My Copper Intake Mod

SilverSpear · #1 10-08-2005, 03:41 PM

Finally, my idea became a reality and i successfully built this intake system out of copper for our SVX. I chose copper because it is the best coolant a metal can get.

Installing it as it is in the SVX? Naaaaaaaaaaaaaa, it needs an isolator. for that i chose Amiante as the isolator (you can see it on pic Step 7 and 9). But this small piece isn't the one i am gonna put, i'd rather go the thickest possible and wrap everything up with a rubber tape, on one side it holds all the system together and on the other side it acts too as an isolator.

(PS: Amiante was banned from most countries because it is never healthy and may cause lug diseases, but it is one of the best isolators in the world... Unfortunately it is still being used over here with no governmental supervision

)

Also i should add that the whole system has 2 computer fans inside it to keep it as cool as possible.

One more thing, this is phase 1 of the project, the major part is still to come... STILL TOP SECRET FOR NOW

it will be done most probably by next thursday.

Njoy the Pics: http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/user.php?SilverSpear|30255

Electrophil · #2 10-08-2005, 04:11 PM

But where is the coolant coming from? Are you going to wrap it with refrigerant coils prior to putting on the insulator? I am genuinely curious on how you are going to keep the copper cooler than the incoming air. I'm guessing that is the goal you are after.

pavanbabut · #3 10-08-2005, 05:13 PM

Wow!... Dan thts an awesome piece of work. I am very anxious to see the final result. I never thought of copper being used as metal coolant.

Best of luck with your final product.

-Pavan

RojoRocket · #4 10-08-2005, 05:13 PM

Quote:

(PS: Amiante was banned from most countries because it is never healthy and may cause lug diseases, but it is one of the best isolators in the world...

SilverSpear

Wow!! Are these lug diseases usually fatal to those of us changing too many tires or what? Danny, you constantly crack me up!

I can't wait to hear the next TOP SECRET installment!!

Glenn

SilverSpear · #5 10-08-2005, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electrophil

But where is the coolant coming from? Are you going to wrap it with refrigerant coils prior to putting on the insulator? I am genuinely curious on how you are going to keep the copper cooler than the incoming air. I'm guessing that is the goal you are after.

Phil, the purpose of this intake i designed, is to keep the incoming air as cooled as when it gets into the car.

Now the second step of the project is to cool the incoming air to the max.
This will be the true challenge of this mod. and will need accurate work to get it done correctly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pavanbabut

Wow!... Dan thts an awesome piece of work. I am very anxious to see the final result. I never thought of copper being used as metal coolant.

Best of luck with your final product.

-Pavan

Pav, aluminum radiators are often replaced with copper ones. They are very much used and manufactured over here... I dunno if the same is in the States. Also there was a thread about this subject (if i still recall) to identify the best metal that should be used for cooling...

Quote:

Originally Posted by RojoRocket

SilverSpear

Wow!! Are these lug diseases usually fatal to those of us changing too many tires or what? Danny, you constantly crack me up!

I can't wait to hear the next TOP SECRET installment!!

Glenn

Glenn, thank you for the compliment... I am glad that I am a JOKE to U. Even though we have different mentalities from different cultures and me trying to blend in yours, I will pretend i never read your reply concerning the part not directly related to my project. As for the Top Secret thing, well as a JOKE-r around here, i am trying to Enjoy the things i do more than taking stuff seriously... like this quote..

RojoRocket · #6 10-08-2005, 07:24 PM

Danny, Please don't misread my reply. I am interested in what you're doing, and do NOT mean any scorn. Our cultural differences mean nothing to me as we all express our love for this unusual automobile, and express it in our own way. Please forgive any past offense I may have thrown your direction. Our approaches may be different, but I read your posts with interest and enjoy your passion for the SVX. I meant this post in a light and humorous way. I was playing with the words and did not mean to offend.

Glenn

Treppiede · #7 10-08-2005, 10:56 PM

The material mentioned by SilverSpear is known as "Asbestos" (I know because in Italy we call it "Amianto", so I recognized the word and found its translation). That is the material that was used to make firefighter's uniforms a long time ago, at least in Europe, before they found out it's highly carcinogenic. For more info, check this out.

SilverSpear, I hope that electric fan was a joke. Its presence in your intake tract will be more of an obstacle to entering air than provide any help. Other than that, this mods looks interesting, I would like to see pics of the final install, keep us posted.

Walter

pavanbabut · #8 10-08-2005, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treppiede

SilverSpear, I hope that electric fan was a joke. Its presence in your intake tract will be more of an obstacle to entering air than provide any help.
Walter

I too hope the same and also PC fans r not tht much capable like tht of a blower.. so it remains like a little obstacle rather than blowing air into it...

-Pavan

SilverSpear · #9 10-09-2005, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RojoRocket

Danny, Please don't misread my reply. I am interested in what you're doing, and do NOT mean any scorn. Our cultural differences mean nothing to me as we all express our love for this unusual automobile, and express it in our own way. Please forgive any past offense I may have thrown your direction. Our approaches may be different, but I read your posts with interest and enjoy your passion for the SVX. I meant this post in a light and humorous way. I was playing with the words and did not mean to offend.

Glenn

No offense taken... I took you words literally... this is my problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treppiede

The material mentioned by SilverSpear is known as "Asbestos" (I know because in Italy we call it "Amianto", so I recognized the word and found its translation). That is the material that was used to make firefighter's uniforms a long time ago, at least in Europe, before they found out it's highly carcinogenic. For more info, check this out.

SilverSpear, I hope that electric fan was a joke. Its presence in your intake tract will be more of an obstacle to entering air than provide any help. Other than that, this mods looks interesting, I would like to see pics of the final install, keep us posted.

Walter

Walter, this fan is not a joke... i have already tested it for one hour and believe me, even though it is not much capable, the copper kept getting cooler and cooler until i stopped it. Anyways when i install the system in my car, if I see that it is causing any problems, i will take it out... The fans' purposes are solely to keep the incoming air as cool as it gets into the system.

kuoh · #10 10-09-2005, 07:22 AM

I think we all understand the purpose here, but what's missing is the theory of operation.

You say that the copper intake is to get the incoming air as cool as possible, but how does the copper wrapped in asbestos accomplish that? True copper is a good conductor of heat, but since it's wrapped in an insulator, once it has absorbed as much heat as possible, which wouldn't take very long, it will no longer be able to cool the air since it has no way of dissapating it through the insulator. If the aim is to keep the engine from heating up the intake, then you could accomplish the same thing by wrapping the asbestos around the original plastic intake. The copper does nothing in this respect.

As for the fans in the intake, they may cool the copper by convection when the car is not running, but like others have said, it becomes just another obstruction when the engine is actively taking in air. You said it kept getting cooler, but what were the conditions leading to that observation? Did you use a temperature sensor and measure it in the car with and without the fans installed? Or did you just have the intake on the shop table and put your hand on the copper with the fans running? It makes a real difference on the outcome.

KuoH

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverSpear

The fans' purposes are solely to keep the incoming air as cool as it gets into the system.

Electrophil · #11 10-09-2005, 10:18 AM

I think our friend silver here has something up his sleeve. I think he's going to wrap cooling coils on it prior to the insulation. I'm waiting for the secret part to drop on the table.

SilverSpear · #12 10-09-2005, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electrophil

I think our friend silver here has something up his sleeve. I think he's going to wrap cooling coils on it prior to the insulation. I'm waiting for the secret part to drop on the table.

cooling coils? NO !!!, just give me some more time and you'll see.

#13 10-09-2005, 02:02 PM

Hey silverspear I am new the the forum have many subarus but unfortunatly no SVX as of right now. I am buiding a Twin Turbo ER27. That is a neat project with the intake the only problem I see is this. You are using the copper to disipate the heat inside of the intake and in other words cool the intake charge down. The thing is since copper is such a good thermoconductor it is going to take ALL the heat coming off of the engine and transfer it into your intake charge. In order for you to combat the high temp of the engine transfering into your intake it will take a lot more the a few small fans to remove that heat. I am sure you probably have a trick up your sleave but just keep this in mind. I cant wait to see what you are going to do with this. I just wanted to give you a heads up.

SilverSpear · #14 10-09-2005, 02:27 PM

mmm... again i post, I will cover it with Amiante (Asbestos) and isolate the metal places of contact with copper... I have already tested it alone, the copper covered with a thin layer of asbestos, still heat reached the copper, so i need a thicker layer. So i will try to dig for the thickest i can find over here and wrap everything up with rubber ribbon. I am still guessing the fans' purposes are just to keep the incoming air as cooled as it is when entering the system.

I have tested the system guys with my hair dryer (it has Hot/Cold switch). So i covered the thing with a thin layer of asbestos and on the outside i used an electric heater over the system and coming through it is the cold air from my dryer. for the first 30 mins, everything was ok until heat started to affect copper. I knew then that a thicker piece of asbestos is required (I was told that there is a layer thicker by at least 8 times the one i used and which can be folded easily without cracking up). And finally the rubber tape. It will do the trick.

Keep your fingers crossed for me.

#15 10-09-2005, 06:18 PM

Cool. Is the copper going to come into contact with the engine? This was what I was concerned about. The ambiant temperature of the engine bay is not as much of a concern as the engine transfering heat through direct contact into the manifold.

The best way to design a manifold is to remove ALL heating capabilities, in other words prevent any hot air from getting into the intake. There is really no way to remove heat lower than ambiant temperature from the intake air, this includes intercoolers. Intercoolers lower charged temps to ambiant temp. The only real way to lower the intake charge are methods like methanol, alcohol, ice pack ect.

Look at all the new intakes on the 2.5 GT, they are made of composite. The reason for this is to keep all the engine temperatures whether it be direct contact or radiation heat from getting into the intake charge.

Tell you the truth I hope your method works! I have been studying intake designs and intake temperatures for quite a while now and I plan on going with a carbonfiber intake for its strength and its low temperature transfer rate.