Roll of the dice election

[ensteele]

If you want to think that you came from pond scum, that is fine with me. I find that more difficult to believe than being created with intelligent design along with all of the other incredible creatures of this world. That would be like blowing up boxes of newspapers and getting a dictionary to appear without the help from a designer.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by ensteele

If you want to think that you came from pond scum, that is fine with me. I find that more difficult to believe than being created with intelligent design along with all of the other incredible creatures of this world. That would be like blowing up boxes of newspapers and getting a dictionary to appear without the help from a designer.

separation of church and state.

i don't care what anyone believes, but that stuff doesn't belong in public schools.

[greggbzz]

Originally Posted by ensteele

If you want to think that you came from pond scum, that is fine with me. I find that more difficult to believe than being created with intelligent design along with all of the other incredible creatures of this world. That would be like blowing up boxes of newspapers and getting a dictionary to appear without the help from a designer.

Well why not accept the whole doctrine then? Teach the whole Bible (or any other holy book) in science class as the only way things are. You down with that?

Or, does picking and choosing which parts "seem right" to you make more sense?

We lived and learned like that once and some parts of the world still do. I think we can all agree it ain't good.

Sigh.. I will agree that life is.. well, life's greatest mystery.
But the way to learn about the world around you is with science, not by presuming to know the answers without really knowing the answers.

I stopped being afraid of not knowing a long time ago. Consider me an agnostic republican.

BTW this debate is as old as time. There's no sense taking anything personally.

[ensteele]

Originally Posted by greggbzz

Well why not accept the whole doctrine then? Teach the whole Bible (or any other holy book) in science class as the only way things are. You down with that?

Or, does picking and choosing which parts "seem right" to you make more sense?

We lived and learned like that once and some parts of the world still do. I think we can all agree it ain't good.

Sigh.. I will agree that life is.. well, life's greatest mystery.
But the way to learn about the world around you is with science, not by presuming to know the answers without really knowing the answers.

I stopped being afraid of not knowing a long time ago. Consider me an agnostic republican.

BTW this debate is as old as time. There's no sense taking anything personally.

I know that this debate is as old as old can be. I find it difficult to look at everything as it is and not think that there is some intelligent design behind it all.

As far as seperation of Church and State. That is the way most people want to use the phrase, but that isn't what it meant back when it was written. It meant that the State would not select what religion people would believe in. The state did sponsor religious things and religion was a big part of what this country was founded on and what gave us many of our rights of today.

[lhopp77]

Need I say it????? Evolution as taught is still a THEORY!!!! Why close your minds to any other possibility??? It almost borders on some type of religious fanaticism to think that humans really swam in the ocean at one point and then crawled on the land finally to develop in to what we are today. Wouldn't you say???

Lee

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by ensteele

I find that more difficult to believe than being created with intelligent design along with all of the other incredible creatures of this world. That would be like blowing up boxes of newspapers and getting a dictionary to appear without the help from a designer.

where did the "designer" come from?

Originally Posted by lhopp77

It almost borders on some type of religious fanaticism to think that humans really swam in the ocean at one point and then crawled on the land finally to develop in to what we are today. Wouldn't you say???

[greggbzz]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

Need I say it????? Evolution as taught is still a THEORY!!!! Why close your minds to any other possibility??? It almost borders on some type of religious fanaticism to think that humans really swam in the ocean at one point and then crawled on the land finally to develop in to what we are today. Wouldn't you say???

Lee

It's a scientific theory. That has it's own special meaning. One day we might find something better. My mind is open. However, since ID is not a scientific theory, I can't test it's validity, so how do I know it's better? Because someone with a nice outfit says so? Lee, learn the scientific method. Really learn it.

I can babble on about all of this, but it still remains that ID cannot be tested, it cannot be validated, I've never seen any experiment that can do this. There have been many experiments in medical science, genealogy, biology etc.. that validate evolution. You can them whenever.

People will believe all different things, and it's a deeply intimate and personal decision. I will never disrespect that. But failure to understand how science works is ignorance.

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by greggbzz

It's a scientific theory. That has it's own special meaning. One day we might find something better. My mind is open. However, since ID is not a scientific theory, I can't test it's validity, so how do I know it's better? Because someone with a nice outfit says so? Lee, learn the scientific method. Really learn it.

I can babble on about all of this, but it still remains that ID cannot be tested, it cannot be validated, I've never seen any experiment that can do this. There have been many experiments in medical science, genealogy, biology etc.. that validate evolution. You can them whenever.

I don't anyone here even begins to advocate that intelligent design REPLACE the theory of evolution, but that it has equal validity until proven otherwise.

By all means--try to prove the theory in any way possible. BUT, at the same time be realistic and let students know at an early age that there are definitely alternative theories. Until proven otherwise it has as much validity as the evolution theory.

Asking where the "designer" came from has the same place in the issue as "where did life come from"?

Lee
PAC

[SomethingElse]

Choices suck as usual. The way I see it, if the old white hair guy who dont know how to use a computer wins, everything will continue to go the way it has been going for the past 8 years...If Osama wins, he can mix the pot up a little bit.

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by SomethingElse

Choices suck as usual. The way I see it, if the old white hair guy who dont know how to use a computer wins, everything will continue to go the way it has been going for the past 8 years...If Osama wins, he can mix the pot up a little bit.

Sounds like the democratic party line to me--I still fail to see how ANYONE can say that McCain is even marginally like Bush on most things. He has ALWAYS been known as a maverick and has many MORE joint legislative efforts with the democrats than any combined efforts in the other direction. About the only thing he is consistent with Bush is the war on terror--and thats a no brainer.

He obviously does follow more of the republican philosophy, but is a long ways from being the same as Bush. And Palin of course took on the republican party corruption and good old boy network, so she is not the same. The democratic leadership should figure out that "four more of the same" message is falling on deaf ears for anyone other than the voters they were already going to get. Just because you are not a far lefter does not mean that you are stupid.

Lee

[NikFu S.]

Evolution is NOT a theory of abiogenesis, evolution DOES NOT disrupt ID creation uh... myths. It does call a few facts into question, sure, like the age of the world, but evolution and even scientific abiogensis theories can coexist with an intelligent design... belief.

Nobody here came from pond scum, or a rock. Life is the result of the affinities between proteins and amino acids, that has been proven. Everyone came from their parents who was a lot like you, but slightly different. Selection and adaptation and mutation is constant. Evolution has been witnessed and more or less proven. If you want to believe there is an unseen "hand" aiding these processes, go ahead.
Science has undergone many revolutions, why not religion? Why cling to a system written by people with no sense of scale who would think a lightbulb is magic?

I know this is hard to swallow, but my belief is life is a random occurrence, though I also believe the world is "designed" to support it, and I doubt it is uncommon in the universe. What is the point of the universe if not for life, I say.

Anyway, here is something fun to watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcAq9bmCeR0

[SomethingElse]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

Sounds like the democratic party line to me--I still fail to see how ANYONE can say that McCain is even marginally like Bush on most things. He has ALWAYS been known as a maverick and has many MORE joint legislative efforts with the democrats than any combined efforts in the other direction. About the only thing he is consistent with Bush is the war on terror--and thats a no brainer.

He obviously does follow more of the republican philosophy, but is a long ways from being the same as Bush. And Palin of course took on the republican party corruption and good old boy network, so she is not the same. The democratic leadership should figure out that "four more of the same" message is falling on deaf ears for anyone other than the voters they were already going to get. Just because you are not a far lefter does not mean that you are stupid.

Lee

If you think its necessary to label me a democrat, thats up to you. Ive never had a strong positive feeling for either side. I wanted Ross Perott to win when I was in middle school. Democratic line or not, I think O'bama would have a better chance of making people thinking we are out of this bush rut. even the majority of the world would rather have him. Anyway, when is the last time we had a black president? (movies don't count) would'nt that be interesting? We can never legitimatly here the term.. "its a white mans world" oh snap!

[Royal Tiger]

Obama: Socialisim You Can Believe In!

No Thanks.

[NikFu S.]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

About the only thing he is consistent with Bush is the farce on terror--and thats a no brainer.

That is the main point of contention behind the whole "more of the same" thinking, and that is the biggest issue on a lot of people's minds.

Iraq has little if nothing to do with the "war" on terror, and I maintain that it should not even be called a war.

[gstape]

Logic: the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.

That is, a logical conclusion is not limited to being a scientific conclusion, or scientific conclusions are not the only source of truth.

I could argue that intelligent design is logical, and big bang / evolution is not.

I will grant you that science class may be the wrong place to teach intelligent design / creation...

How about that for my first post here? I've been a reader for several years and have two 1992 SVXs one with 4.44 and one with 4.11 and open rear diff. (did you guys know that you can use a left rear drive shaft on the right and use the Legacy open diff?) ... sorry thats off topic.