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  #1  
Old 04-26-2004, 09:22 AM
deruvian
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Question Damn it! Car won't start!!

This week just really isn't working too nicely for me...

Yesterday, I was checking my engine compartment to see if I had any leaks after replacing my cam seals, crank seals, water pump, radiator fluid, and oil. I noticed that the positive terminal on my battery was all corroded. This has been happening somewhat often, so I decided to replace the terminal connecter. I unscrewed the old one, and put the new one on... Pretty simple.

I continued with my plan to wash and wax my car. After doing so, I tried to start it up. No go.

The car just goes "click click click click" fairly rapidly. I have a battery charger, so I hooked the battery up to it. It was at about 90% charge when initially connected, so I let it charge to 100%. The charger also has a 50amp "start" setting, so I wired up and tried to start the car with that. It sounds like the starter is trying to crank the motor over, but only does it for about 0.5 seconds. The sound is sort of a very sloooow rev.

I checked all the connections... Negative ground, negative terminal, positive terminal, both connections to the starter, and the connection to the alternator. I even tried to clean them a little.

Unfortunately, I now have a new problem: The small post on the alternator broke when I was trying to tighten the nut on it. Does anyone if the post can be replaced without replacing the whole alternator assembly? I just soldered the wires on for the time being.

Any help anyone? Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 04-26-2004, 04:29 PM
deruvian
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Well, never mind everyone. It's fixed. I managed to get someone to help me jump start the car. The battery was running 10v when the car was off and 14v when the car was on. Interestingly, the charger I was using said that it had 75% - 100% charge left

Anyway, I bought a new battery, and all seems to be well. Now I'm just hoping that my alternator is fully functional. I could have been running on just my battery for the last day or two (after reinstalling the alternator), which could explain the sudden failure of the battery.

Or the battery could just be old. Here's hoping!
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  #3  
Old 04-27-2004, 02:35 AM
Svxswede Svxswede is offline
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Just in case I would check that the alternator really is charging, and within its limits. Take a VOM and measure across the battery with ign off. This should show 12 volts approx. Then start the engine an repeat. If the alt is within specs your meter should show 13,5-14,5 volts. If not either something is broke or loose.
You mentioned that you broke a tab at the alt. This might be the rectifier bridge tab. I did this on our Legacy and I had to take the alt apart and get a new bridge. If the bridge is fixable do it directly as otherwise you will permantely ruin that very expensive alt.
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  #4  
Old 04-27-2004, 11:24 PM
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UberRoo UberRoo is offline
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A bad battery can destroy an alternator. A bad alternator can destroy a battery. Very often I see people replace an alternator because it stops working. A few weeks later they replace another alternator...and another, until finally someone suggests they replace the battery. Generally I see people with a weak battery put off buying a new one until they finally smoke their alternator.

When a battery starts going bad, it'll require a lot more juice to charge. The alternator will see that the voltage is low and it will crank up the juice until it gets what it wants. Eventually the alternator will be running at or near peak output. Usually they don't last very long at this capacity. If you replace your battery the moment you suspect it may be failing, you can save yourself a lot of trouble and money.

Buying a battery that's too small can also cause problems. One of my cars is equipped with lots of headlights. They draw nearly 100 amps all by themselves. I use two alternators to keep up with them. With both alternators running simultaneously, (but with the headlights turned off,) my original battery only lasted a couple of months. I think this was because the battery was charged too aggressively. I had another one of about the same size lying around that didn't last much longer. I don't know how much current the SVX draws, but it's alternator is a bit larger than most cars. I would think it's battery should be sized to match.

I've heard a bit of talk about upgrading the ground straps on the SVX. I personally don't put much creed in adding additional wires, but I do believe that using quality battery cables, (both positive and negative,) and making sure all ground straps are also of good quality, (or at least have a good connection,) can make a difference. I've seen big-block muscle cars that crank their motor over rapidly and with ease, fail to start because of a poor battery ground cable which drops the voltage just enough to stifle the ignition.
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  #5  
Old 04-28-2004, 12:05 PM
deruvian
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Very helpful info, UberRoo. Thanks.

I started up my car last night, and everything was fine... Until I turned on the headlights. The battery indicator lamp and the brake light indicator lamp both turned on. I am getting a voltmeter later today to check the battery voltage.

I should check it while the car is off, and then when the car is on, correct? This way I suppose I can compare the voltage difference to see if the alternator is still doing its job.

Does anyone know how to "check" the alternator? I've heard this phrase tossed around a few times. "Dude, you might wanna check the alternator."

So, if my alternator is dying, what would be the best thing to do? I'm an electrical idiot, but understand the concepts... Battery starts car, car runs alternator, alternator charges battery, etc, etc. Would replacing the alternator and the battery be in order? My battery is but a few days old, and I'm not planning on driving with the car in this kind of condition. So if I replaced the alternator or had it rebuilt very soon, the battery should be ok, correct?

Oh, and that reminds me: Is rebuilding an alternator just a bandaid fix, or is it pretty similar to replacing one? Are the differences in cost anything substantial?

Thank you much.
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  #6  
Old 04-28-2004, 12:27 PM
SVXer95 SVXer95 is offline
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Quote:
Does anyone know how to "check" the alternator
With the car running, take a voltmeter to the positive terminal to a good ground. Should read somewhere around 15 volts.

Quote:
So, if my alternator is dying, what would be the best thing to do
Replace the alternator, charge your battery with a charger and see if it will hold a charge. If it does not, then you may need a new one. DO NOT charge a dead battery with the alternator or rev the engine when you first connect the new alternator. This will fry the rectifier. You can also check the battery by popping off the covers and checking the specific gravity of the dielectric in the cells.

Quote:
Is rebuilding an alternator just a bandaid fix, or is it pretty similar to replacing one?
A full rebuild would mean putting all new parts into the old housing. Sometimes a rebuild is just fixing the parts that are bad. Also, most new alternators are just ones that have been rebuilt. That is why there is a core charge when you buy a new alternator. They use your old one, put new parts in it, and sell it as if it were brand new.

Replacement alternators that I have looked at are around $230 and less amp output than stock. I have one of these in my car and it seems to run just fine. Lights may be a bit dim at idle, but not too bad. I usually read around 14v in the car. Can drop below 13 with all accessories running.

If you can get one rebuilt, get them do make it put out over 100 amps. The SVX really needs the extra power.
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Last edited by SVXer95; 04-28-2004 at 12:30 PM.
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  #7  
Old 04-28-2004, 12:46 PM
deruvian
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As I said earlier, I will check the battery and the alternator with a voltmeter. It's coming later today, since I'm not driving to it.

Depending on the voltage and what-not, I may or may not have to make some phone calls.

I think I am going to try to replace the small screw-like post in the top of the alternator. Since it broke off and the eye-terminals for the wires are simply being held by silicone (for now), I think this may be a necessary measure before doing a full rebuild or replacement. Anyone have any advice/input on this?
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  #8  
Old 04-28-2004, 01:54 PM
SVXer95 SVXer95 is offline
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Sounds like a great place to start.
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  #9  
Old 04-28-2004, 09:28 PM
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UberRoo UberRoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by deruvian
...the eye-terminals for the wires are simply being held by silicone...
Fix that ASAP. Forcing your alternator to use a weak connection like that could do a very bad thing - like letting the magic smoke out!

SVXer95 is correct about how to "check" an alternator. One thing I would suggest, is that you turn everything on while doing this test. You should turn on the rear window defogger, heated mirrors, headlights, foglights, ventilation fan, and whatever else you can think of. If you could simultaneously operate all the power seat and power window functions, and wait until the radiator fan comes on, that would be ideal - but just turning on as much as you can will work. By turning on all this stuff, you're also testing the alternator's capacity to handle a large load. It should be able to do this without breaking a sweat. When you take your alternator somewhere to be tested, they basically hook it up to a giant resistor and see what it can do.
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  #10  
Old 04-29-2004, 12:03 AM
deruvian
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Well, I only drove the car with the eye terminals siliconed down for a total of about 30 minutes. I won't be driving the car again any time soon, though. No worries there.

I tested the battery with the car off, and the car on. Approximately 12 - 12.5 volts off, 11 - 11.5 volts on. Looks like my alternator is shot.

I'm going to do some calling around tomorrow to find prices and time estimates. I'm also going to attempt to repair the post for the eye terminals. We'll see how it goes.

Thanks everyone. I'll keep ya posted.
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  #11  
Old 04-29-2004, 04:49 PM
deruvian
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Thumbs up

Weeeeeell, it appears as thought that small post was my problem.

With the alternator removed, I noticed that the post runs into some type of plastic bushing. The back of the bushing has a small circular cover on it. I removed the cover, and underneath it was a small nut. Apparently, this holds the bushing to a screw that runs into the body of the alternator. Once the nut was removed, I could pry off the bushing.

Since the bushing was essentially broken and useless, I sort of *smashed* it open. The post that broke on me simply turns into an eye terminal at the other end.

I put a small rubber gasket over the screw that held the bushing, put the "internals" of the bushing back on, put the alternator back on the engine, and rewired the alternator. Put the bracket and the belt back on, and checked the battery voltage. 12 - 12.5 = good. I crossed my fingers, started the car, and rechecked the battery voltage. 14.5 - 15 = good! I turned on most of the accessories (high beams, fog light switch, cruise switch, stereo w/ volume waaay up, rear defogger, hazard lights, map lights, and door lights. Rechecked the voltage, 14 - 14.5, almost 15ish = good! The battery and brake light indicator lamps stayed off as well.

Anyway, I'm glad I didn't have to toast $200 for a rebuild or $35 for a new bushing. Thanks for the help anyway guys.
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