O/T: GM Cavalier Concept Cars STOLEN

[Shadow248]

Noted.

Originally posted by Mr. Pockets
Since you're big on documentation and proof, ca$h (which I fully respect), here's mine.

http://www.completebiasedbull****and...itsforeign.com

I apologize for the obscenely long link.
Please, if you have any proof that the Neon is 'ultra reliable,' I'd love to see it.

Ah. Yes. The almight consumer reports. >sigh< Alright. Like I said, the neons headgasket was redesigned in mid 97, and there have been NO PROBLEMS SINCE then. yet.... yet... SOMEHOW.... SOMEWAY.... Consumer reports STILL manages to give the neon an 'unreliable' rating. How? Who the hell knows. I've found that Consumer Reports is INSANELY unaccurate, they reported the neons 0-60 as almost 9 seconds, when in fact its roughly 7. When asked about this, CR responded to the neon enthusiasts with an excuse saying "they didn't push the pedal down all the way because they figured most consumers wouldnt ever floor it". Um. WHAT?! By that rational a viper could be aced by a yugo! Anyway, I cannot give you a URL to prove my point; I can however state that I've driven 102,000 miles with my neon BEATING THE CRAP OUT OF IT, and I haven't had much trouble at all. I did blow a headgasket at 24k, and tehy replaced it with a revised headgasket. Other than that, I put in new plugs at 65k, shocks at 84k, rotors at 72k, and new rear strut mounts at 95k. THATS IT. Head over to neons.org to see many more stories of people well over 150k that still aren't having problems. Head over to www.macnn.com and ask Zimphire all the problems he's ahd with his neon (NONE). Consumer Reports is complete crap- instead of giving you facts they basically tell you what the general public (read ignorant) wants you to hear.

- Ca$h

PS: They do have horrible interiors... though not as bad as J bodies. Blech. But they're fast, reliable, and cheap.

Originally posted by alacrity024
Just a sort of "American Sport Compact Car" sidenote.. Has anyone seen the new Neon SRT-10? It actually looks pretty nice.. 220 turbocharged horses--albeit driving the front wheels--and a pretty nice body for a reasonable price. I heard the target was somewhere around 20k if they decide to go into production.. That sounds like a pretty good deal to me. As much as I hate to picture myself driving an American car (with the exception of a new Cobra Mustang, a Z06, or any Saleen product), I'm starting to think that if the current trends continue, my first new car may in fact be a domestic..

Its called the SRT-4. I've seen this car in person, at the last neon convention. I took pictures of the dyno graphs, its incredible. With OVER 215 hp, and an insanely flat torque curve, this car is a beast. The rotors are incredible, they're beefier than the SVXs. Anyway, long story short, a few enthusiasts were taken for a ride in the SRT4. In FRONT of the neon factory, a Pontiac Firebired WS6 revved against the SRT4. Not from a standing start mind you, but at about 20mph. The neon DESTROYED the WS6. With 3 people in it. It is absolutely a bargain, I can't wait for it to hit the streets (it is going into production, it will be available in yellow, red, black and silver).

- Ca$h

[Mr. Pockets]

Originally posted by Ca$h
Consumer Reports is complete crap- instead of giving you facts they basically tell you what the general public (read ignorant) wants you to hear.

- Ca$h

That last statement doesn't really make sense. They report consumers' experiences with the cars, and that's somehow a symptom of their biased reporting. Interesting argument.

Whether or not the general public (ie owners) are ignorant, they are at least familiar with their own experiences and I think that they're qualified to relate those.

Some other auto reliability rating sites echo what you say - that besides the initial head gasket problems, the Neon is basically a reliable car.

But I do see suggestions that Neons suffer some serious electrical problems. Can you shed some light on that?

And what is the deal with Neons and their friggin' paint? I see Neons all over the place with half their paint peeled off.

Originally posted by Shadow248 Chrysler has never been one to slump on performance, however they have been at the bottom of the list quality-wise for as long as i can remember. My brother's '69 camaro is much more solid even after 30 years than a brand new neon, or pretty much any other chrysler. They still have not remedied the head gasket problem. Go to Carpoint or Consumer reports sites and that is the number one problem listed for the Neon since it's inception. Add to that the problems with the new cooling system, and the notion of "ultra-reliable" really goes out the window.

Alright. Sorry, you're just plain wrong. Mopar has ALWAYS been one of the beefiest manufacturers. Compare a 69 Camaro to a 69 mustang to a 69 Charger shall we? Which one has the beefiest suspension? THE MOPAR. Basically, all mopars came with great suspension from the factory, with an 8and 3/4 inch pumpkin out back that could handle a LOT of power. The WORST in suspension was ford. The Mustang was based on the Ford Falcon Chassis, which is the cheapest and crappiest car Ford made at the time. Also, ever seen "Bullit"? During the chase sequence, the mustang literally falls apart on landings. The charger held up fine. Search for a more detailed description on this, but its insane how crappy mustangs are.

Secondly, yes, they HAVE remedied the headgasket problem. Like I've stated, since mid 1997, they've been using a new headgasket made from multi layered steel, and it has solved ALL PROBLEMS. You don't see 98,99, 00,01, or 02 neons with headgasket problems. Why can't Consumer Reports get this fact through their insanely thick skulls? Because it is a domestic manufacturer, and CR literally craps on any car if it is domestic.

Originally posted by Shadow248 Autocross racing is a bad example in this case, since the only thing Chrysler about the autocross neons is their body.

I can't really decipher what you mean because of your bad English, so...eh... no idea what you're talking about there. Maybe you were saying ..... eh.. who knows. Please restate more clearly.

Originally posted by Shadow248 Performance-wise, here are some interesting facts. I checked Road & Track's "Road Test Summary" pages wondering if maybe the Neon IS faster than the Cavi. Here are the numbers for a 97 Neon (150hp) vs. a 97 Cavalier (150hp). These are from the Dec 1998 issue. The first number is 0-60 and the second is 1/4mi.

Neon 8.5/16.5
Cavalier 7.7/15.9

Hrm. Yes. See... I really don't know how they get these. I have a base model neon, the one with only 132 hp, yet EVERY j-body I've ever raced has been destroyed, completley. I don't get it. Maybe GM specially prepped one of their J bodies for the R&T test, but in the really real world Neons are quite a bit faster than Jbodies. Basically, J Bodies weigh more, and their engines are quite outdated. Neons (base models and acrs) weigh about 2400 lbs, some a little less, some a little more. I have no idea what J bodies weigh, but its a bit more.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shadow248 But then the only real difference would be in the Neon SRT (220hp), and that should really be compared to the Cavalier Technic (240hp) which isn't due out until next year.

The price is cheaper on the Neon, and as i said before, for good reason. One poster in this thread said something about the only reason to buy a cavalier is a trailer and something about a Camaro lawn ornament? Seems to me the only reason to buy a Neon is if you can't afford a Cavalier.
[/QUO[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shadow248 [B]TE]

GM never builds its concept vehicles. Don't hold your breath for that Cav. Secondly, as a long standing member at neons.org, the Jbody guys have stopped by in our forums quite a bit. Basically, since we're both underdogs (domestics in an area dominated by imports) they've formed some what of a truce, and ..well... its just sort of an accepted fact that if you want to go fast, you get a neon. If you want to 'roll' and 'cruise' and put neon lights and chrome wheels and playboy bunny stickers on your car, get a Cav. >shrug<

- Ca$h

[solarsvx]

cash .. even your srt-4 dont even impress me, its still a nenone even down to the core,,, again if u want power and a fast car

buy a

toyota supra
300gt vr4
rx7 twin turbo
300 zx twin turbo
gsx eclipse AWD turbo


dodge neon is in the class of cheap economy cars, i rather own a honda then a neone the turbo kits are cheaper and more reliable hondas have always been reliable

if u want cheap fast cars,, bye a muscle car..easy to work on and cheap parts to get

any way u put it . your neon it will always be a FWD wich is usless crap

can we get back to the original subject thread

Originally posted by Mr. Pockets


That last statement doesn't really make sense. They report consumers' experiences with the cars, and that's somehow a symptom of their biased reporting. Interesting argument.
Whether or not the general public (ie owners) are ignorant, they are at least familiar with their own experiences and I think that they're qualified to relate those.

Yeah, you are 100% correct. CR should report what owners report to them. HOWEVER, if a problem is fixed, and someone with a 1995 neon blows a headgasket in 2001, does that mean that Chrysler hasn't solved the problem? NO. They HAVE FIXED IT. Headgaskets are NO longer an issue, and frankly, I think a headgasket problem (which is easy to fix) doesn't necessarily make it unreliable. In fact... I can think of another car that has MORE problems that are even more expensive (transmissions dying, rear wheel bearings) that SOMEHOW, SOMEWAY, people don't automatically say "Oh those are POSs the transmissions always blow up!". I mean...has Subaru ever even completely fixed the problem with the SVXs transmissions? Nope. Yet magazines won't mark the SVX as horribly unreliable. Why? Its an import, thats why. The neon INITIALLY had some problems, basically like any first year car. Those problems were fixed, and it pisses me off that CR is STILL reporting neons as unreliable.

Originally posted by Mr. Pockets
Some other auto reliability rating sites echo what you say - that besides the initial head gasket problems, the Neon is basically a reliable car.

But I do see suggestions that Neons suffer some serious electrical problems. Can you shed some light on that?

And what is the deal with Neons and their friggin' paint? I see Neons all over the place with half their paint peeled off.

I haven't ever heard of electrical problems in a neon. Ever. .... >scratches head<

Where did you hear that? Considering I converse with neon folk almost everday, I'm sure that if this was an issue I would of heard about it, but I haven't heard of an electrical problem from even one person.

As for the peeling paint, YEP. Chrysler screwed up. If you ever do buy a neon, BEWARE OF LAPIS BLUE. For some reason, almost ALL "lapis blue" colored neons have peeling paint. Nobody knows exactly why, but that is what you are talking about. The only other car with paint problems was the 1995-1996 White cars, but that isn't as often as the lapis blue. So yeah. There are paint problems, but as long as you buy a good color (Black! ) you're fine.

- Ca$h

Originally posted by solarsvx
me no spell. me moron. ooga ooga

Solar, your ignorance never ceases to amaze me. Neons are slow eh? They'll always be pieces of crap? Care to race your SUPERIOR FAST svx against a neon? For pink slips? I could arrange it.

Good. Now shut up.

- Ca$h

[solarsvx]

i wouldnt race my svx its slow i admit,,

stock to stock the neon is lunch meet ..

no no i got abought a dozen dsm and few supras who love your car title.... =>


i dunno if im technically blind, but for the love of all things living its a friging neon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


its not even a sports car not even classified as a sports or even has enough to be a sports car,, cash i have never seen any one so thick headed


if i was moderating u would have been booted on the 1st thread,

]me no spell. me moron. ooga ooga ]"quote cash"

see this is why i call u a childish kid,, i have never said anything directly to u like this.. just giving my opnions, this needs to stop .

cash u cant sem to talk u just argue, i definatly dont aperciate it

Originally posted by Ca$h
their engines are quite outdated.

All J bodies feature a 2.2L DOHC "ECOTEC" engine which was co-designed with Lotus and introduced in the 2002 Model year. How could this be outdated when it was just introduced?

Mike

You know, everyone... I just wanted to post a little news since it was somewhat important to me and a few others. I didnt mean to start such an uprising. And I certanly didnt want an attack on j-bodies. My cav is my baby. I value it more than anything I have, and It is difficult for me to not be offended when someone makes an attack on something so close to home. My cav has no chrome wheels, playboy bunny stickers, OR neons.

Mike

[DavieGravy]

Originally posted by Mr. Pockets


Look, I won't debate whether or not the Neon does well in autocrossing or other forms of SCCA racing. I know it does.

But as for the Neon being 'ultra reliable,' I'm gonna have to contest it. Since you're big on documentation and proof, ca$h (which I fully respect), here's mine.

http://www.consumerreports.org/main/...lder_id=113261

I apologize for the obscenely long link.

Please, if you have any proof that the Neon is 'ultra reliable,' I'd love to see it.

But (with the very few exceptions noted in this roundup) I don't think any American compact can hold a candle to Honda, Toyota or Subaru.

You can all have your j-bodies an Neons. If I want a compact, I want it for economy. GM and Chrysler don't even enter the picture, in my opinion.

No offencse there, but the information in that link is rediculous, as all consumer reports info is. The Ford F150 is not a rliable truck. My sister had one that accumulated a number of problems, including water and oil mixing inside the engine as well as transmission problems. Both were replaced and the truck still didn't run right. After 4 breakdowns at low milage, they decided to get rid of it. They upgraded to a silverado 1500, listed under the unreliable cars section, which has proven to be a much bettter truck. I'm not taking sides, nor do I meen to deviate from the current argument, but just to let you know, consumer reports Doesn't provide very accurate information.

Originally posted by Green1995SVX


All J bodies feature a 2.2L DOHC "ECOTEC" engine which was co-designed with Lotus and introduced in the 2002 Model year. How could this be outdated when it was just introduced?

Mike

My mistake. I read quite a bit about the new ecotec in SCC, its a pretty good engine. However, the engine that previously resided between the fenders of Jbodies is a piece of junk. Basically, its a 1980s Quad 4.

- Ca$h

[Mr. Pockets]

Look, if the Neon is really a super-reliable car, that's fine. But I want some sort of independent documentation of the claim before I just believe you because you say so. So far, you have provided me with none.

Although I will again say that the ratings I have found suggest that, aside from the engine, supposed electircal problems, peeling paint and interior problems, the car is basically reliable.

"In fact... I can think of another car that has MORE problems that are even more expensive (transmissions dying, rear wheel bearings) that SOMEHOW, SOMEWAY, people don't automatically say "Oh those are POSs the transmissions always blow up!". I mean...has Subaru ever even completely fixed the problem with the SVXs transmissions? Nope. Yet magazines won't mark the SVX as horribly unreliable. Why? Its an import, thats why."

I think that's grossly inaccurate. Nobody reports on the SVX's problems because there's no money in it. Not enough people are buying them. Why spend the money writing and printing an article that nobody's going to read?

I call my SVX reliable because it has been. I imagine that you defend the Neon for the same reason. I don't defend the SVX for the basic reason that it's an import. As far as I know, imports still have a bad rep in most of the country. Cripes, I used to work with a guy who told me that all Japanese cars were deathtraps. His word - I'm not kidding. When I confronted him with the NHTSA and IIHS safety ratings, he claimed that Japanese cars were tested with lighter dummies. I'm not kidding. Those are the kinds of things that a large percentage of people in this country believe about imported cars. Not to mention the 'patriot' argument.

Originally posted by Green1995SVX
You know, everyone... I just wanted to post a little news since it was somewhat important to me and a few others. I didnt mean to start such an uprising. And I certanly didnt want an attack on j-bodies. My cav is my baby. I value it more than anything I have, and It is difficult for me to not be offended when someone makes an attack on something so close to home. My cav has no chrome wheels, playboy bunny stickers, OR neons.

Mike

>shrug< I'm speaking generally here. Yes, I have seen a FEW nice cavaliers, but the majority of them are owned by morons (same with dodge avengers... what is it with people getting avengers and putting huge 747 wings on them?!?! YECH!!!!!!!!

Anyway, congrats on your cav, as I'm sure YOU have good taste, but the majority of the cav community does not. :|

- Ca$h