Some Subaru History Facts

Originally Posted by tailgatewagon

1800 ej22

you mean 2200?

Originally Posted by UberRoo

I believe I stand corrected. I forgot that they use cap screws instead of studs. In lieu of that argument, it could be argued that they must compromise the use of studs for ease of repair. The Justy is, of course, an exception. (I wonder what they use?) In either case, a Volkswagen Beetle will still require removal because of the use of studs. I reckon that a Porsche is the same way, only those engines require more than a Toys'R'Us tool kit to remove.

Cap screws? The EJ22 uses Bolts like every other new gen subaru engine and you can remove the heads without doing anything with the position of the engine. And yeah it totally depends on the application. The Legacy was MADE to be easy to work on. Most other cars aren't. I wouldn't expect any boxer to be able to remove the heads without removing the engine, but it's possible on some.

[SVX-FF]

Originally Posted by NeedForSpeed

The Pontiac 301 was not a 60 degree engine, and I don't believe GM has ever marketed a 60 degree V8. I believe Ford did, the SHO v8 designed by Yamaha.

Ok then, Why did the Pontiac motor have the same power with a shorter stoke than a Chevy 350?

-301CID 4bbl 150@4000 hp, 240@2000 torque, 4.0 x 3.00, 8.1:1-Pontiac
-350CID 4bbl 150@3800 hp, 260@2400 torque, 4.0 x 3.48, 8.5:1-Chevy

I always thought that it was a 60deg because it too the same water pump as a V-6 60 deg. Or at least I was told that.

Steve

[n00b on demand]

Originally Posted by tailgatewagon

no you dont have to pull the motor to do heads on some subarus, have done many ea81s and ea82s,



here are a list of the motors as i know them

1000,
1100
1300
1400 ea63(quad exhost ports)
1400( dual exhost ports) very differnt motor head wise from above 1400
1600 ea71(both hydrolic lifter and push rod kinds)
1800 ea81 (both hydrolic lifter and push rod kinds)
1800 ea81T(turbo mpfi)
1800 ea82
1800 ea82t
2700 er27(ea82with 2 mor cylinders)
1800 ej22
2000 ej20
2500 ej25
3000 (???ez30)
3300 eg33

now subaru also made a 12 cylinder boxer for F1 racing but i dont have pix or anything with that aloth it was on the board before and also on ultimatesubaru.net

hope that helps with your quest,,,,,,

Could you list the cars that go along with those motors....i always wanted to know.

[b3lha]

Originally Posted by UberRoo

The Justy is, of course, an exception. (I wonder what they use?)

The Justy has a 9-valve inline 3 transverse mounted, except for the last two versions which are rebadged PoS Suzukis. The oil and water pumps are mounted either side of the crank shaft and chain driven.

The service manual claims it's perfectly balanced without any need for balancer shafts. It not a smooth engine due to only having 3 cylinders, but I always found the performance superior to that of the 4 cyl 1.2L engines used by Ford, GM, VW etc. I always assumed it was because having fewer cylinders means each cylinder is bigger.

[UberRoo]

I meant whether the Justy uses studs or cap screws to secure the head. ...and yes, I mean screws. Bolts have nuts.

It's quite possible that the Justy has an unusual bore and stroke because of its configuration and application. By application, I mean by virtue of their use with the ECVT, the type of useful power is very different than with a more conventional transmission. Continuously Variable Transmissions don't appreciate torque.

If you want to be technical, there is no engine that is perfectly balanced. A six-cylinder engine allows you to come very close though. In a six, all the major inertial forces have an opposing inertial force, but some minor forces do not. On a three-cylinder motor, you can try to fake it, but the minor inertial forces are not particularly minor. Counter-balancing a reciprocating inertial force with an 'orbital' (off-balance, rotating) inertial force isn't very effective. You'd need some more balance shafts and reciprocating masses to get the job done. If you're going to all that effort, you might as well just put those parts to work by making them into pistons and crankshafts. ...which is what they do, and probably one of many reasons you don't see three-bangers with sophisticated balance shafts and such.

[dcarrb]

Originally Posted by SVX-FF

3.We share the boxer engine with the following cars ; VW Beetle, Porsche 911 and Ferrari 512 Boxer and Testarossa!

The old Chevrolet Corvair (1960s) was powered by an aft-mounted, air-cooled, boxer six.

dcb

[n00b on demand]

The current VW beetle has a boxer engine?

[dcarrb]

Originally Posted by soobiesvx93

The current VW beetle has a boxer engine?

No.

dcb

Originally Posted by svxfiles

And ours are 180 degree V6s .
I believe they use the "V" nomenclature for marketing purposes, as no one understands the benefits oh a horizontally opposed engine.

No they aren't. 180 degree V-engines are not the same as a horizontally opposed engine.

V-engines use offset crank journals, and the corrosponding left to right cylinders do not fire in direct opposition to each other. A horizontally opposed engine's cylinders fire in opposing revolutions (hence the name). If you look at a Subaru or a Porsche crank, the crank journals are nicely opposite one another, whereas on a Ferrari 180-degree V-12, the journals are not only staggered, but they are offset between the counterweights as well. Ferrari used the same design rationale as Subaru and Porsche - lower center of gravity, although in Ferrari's case the move backfired. To maintain a reasonable wheelbase, the gearbox of the 512/BB and the TR is mounted in the oil pan underneath the engine, making it about as tall as the average V-12, and much, much wider. We have one in our shop right now, trust me those suckers are huge.

Ferrari wasn't the only company making this unusual engine - Mercedes used a 180-degree V-12 in certain Group C race cars in the late '80s as well.

Originally Posted by soobiesvx93

Could you list the cars that go along with those motors....i always wanted to know.

Here's the late ones anyhow:

1600 ea71 - All EA71s are pushrod, the lifters are either mechanical or hydraulic. Most variations of the sedan/wagon/coupe/hatch and Brat
1800 ea81 - Same as the EA71, all pushrod. Upper-trim level sedan/wagon/coupe/hatch and Brat variations.
1800 ea81T(turbo mpfi) Turbo versions of the aforementioned models
1800 ea82 - SOHC 8 valve version of the EA81. Powered most variations of what would become known as the Loyale/Leone and lower-trim versions of the XT.
1800 ea82t - Turbo version of the above.
2700 er27(ea82with 2 mor cylinders) SOHC 12 valve. Subaru XT6.
1800 ej22 - Should say EJ18. SOHC 16 valve. Powered early Subaru Imprezas.
2000 ej20 - Should say EJ205. DOHC 16 valve turbo. Current Impreza WRX engine.
2200 EJ22 - Adding the EJ22. Bored version of the EJ18. Same stroke. The EJ22E switched from dual port exhaust to single port, got roller rockers as the EJ22EZ, and switched from hydraulic to mechanical lifters and got dual rocker shafts as the EJ221/2. Upper-trim engine for Imprezas, powered early Legacy/Liberty models, the first manual tranny Legacy Outbacks, and later base, postal, and stripper versions of the Legacy.
2200 EJ22T - Turbo version of the EJ22. Distinguished by it's closed-deck block. Powered the 92-94 Legacy Sport Sedan and 93-94 Legacy Touring Wagon.
2500 ej25 - EJ25D and EJ25DZ are DOHC 16 valve. Bored version of the EJ18/22, same stroke. Powered automatic and then later manual versions of the Legacy Outback, Legacy GT and other variations, the Forester, and the Impreza 2.5RS. Later became the EJ251/2/3, with a switch to SOHC dual rocker shaft 16 valve heads, a different crank, and a different block. Some 98/99 Impreza 2.5RS and Outback models were built with the new block, but the old crank and heads. Currently powers all non-WRX/STi Imprezas and most Legacys and Foresters.
2500 EJ257 - DOHC 16 valve turbo with AVCS, variable cam phasing. Impreza STi.
3000 (???ez30) - EZ30R. DOHC 24 valve, with Porsche licensed Variocam Plus heads that offer variable valve lift, also with AVCS, Subaru designed variable cam phasing. Powers some Legacy GT models, and the upcoming Tribeca.
3300 eg33 - DOHC 24 valve. The basic engine is an EJ22 with two more cylinders. Powers the SVX, of course.

The old Alfa Romeo Alfasud and the Alfa Romeo 33 also used a four cylinder boxer engine. The Tucker Torpedo famously used a flat-six, in this case an old helicopter engine. The Czech automaker Tatra, from whom Ferdinand Porsche "borrowed" the ideas for the original Beetle, made boxer engines for years, including a rear-mounted air-cooled flat eight, which lived to the early '90s.

[RSVX]

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EvAr!!

[NeedForSpeed]

Thanks Tofu,
That response is perfect in this Subaru History thread. I do believe that the 2500 was not the same stroke as the 2200. It was bored and stroked. If I am correct, please edit your post and I will delete this. If I am wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

The information you posted would take weeks, if one could find the sources. Thanks again, terrific

[NeedForSpeed]

Tofu,

If I understood you, true horizontal engines have 180 degree opposed cylinders and use 'flat' cranks. While not an opposed engine, the Ferrari V-8s use 'flat' cranks, at least some of them do [355/360?]. I mention this because some of those that modify the SVX exhaust 'hear' a 'little Ferrari', and describe it so.

I understand that flat cranks have intake advantages at mid to high rpms. As mentioned, the flat crank also gives the Ferrari engine a distinct exhaust note. Some racers experimented with 'flat' cranks in small block Chevy, Yunick for Indianapolis, but I don't think that idea really caught on.

If you know anything more about the use of flat cranks in other non-boxer style applications, please continue. This discussion seems appropriate to this thread discussing Subaru engine history as crank orientation does affect intake and exhaust dynamics.

All EJ-Series engines have a stroke of 2.953 inches, or 75mm. The bores for each are as follows:

EJ18: 3.465in, 88mm
EJ22 and EG33: 3.819in, 97mm
EJ25: 3.917in, 99.5mm

Ferrari's V-8 cars dating back to the 308 indeed use flat cranks, as does Volkswagen's rare W-8 powered Passats.

The primary advantage of a flat crank, which is simply defined by the journals being 180-degrees apart from each other (as opposed to 90 degrees like in a typical V-8 for instance) are that the cylinders can be fired in alternating order left to right, which results in higher efficiency in terms of breathing, combustion, and exhaust characteristics.. It also results in a distinctive exhaust note, which is indeed most often referred to as Ferrari-like. The drawbacks are increased noise, vibration, and harshness - not often a complaint in a Ferrari or a race car, more so in a normal passenger car, which is why VW, for instance, used twin balance shafts in the W-8.

Race cars have used flat cranks for years - probably the most famous is the Cosworth DF-1 V-8.

[NeedForSpeed]

Very impressive indeed, you really know your stuff. Thanks for the reply, a volume of info for all of us.

My father worked for Sunnen, since retired, but was working at Indy during the month of May and honed a Cosworth block for one of the teams.

My notes and sources list the stroke of a 2.5 at 3.110"?

[Royal Tiger]

I'm a little late to this thread but I have to correct one thing from the first post. Nakajima did not design the Zero fighter of WWII. It was a Mitsubishi A6M, US code name "Zeke". The Zero comes from the Imperial Navy who classified it as the Type 00 as 1938 ends in 00 in traditional Japanese years. The A6M was launched by Mitsubishi in 1937 in a contest to design the replacement for the Mitsubishi A5M. Mitsubishi, Kawanishi, and Nakajima started the competition with Kawanishi dropping out quickly. After the first flight of the A6M, Nakajimi dropped out when it was readily appearent that their aircraft was far inferior to the Mitsubishi. Nakajima did produce numerous aircraft for Japan during the war, the Ki-49 bomber, Ki-27 fighter, Ki-43 fighter, Ki-44/84 fighter, B5N torpedo bomber(dive), and B6N torpedo plane(level). Nakajima did navalize a version of the A6M for use on small islands that used a central float as a seaplane fighter, designated A6M2-N. Just like GM built Vought F4U Corsairs and Ford built Consolidated-Vultee B-24 Liberators, Nakajima did assist in building the legendary A6M as production far exceeded Mitsubishi's capacity. Nakajima also built Japan's first jet powered fighter, the Kikka, which bore a strong resemblance to the Messerschmitt Me-262. WWII aircraft is an obsession of mine.