

Not to mention, Eric is not talking about the cams. He is talking about the stage3 itself. Yes the cams create a very nice linear power curve, yes they effect the idle negatively. IS it unlivable, no.

At this point I am not trying to take you down or take away business from you, I have nothing to gain from this. I have had the stage 3 for over 2 years I think and guess what, it never ran 100% since day 1. It ran OK on 9psi but never 100%.

Tom

Last edited by TomsSVX; 02-27-2008 at 06:42 AM.
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  #44  
Old 03-01-2008, 11:46 AM
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To keep things simple......


Since this IS a performance thread, just take the claims to the track. We will know what works, what doesn't and how well they do in between. Either this or dyno. The track is generally a more excepted measure.
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  #45  
Old 03-01-2008, 01:07 PM
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Ya, I generally stick to posting my results rather than responding to negativity but my complaints are not result related. I'm responding to what I think are deliberate efforts Tom has made to try to cultivate a misstrust of me and anything I've created in order to steer business his way for his new garage--after creating and using a missperception that he was somehow related to ECUtune to develop a sense that he knew what he was doing to begin with.

While Tom is one of the people who purchased the first engine components and was the last person to purchase a supercharger system he did not in any way help develop anything. He was not some great test mule that was abused as he is trying to characterize it. After he purchased his supercharger system I did provide him 7 different versions of software to try to address things he was giving me feedback on. Unfortunately his feedback was extremely unreliable and wasn't at all fruitfull--hince 7 versions of software sent to him. He seems to make up his mind about what is going on first and then report what he thinks supports what he has already decided in order to get what he wants.

I'm sure I'm not going to change the mind of the handfull of people out there that have decided against me and you'll notice my posts are not directed back to those people but to the others who may come along not knowing the true history that brings us here today. On my part I consider Tom nothing but a damaging force and yes I have told him I no longer want to have any interaction with said damaging force. I have also told him I will continue to set the record clear when he (or anyone else) does this kind of stuff on the forum.

The change in atmosphere/mood on the forum since the battle of the self proclaimed mechanics and battle of the technical gurus is regretable. The main thing the svx community ever had to offer me was a sense of accomplishment and appreciation. While the accomplishment has repeatedly been proven and is once again be proven as the results from using the engine components come in I miss the sense of appreciation.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Myxalplyx View Post
To keep things simple......


Since this IS a performance thread, just take the claims to the track. We will know what works, what doesn't and how well they do in between. Either this or dyno. The track is generally a more excepted measure.
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