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  #46  
Old 12-07-2006, 05:01 PM
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Apologies

The tears of a crocodile, would simply raise a smile.
A harsh bite like an alligator, and all might say see you later.

Stay did our mole in a bottomless hole.
For such an endless pack of lies, how could one apologise.

What could now be done to stop it, now that he had begun to cop it.
Crowned head had been shown void, when it came to understanding
a simple solenoid.

How hated was this costly thread, if it could only be put to bed.
Much too late for reason, it was now the silly season.

A missed pistol shot, was climbing to the top.
The target seamed much larger, when on his donkey charger.
Sitting on his ass, how had all this come to pass?

Now holding a cleft stick, royalty felt rather sick.
Obviously too late to be wise, how could he now apologise?

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Trevor, New Zealand.

As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit!
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  #47  
Old 12-15-2006, 01:20 PM
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Wink

Those watching may elsewhere observe, a different form of curve.
Time now to divert, as all are on alert.

Not attempt a straight reply, better the shy slight of eye.
There must be another option, very worthy of adoption.

One can always manipulate, when there’s not room to stipulate.
The problem is to vindicate, a self inflicted sorry fate.

A series of excuses, might maybe loose the nooses.
I did not understand, a good tune for the wagon band.

But it is essential to overt, all from the obviously covert.
Several threads are now involved, these errors must be resolved.

Now the latest post of interest, shows even greater incest.
The thread is so cross threaded, that it is truly to be dreaded.

Facing the back of his ass, is this author of so much crass.
Again it has been spoken, that a “C” solenoid , is normally open.

Fail safe is an essential feature for every SVXy sort of creature.
But the application of the principal, is not obvious to our king invincible.

A reversal of his thinking, could prevent still further sinking,
For the world is truly round, as later will be surely found.

Watch all posts for the real oil, not good is any useless toil.
Correct and honest information, the essence of tranny transformation.

In spite ot this awful messy business, I wish all a very merry Christmas.
For the king in his upwards hole, may the bells off christmas truly toll.

May the new year come to pass with our king frontal on his ass,
learned and fully corrected and not otherwise rejected.

An honest correction, ensures non rejection,
stubborn insistence, Incessant resistance.

May the stupid stubborn old mole, in honesty crawl out of his hole.
Even with legs on his belly, not known to outlaw Ned Kelly.
To enjoy much endless cheer and a very happy New Year.

To end without plea, I now sign QED.
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As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit!
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  #48  
Old 12-15-2006, 06:11 PM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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End Of Line.

Well I think there is enough information contained in this thread, for readers to decide, if these posts of Trevor’s have any merit or not.
Thanks for reading this far.

Harvey.
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  #49  
Old 12-15-2006, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oab_au
Well I think there is enough information contained in this thread, for readers to decide, if these posts of Trevor’s have any merit or not.
Thanks for reading this far.

Harvey.
As expected and as is usual, a side step and bluff, rather than a direct reply to the topic.

I have confidence that readers here, have sufficient intellect to separate the truth from BS. Additional exact information can be found in this thread.

http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/show...306#post442306
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As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit!

Last edited by Trevor; 12-15-2006 at 07:30 PM.
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  #50  
Old 12-16-2006, 02:54 PM
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The Merit of the posts behold, stand upon the facts as told.
Facts now proven by the humble, in spite of a persistent jumble.

The king in morals is sadly lacking, moderators must consider time for sacking.
Not once has he been able, to back his rubbish as fact or fable.

He has now descended to covert deceit, hoping all may fall upon his feat.
Self assuming all are thick and will succumb to a silly trick.

The network has been badly painted, old time honesty nasty tainted.
No one seems to give a care, a distinctive smell is in the air.

Quackery click so easy and quick, the king nets space at random.
Selfish and sly ego on high, our Chris he surely does abandon.

The commoner has guns loaded, now that he been unfairly goaded.
Evidence and facts a plenty, backed up by trade and gentry.

Now quickens the pace, so all watch this space, could this be the end of a torrid race?
Even stuck in the mud, not the woodwork, will royalty defend a claim of good work?
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Trevor, New Zealand.

As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit!

Last edited by Trevor; 12-16-2006 at 09:24 PM.
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  #51  
Old 12-16-2006, 06:35 PM
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Trevor Trevor is offline
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Harvey,

I have lately spent some time at a second transmission specialists workshop, where actual system operation was practically demonstrated using a test rig. (Do not again sarcastically suggest a local garage, for it does you no credit.)

This included operation of the C solenoid, whereby exact function was demonstrated using a PWM generator. The valve moved as I have stated many times, in synchronism with the signal as expected, resulting in a pulsating through flow output stream.

I now have on hand a full set of sample valves, so as to verify exact construction and operation.

To continue jousting, sitting on an ass, facing its ass, and as a result to state the operation ot the system ass about face, is stupid.

A qualified engineer understands the requirements of a fail safe system, hence the use of normally closed valves In both instances.

I and others, would be interested to learn as to whether you can provide equal evidence.
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As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit!
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  #52  
Old 12-18-2006, 04:47 PM
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Deeper than the hole of Calcutta, the guy is a crazy nutter.
Down, down goes his hole, maybe the search is coal.

Required is the skill of a miner, not that of a water deviner.
Will in the end it be found, that indeed his earth is round?

It has now come to pass in this a story of an ass,
that at this point in time, the king has reached end of line.
There is now enough to hang him, no need to sweat and bang him.

Heavenwards to level ten, went a message to a wizard’s den.
King Harvey in his state of rapture, is unable to match a wizards stature.

So all good folk in doubt of Trevor, should read below thus satisfied forever.
Maybe this what the king found, after digging so deep in the ground.


E-mail correspondence with LEVEL TEN , Hamburg, New Jersey, USA, Specialists in Performance Transmission Systems.
Dated, 16 - 17 Dec. 2006.

(On request these messages can be forwarded to any member requiring confirmation regarding authenticity.)

Quote --- e-mail messages:-

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Trevor R. Sheffield [mailto:trevshef@xtra.co.nz]
> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 5:12 AM
> To: support@levelten.com
> Subject: 4EAT
>
> You are acknowledged experts in respect of automotive transmissions and I therefore am approaching you for a favour in respect of kindly advice.
>
> I am involved with a Subaru Car Club and am writing up information covering the often used 4EAT transmission system. There is a point which is not made exactly clear within information I have been able to obtain, and there is some debate regarding the subject.
>
> It is my understanding that the PWM solenoid valves incorporated for line pressure, center clutch and lock up control, are all normally closed devices. i.e. When the solenoid is not energised fluid pressure is restricted/shut off. When energised the valve opens and passes fluid to a drain.
>
> It would be greatly appreciated it if you could confirm that I am correct, or if not the actual configuration applicable.
>
> Special thanks in anticipation,
>
> Trevor R. Sheffield,
> 16A Seaside Ave., Waterview,
> Auckland,1026, New Zealand.
> PHONE-- 00 64 09 8208553
> trevshef@xtra.co.nz
>

> From: Level Ten <info@levelten.com>
> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 06:03:01 -0500
> To: "'Trevor R. Sheffield'" <trevshef@xtra.co.nz>
> Subject: RE: 4EAT
>
> To Trevor
>
> Great question? You are correct. When not energized they are restricted/shut off.
>
> Pat


Special thanks Pat,

Your so very prompt reply is very much appreciated.

Compliments of the season, Trevor.


Pat,

As you have been so very helpful could you please confirm something else for me i.e. That the normally closed PWM solenoid valves move in synchronism with their respective modulated signal.
There has been a suggestion made that they are held open and stationery at variable increments, in order to control pressure. Weird I know, but an argument I must put to rest.

I hope I am not being a nuisance. Again thanks, Trevor.


To Trevor

The pwm solenoid is pulsed from 0% - 100%.
If you have any more question feel free to ask.

Pat

End of Messages.


Knows his stuff does Pat, there is no doubt of that.

The flat earth of the king, has been such a silly thing.
Like his mind and its fling, or a bird on the wing.

Truth did win out with one hell of a clout.
Even though attempted was the law to flout.

So happy the people stand in laughter.
Story to end with a happy hereafter.
He who had the last laugh, was not the grafter.

But will the King surrender, or go on another stupid bender.
The honest always quickly apologise, though this may mean bowing to the wise.

Dead and buried no hope of glory is a sad end to any fairy story.
But do not hold breath in offing, hoping for a rise from the coffin.

The efforts towards deception, continue without exception.
But in spite of efforts to deceive, this is not easy to achieve.
Useless explaining to one who cannot comprehend, better that he read this fairy story to its end.

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As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit!
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  #53  
Old 12-19-2006, 02:41 PM
SVXsnubb SVXsnubb is offline
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Solenoids A-C and signals

I have read most of discussion about the line pressure and the shift kit with interesst.

The dispute between Trevor and Harvey have much been about how the solenoid works. The latest informatin Trevor got was that "all A,B and C solenoid are normally closed".
A and B are normally closed, but C is normally open. The valve C can be different on US spec car, I don t know.
I have just checked them. I have all the parts on the work shop in this days.

The discussion about the electric signals
Because of some problem with the transmission I made a test of the signal with a ossiloscope. It is a pulsing signal at about 50 Hz that comes from the TCU.
The line pressure was also checked by a pressure gauge.
The pressure is smooth at low trottle opening (about 5kg/cm2)
At full trottle opening there are visibel ripple from the signal and valves.

I think this confirm what sort of electric signal it is and how the valves works.
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  #54  
Old 12-19-2006, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVXsnubb
I have read most of discussion about the line pressure and the shift kit with interesst.

The dispute between Trevor and Harvey have much been about how the solenoid works. The latest informatin Trevor got was that "all A,B and C solenoid are normally closed".
A and B are normally closed, but C is normally open. The valve C can be different on US spec car, I don t know.
I have just checked them. I have all the parts on the work shop in this days.

The discussion about the electric signals
Because of some problem with the transmission I made a test of the signal with a ossiloscope. It is a pulsing signal at about 50 Hz that comes from the TCU.
The line pressure was also checked by a pressure gauge.
The pressure is smooth at low trottle opening (about 5kg/cm2)
At full trottle opening there are visibel ripple from the signal and valves.

I think this confirm what sort of electric signal it is and how the valves works.
The "C" solenoid valve in 4AUT transmissions is normally closed. The valve is shut when the solenoid is not energised and opens to a drain when energised. All A,B and C solenoid valves are mechanically and electrically the same. Level Ten are experts as are the others I have interviewed. I have a C valve in my hand at this moment and it is clearly normally closed.

However this discussion has in the main been with reference to US and other cars which have a centre clutch rather than a LSD centre differntial. Does your car have a centre differential? Also please check again, as your valve may be jammed or the seat damaged and therefore it is not closing properly.

Thank you for additional confirmation regarding the PWM signal, having checked it with an oscilloscope as I have done several years ago.
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As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit!

Last edited by Trevor; 12-19-2006 at 04:54 PM.
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  #55  
Old 12-20-2006, 12:10 PM
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It would now appear that in every important aspect Harvey may have been wrong in his statements regarding the transmission. Also that I may have been silly to accept that in at least one item he has been correct; i.e. that the A, B and C solenoid valves are of similar configuration.

We now could also have the exact answer in respect of Harvey's again wrong theory that there is a difference between the transfer valves in the US and JDM systems. Rest assured that I will be following this matter up towards a final and exact conclusion.
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As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit!
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  #56  
Old 12-20-2006, 12:41 PM
SVXsnubb SVXsnubb is offline
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C-solenoid again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor
The "C" solenoid valve in 4AUT transmissions is normally closed. The valve is shut when the solenoid is not energised and opens to a drain when energised. All A,B and C solenoid valves are mechanically and electrically the same. Level Ten are experts as are the others I have interviewed. I have a C valve in my hand at this moment and it is clearly normally closed.

However this discussion has in the main been with reference to US and other cars which have a centre clutch rather than a LSD centre differntial. Does your car have a centre differential? Also please check again, as your valve may be jammed or the seat damaged and therefore it is not closing properly.

Thank you for additional confirmation regarding the PWM signal, having checked it with an oscilloscope as I have done several years ago.

I checked it again. The solenoid C is normaly open. I can blow air thru when it is not energized but close when energized. The steel-ball in the front is free from the seat when it is not energized. When energized the "piston" push
foward the ball to the seat.
My SVX has center differential.

There is one thing I wonder about. For those cars with center diff.
Is the center clutch activated when the car is driven at a nornal speed on a plain road? If not the solenoid drains the pilot pressure in a such case (according to the schematic drawing)
It is of cause quite different for cars without center differential.
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  #57  
Old 12-20-2006, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVXsnubb
I checked it again. The solenoid C is normaly open. I can blow air thru when it is not energized but close when energized. The steel-ball in the front is free from the seat when it is not energized. When energized the "piston" push
foward the ball to the seat.
My SVX has center differential.

There is one thing I wonder about. For those cars with center diff.
Is the center clutch activated when the car is driven at a nornal speed on a plain road? If not the solenoid drains the pilot pressure in a such case (according to the schematic drawing)
It is of cause quite different for cars without center differential.
Thank you Lars your presence in this thread is appreciated.



All the C solenoids I have examined do not incorporate a ball as some of the normally open 1, 2, and 3 solenoids do. Some makes of the latter appear to have the armature directly facing onto the valve seat whereas others incorporate a ball. It could be that the same applies in respect of solenoids A, B and C.

I intend obtaining a sample C solenoid locally from a used JDM transmission so that we can compare notes.

Edit P.S. I have checked with a specialist solenoid supplier and it appears that there are four different C solenoids listed for the 4EAT transmission. I am also advised that there are errors in Subaru parts lists which further complicate matters. Investigation continues.

The centre LSD clutch would not normally be operated on a plane straight road as you say, when power distribution is 36.4% front, 63.6% rear. However the PWM signal is available, and comes into operation to improve driving stability when required under various driving conditions.

Compliments of the season, Trevor.
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As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit!

Last edited by Trevor; 12-20-2006 at 04:29 PM.
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  #58  
Old 12-21-2006, 11:08 AM
SVXsnubb SVXsnubb is offline
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Type of solenoid C

Tank you for answer.
There are obviously more then one type of C-solenoid.
If you or other person on the net want to make further investigation about the solenoid C, here I have some data about it.
The unit in my car has a code on the back side LD 191 an one at the bracket CDA 19.
The transmission type is TZ102YP1BA, and serie no 742180

Merry Christmas
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  #59  
Old 12-21-2006, 05:21 PM
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Thanks again Lars,

Your interest in things technical is much appreciated.

Have a nice Christmas and a happy New Year.

Trevor.
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As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit!
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  #60  
Old 12-22-2006, 06:46 PM
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Christmas Fairy

Trevor has lied he must go back to college, for it is I who have all the knowledge.

Not in my class are my words on line, he must bow to me all of the time.

Withdraw your post and all lend an ear, only to the advice of an alleged engineer.

Lie did the king it was truly found, lie now he does in stony ground.

He riseth not from a deep laid coffin, claim as he may to be an engineering boffin.

All be on guard and look to the rear, for the ghostly sight of an alleged engineer.

From his thick skin the king continues to post, he has a hide you see much thicker than most.

An apology would be a true Christmas token, for then it could be a gentleman has spoken.

Even though at this point in time, it could hardly be very genuine.

A king’s Christmas in dark and all shame, what a sad, end to an under arm game.

Harvey have some Christmas cheer, maybe a much less deceitful New Year.
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As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit!
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