Tire sipping

[d4d330]

What do you guys think about tire sipping for the SVX?
I had my last pair of BFG AT's sipped for my Suburban and they were awesome. I got 100K out of them, so I'm sure sipping improves wear, and they gripped on ice and wet surfaces very well, basically sipping did everything as advertised.
What I don't know is how sipping would hold up under aggressive driving.
Is anyone sipping here? We're in Michigan so we get lots of slippery driving time and we are close to buying new tires for the SVX.
Thanks,
Terry

[JaySVX]

I've never heard of it, and i can't imagine how it would improve tire life. I would guess under agressive driving it wouldn't do as well, because it seems like it would make your tire weaker and wear faster, and the abuse of agressive tire would take those "micro-cuts" and tear them larger, thus reducing life.

[Mr. Pockets]

People might be confused here. I think you mean 'siping,' not 'sipping.'

Having said that, I have no opinion on it, but I would definitely look at the process very critically. Find out what the tire manufacturer says about it.

[Romantt8]

From Wikipedia:


Siping is a process of cutting thin slits across a rubber surface to improve traction in wet or icy conditions.

Siping was invented and patented by John Sipe in the 1920s. Sipe worked in a slaughterhouse and grew tired of slipping on the wet floors. He found that cutting slits in the tread on the bottoms of his shoes provided better traction than the uncut tread.

The process was not applied to vehicle tires on a large scale until the 1950s, when superior tread compounds were developed that could stand up to the siping process. On roads covered with snow, ice, mud, and water, sipes usually increase traction. A US patent to Goodyear claimed sipes improve tire traction as well, and tend to close completely in the tire "footprint" on the road. A 1978 study by the US National Safety Council found siping improved stopping distances by 22 percent, breakaway traction by 65 percent, and rolling traction by 28 percent on glare ice[1].

Tire tread block shapes, groove configurations, and sipes affect tire noise pattern and traction characteristics. Typically, wide, straight grooves have a low noise level and good water removal. More lateral grooves usually increase traction. Sipes are small grooves that are cut across larger tread elements. Up to a point, more sipes give more traction in snow or mud.

As is often the case, there are compromises. Winter tires, and "mud and snow" tires, may have thousands of sipes and give good traction. But, they may feel "squirmy" on a warm, dry road. Treadless racing "slicks" on dry roads give maximum traction. These have no sipes, no grooves, and no tread blocks. They also have very poor traction on wet surfaces. Tire manufacturers use different tread rubber compounds and tread designs for different tires' usages.

Large sipes are usually built into the tread during manufacturing. Sipes may also be cut into the tread at a later date, called "microsiping". Bandag developed a machine for microsiping which places a curved knife blade at a slight angle on a rotating drum. The drum is placed so when it is pressed against the tread the tire is pressed into an exaggerated hollow, as if driving down a rail. The drum is lubricated and rotated and the knife makes a series of diagonal cuts across the tread. For improved traction, the tire may be siped twice, leaving diamond-shaped blocks. A significant problem with field siping is that the tread picks up rocks, glass, and other hard road debris in use, and even with thorough cleaning the knife service life is often poor.

Microsiping can dramatically improve tire traction in rain and snow. However, microsiped tires may also have increased road noise and tire wear when operated on dry surfaces.

In Massachusetts in the 1970's, it was legal to operate a school bus with bald tires, provided they were double microsiped.

Both Bridgestone and Michelin sell snow tires that are siped at the factory, while Saf-Tee Siping and Grooving sells machines that can sipe most standard vehicle tires. Siping can also be done by hand. Be aware that siping the tires can void the manufacturer's warranty.

[OrIoN]

Wow... thanks for that VH1 moment in tire traction history

I've lived in Michigan pretty much my entire life. I have learned there is no perfect tire for the Michigan multi-season, sun to snow to rain 30 degree to 70 degree ever changing weather. What I do is designate a winter set of wheels and tires and a summer set. The winter set, I've been running Dunlop WinterSport M2, and summer the latest has been ContiSports...

but two sets is the way to go...

[thumper_svx]

Excellent information on Siping... Wikipedia's not perfect for everything, but on intensely technical subjects it's usually pretty good.

As regards siping in general... well I'll say that I know some good people who work in the tire engineering industry. A hell of a lot of research and development goes into creating a tire that effectively balances noise, tread wear, temperature, traction and all manner of other variables. Despite what some people think about corporations trying to rip us off, most tire manufacturers really do want to provide the best bang for the buck... because (a) a happy customer is a repeat customer and (b) it's a lot easier for a living customer to be a repeat customer, than a dead one.

Siping your tires is good if you're going to be doing winter driving, but it won't increase lifespan of your tires despite what some people will tell you. The noise might also drive you crazy

[d4d330]

Evidently siping is not common outside of the snowbelt, but I won't hesitate to do it on one of our daily drivers next time we have need for new tires.
I suppose the tread choice will make a difference in deciding for the SVX. I really like the BF Goodrich g-Force T/A KDW NT
http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/fin...6494&ar=45&ct=
Here's more info on siping from Discount Tire.
http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/tireSiping.dos
As I said, siping my last set of BFG's made a believer out of me. I've had three different 4X4's running the BFG's and I didn't get the mileage or traction on the unsiped tires, and the siped tires WERE quieter too.

Thanks for the feedback.
Terry

[shelfy]

+1 for siping
-1 for sipping

[NikFu S.]

Siping comes standard on winter tires (and others) and is configured into the engineering of the tire. I would not sipe tires to make them do anything better than they are supposed to.
Just get tires that are meant for the job.

I do not see how treadlife could be improved, and I do not see how you can get 100k out of any tire.

[ensteele]

I have been told by tire people that siping will increase life by decreasomg the heat. It gives much better traction as well.

[SSSVX]

That's amazing you can get 100k out of from your Jeep?


I know a guy did that on his winter tires, it's very noisy when he drove by.

[dcarrb]

This is like that 100 miles-per-gallon carburetor some guy fabricated in his garage back during the oil embargo in the early 70s. If siping really did these miraculous things, tires manfacturers would have gotten the clue by now.

As someone alluded in an earlier post, most engineers for the major tire makers are probably fairly bright folks. Hard to figure that some fellow at the local tire shop really has a better idea, well, except for prying a few more bucks from customers' wallets. Gotta give 'em credit for that.

dcb