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  #16  
Old 05-08-2006, 08:28 PM
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dannmarr dannmarr is offline
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Actually, oil should only be found in the compressor. But occasionally oil will travel with the refrigerant if the oil isn't warm enough to separate from the refrigerant.
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  #17  
Old 05-09-2006, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannmarr
Actually, oil should only be found in the compressor. But occasionally oil will travel with the refrigerant if the oil isn't warm enough to separate from the refrigerant.
That is why you need to flush the lines. You don't want that oil to make its way back to the compressor after the conversion.
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  #18  
Old 05-09-2006, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benebob
I converted my XT 4 years ago. Just put 134 in it. No cleaning, evacuating etc. Haven't had an issue with it. Have to refill it annually as it leaks out of the low pressure valve and of course with the new fitting on there with lock crap on it there isn't anyway to get it off so since it only costs about $20 a year to fill it until something else goes with the system I'll live with it. Cools fairly nice too but definately not as cool as 12.
The most likely failure will be the compressor with the mixture of oil its pumping around.
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  #19  
Old 05-09-2006, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohrds
The most likely failure will be the compressor with the mixture of oil its pumping around.
And when will this failure occur? Original 1988 AC compressor that runs like a champ 4 years into it. Even better than the rebuilt one on my 95 SVX that was and always was r113a. Not saying it won't happen but then again why spend $300 to get it flushed and all the o-rings replaced when you can get a normal life out of it by not doing it to me it just doesn't make sense.
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  #20  
Old 05-09-2006, 07:28 PM
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1)Compressor failure is due to moisture or uncondensables in the system which cause high head pressure. 2) R12 normally mixes with oil with no problem, but I'm not sure about R134A. 3)The reason for changing the o-rings is that different refrigerants work under different pressures.
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  #21  
Old 05-10-2006, 01:46 AM
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I don't understand why you guys want to mess about with converting the system to R134a. Surely it makes more sense to use one of the R12 replacement gases that you can put in the system without needing to replace any parts or do any conversion work.
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  #22  
Old 05-10-2006, 06:48 AM
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The problem lies in finding a local supplier and complications when needing future work done. None of the shops around me stock anything but R134 and the ones that do AC work either won't let their equipment touch R12 systems or charge an arm and a leg to do so.

KuoH

Quote:
Originally Posted by b3lha
I don't understand why you guys want to mess about with converting the system to R134a. Surely it makes more sense to use one of the R12 replacement gases that you can put in the system without needing to replace any parts or do any conversion work.
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  #23  
Old 05-10-2006, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannmarr
1)Compressor failure is due to moisture or uncondensables in the system which cause high head pressure. 2) R12 normally mixes with oil with no problem, but I'm not sure about R134A. 3)The reason for changing the o-rings is that different refrigerants work under different pressures.
The other reason for changing the O-rings is that the R134a molecules are smaller than the R12 molecules and will pass through the R12 O-rings under the higher pressure that R134a builds up.

R12 systems use the equvelant of Mineral Oil. R134a uses PAG oil. The two are incompatible. Mineral oil will break down at the increased pressure that R134a runs at (10-15% higher discharge pressure).

The other caveot on the SVX is that the condensor was designed for the R12 and is a little too small for use in R134a. If there is a slightly larger condensor that will physically fit in the SVX, that would help the retrofit system cool as well as or better than the original R12.

Doug
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Black over Claret with 2.5" setback spoiler; 202,000 miles; Mods: B&M Cooler
1994 LSi (4/93)
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  #24  
Old 05-10-2006, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b3lha
I don't understand why you guys want to mess about with converting the system to R134a. Surely it makes more sense to use one of the R12 replacement gases that you can put in the system without needing to replace any parts or do any conversion work.
I tried a product called RedTek which was supposed to be compatable with R12. It didn't last. The R134 conversion still works great.
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  #25  
Old 05-10-2006, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohrds
The other reason for changing the O-rings is that the R134a molecules are smaller than the R12 molecules and will pass through the R12 O-rings under the higher pressure that R134a builds up.

R12 systems use the equvelant of Mineral Oil. R134a uses PAG oil. The two are incompatible. Mineral oil will break down at the increased pressure that R134a runs at (10-15% higher discharge pressure).

The other caveot on the SVX is that the condensor was designed for the R12 and is a little too small for use in R134a. If there is a slightly larger condensor that will physically fit in the SVX, that would help the retrofit system cool as well as or better than the original R12.

Doug
I have no leakage out of my 18 year old o-rings on the XT6 It cools just fine. Only leakage is out of the low pressure hose filler fitting. I think the people who say you need all this work have stock in retrofit companies.

As for the SVX condensor, I think its the same for R-12 and r-134a and my SVX when the system is working with a decent pump is overly cool on a 100 degree southeastern summer day.
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  #26  
Old 05-11-2006, 05:57 AM
dcarrb dcarrb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b3lha
I don't understand why you guys want to mess about with converting the system to R134a. Surely it makes more sense to use one of the R12 replacement gases that you can put in the system without needing to replace any parts or do any conversion work.
The only part replaced when mine was converted to 134 was the filter/dryer, which probably should be changed whenever the system is opened, anyway. (I had a failing hose replaced.) Heading into summer #3 (with no subsequent recharge or other AC service) I frequently find myself re-directing the uncomfortably cold airflow away from my hands, and that's in Georgia, y'all. It remains to be seen whether or not I'll end up paying for additional "conversion work" somewhere down the road. As to reports that R134a doesn't cool as well as R12, my experience suggests that the cause of any such problem may lie elsewhere.

dcb
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