US over to europan. - Page 6

svxistentialist · #76 08-18-2009, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomsSVX

Thats what I wanted to hear, thanks for clearing that up.

My bet is going to be he has a 2 wire VSS2 in the trans now because that is what the Legacy used, he is going to need an SVX style sensor

Tom

That seems to be the case Tom. Harvey told me he [now] has the SS2 in the transmission. What I am unclear on is what style SS2 was on the VTD transmission, Japanese style or RHD style.

Trevor · #77 08-18-2009, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b3lha

I'm now a little reluctant to post in this thread because I don't want to get caught up in this relentless bickering about solenoids and duty cycles. I am only posting this because I think it might be helpful and I want to get it in before the thread gets locked.

Here are a couple of diagrams that might be useful to Alex, or anyone else considering fitting a US transmission and TCU to a European or Aussie car.

This first diagram is the JDM/USA wiring. You can see speed sensor #2 mounted in the front diff has three wires. Pin 1 is signal, Pin 2 is ground, Pin 3 is power (not sure 12v or 5v ???). The Signal wire connects through to pin a11 of the TCU, it also feeds the ECU, speedometer and cruise control unit, but that is not shown on this diagram.

http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/b3lha/33820.jpg

The second diagram is the Euro wiring. You can see the speed sensor #2, mounted internally to the gearbox, has a ground and a signal wire. No Power wire. The signal wire connects through to pin a17 of the TCU. But look up a bit and you can see a wire coming out of pin c6 that feeds back into pin a11 and also runs to the ECU, speedometer and cruise control.

http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/oab_au/13771.jpg

I am 99% sure that the TCU has a circuit that converts the Euro-type signal to a US-type signal. The input is a17 and the output is c6.

I suggest that in order to fit a US TCU, you need to connect the VSS2 signal and ground wires to the sensor in the front diff, and add a third wire suppling power.

Then at the TCU end, you need to snip the wires going into a17 and out of c6 and join the loom side of them together. because you don't need to route the signal through the conversion circuit.

I can't say for sure if this is what Barry did to his car, but I reckon it's a good start.

The other change that will probably be necessary is to simulate an atmospheric pressure input to the US TCU. I would try Ron's (untested) 4-stage power mode mod for US TCUs. The voltage level on the atmospheric pressure pin determines whether the TCU uses Normal, LowPres1, LowPres2, or Power shift modes. See the gearshift maps thread for diagrams. I would use a potentiometer, start off at 0 volts and increase very slowly until the error code goes away. Then if you want a slightly sportier shift, increase a little more until it changes up a mode. I wouldn't go above 5 volts for fear of cooking the TCU. Once you discover where the voltage thresholds are, replace the potentiometer with a 4 position rotary switch and a resistor ladder.

I hope that helps.

Kia ora Phil,

As far as I am concerned there is no bickering. My objective has been to provide Alex with correct and exact answers to his questions. Granted, in the face of much concerted opposition. Arguing that which is correct, has been an absolute necessity. No other member has accepted the responsibility involved in providing definite answers, and incessant baseless queries have distorted fact.

I am unsure what JDM/USA indicates in regard to the first diagram . The manual I have, which I understood covers the JDM VTD cars is very different from the US manual.

Speed sensor 2 receives a supply at battery voltage (b+), via fuse no. 15, and not 5 volts.

It would appear to me that different inputs, for two sensors having different output characteristics, have been arranged, rather than a form of conversion.

The JAM VDT manual I have, shows the transmission mounted speed sensor 2 circuit, as between TCU a17 and ground, with TCU c6 providing an output for the speedo and cruise. TCU C11 is not shown

The US manual I have shows the external sensor 2 circuit, as between TCU a11 and ground, with a17 and c6 not shown. The speedo and cruise is connected between a11 and ground, which provides a direct output from the powered sensor.

The Euro diagram shows the transmission mounted speed sensor 2 circuit, as between TCU a17 and ground, with C6 and A11 bridged and supplying the speedo.

This would appear to indicate that TCU a17 is an input for an inductive internal sensor, while TCU a11 is an input for a powered external sensor.

N.B. C6 would seem to be associated with output for the speedo and is in use only with the internal inductive sensor.

Provided that Alex has a US system N/C C solenoid valve, a US TCU and an external powered speed sensor 2, as I see it, the sensor should be connected, --- (1) to US TCU a11, (3) to B+ via fuse 15. (2) to engine/transmission ground.

The speedo and cruise should be connected to US TCU a11, so as to receive a direct signal from the sensor. This, presuming that the Euro and VTD speedometer and cruise input impedance, is similar to that of the US components.

The atmospheric pressure sensor is connected between b10 and a20 ground. Voltage as such is not involved. The answer would be for someone to provide the resistance of the sensor, then use a potentiometer somewhat in excess of this resistance for experimental purposes as Phil has suggested. No figure is provided in the manual I have.

Cheers, Trevor.

Trevor · #78 08-18-2009, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svxistentialist

That seems to be the case Tom. Harvey told me he [now] has the SS2 in the transmission. What I am unclear on is what style SS2 was on the VTD transmission, Japanese style or RHD style.

It most certainly is the case if the current approach is to be pursued. Was nothing properly sorted in advance of the transmission being supplied?

Was nothing properly understood? What else can be wrong? What a B mess.

P.S. After sifting among the mess, am I to understand that an inductive sensor is now fitted, in lieu of Hall Effect sensor, i.e. both types of transducer, are expected to operate properly, from/within the same, existing, magnetic field? Is there in fact documentary evidence, that the three wire sensor is a Hall Effect device, and if not what evidence is available?

Alex-svx · #79 08-18-2009, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor

It most certainly is the case if the current approach is to be pursued. Was nothing properly sorted in advance of the transmission being supplied?

Was nothing properly understood? What else can be wrong? What a B mess.

P.S. After sifting among the mess, am I to understand that an inductive sensor is now fitted, in lieu of Hall Effect sensor, i.e. both types of transducer, are expected to operate properly, from/within the same, existing, magnetic field? Is there in fact documentary evidence, that the three wire sensor is a Hall Effect device, and if not what evidence is available?

What will that mean? I still must chage the TCU to get this work?

Trevor · #80 08-19-2009, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex-svx

What will that mean? I still must chage the TCU to get this work?

Alex, yes you will still have to change the TCU to a US type. We are trying to decide the wiring changes you will have to do.

Nga mihi nui, Trevor.

Trevor · #81 08-19-2009, 02:26 AM

Alex,

Have you seen this Post No. #35? Have you arranged to get a US TCU?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1986nate

I can supply him a US TCU. I am already going to be sending him turn signals that he needs and have a spare TCU that I can add to save him on shipping costs.

1986nate · #82 08-19-2009, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor

Alex,

Have you seen this Post No. #35? Have you arranged to get a US TCU?

I already shipped him the turn signals as he notified me that he had already lined up a purchase with someone else for the TCU before seeing my post

Alex-svx · #83 08-19-2009, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor

Alex,

Have you seen this Post No. #35? Have you arranged to get a US TCU?

Yes the TCU are on the Way.

I will get this in few days i hope.

Trevor · #84 08-20-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor

It most certainly is the case if the current approach is to be pursued. Was nothing properly sorted in advance of the transmission being supplied?

Was nothing properly understood? What else can be wrong? What a B mess.

P.S. After sifting among the mess, am I to understand that an inductive sensor is now fitted, in lieu of Hall Effect sensor, i.e. both types of transducer, are expected to operate properly, from/within the same, existing, magnetic field? Is there in fact documentary evidence, that the three wire sensor is a Hall Effect device, and if not what evidence is available?

Please Tom,

I am doing my best to help Alex out of his jamb, but I do not have access to any data or physical evidence relative to the US system.

What activates the external transducer/sensor in the US transmission, e.g. a gear tooth, magnetic component or what?

Thanks in anticipation, Trevor.

TomsSVX · #85 08-20-2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor

Please Tom,

I am doing my best to help Alex out of his jamb, but I do not have access to any data or physical evidence relative to the US system.

What activates the external transducer/sensor in the US transmission, e.g. a gear tooth, magnetic component or what?

Thanks in anticipation, Trevor.

It is a helical gear drive that is mounted on the side of the carrier in the front differential. There is a shaft that runs up to the speed sensor mounted on the diff.

Tom

Trevor · #86 08-20-2009, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomsSVX

It is a helical gear drive that is mounted on the side of the carrier in the front differential. There is a shaft that runs up to the speed sensor mounted on the diff.

Tom

Special thanks Tom,

Post #6 Harvey.
He has done the No.2 speed sensor swap Phil, so it is set up to run with the VTD TCU

Post #75 Tom
My bet is going to be he has a 2 wire VSS2 in the trans now because that is what the Legacy used, he is going to need an SVX style sensor

You were on the money Tom. As I see it still another error was made, and the speed sensor originally in the transmission supplied by Jason, should have been retained. Or was this a Legacy sensor and not suitable?

TomsSVX · #87 08-21-2009, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor

Special thanks Tom,

Post #6 Harvey.
He has done the No.2 speed sensor swap Phil, so it is set up to run with the VTD TCU

Post #75 Tom
My bet is going to be he has a 2 wire VSS2 in the trans now because that is what the Legacy used, he is going to need an SVX style sensor

You were on the money Tom. As I see it still another error was made, and the speed sensor originally in the transmission supplied by Jason, should have been retained. Or was this a Legacy sensor and not suitable?

It would not have worked anyway.

Tom

Trevor · #88 08-21-2009, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomsSVX

It would not have worked anyway.

Tom

--------- the transmission supplied by Jason, should have been retained. Or was this a Legacy sensor and not suitable?"

I am trying to ascertain whether the sensor Alex has in the transmission as supplied, must be replaced, and if so, exactly what he should fit. i.e. would the Legacy sensor, originally in the transmission, not be suitable; e.g. if Jason sent this free of charge, as he should do, would this match the US TCU now being installed?

TomsSVX · #89 08-21-2009, 04:33 AM

No, the two wire legacy sensor is not compatible to the 3 wire SVX TCU. I believe the 2 wire is a hall effect sensor while the 3 wire is an inductive found on newer models. They are pretty pricey new but easy to find used as just about all Subarus with an external speedo like it use our sensor post model year '99

Tom

Trevor · #90 08-21-2009, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomsSVX

No, the two wire legacy sensor is not compatible to the 3 wire SVX TCU. I believe the 2 wire is a hall effect sensor while the 3 wire is an inductive found on newer models. They are pretty pricey new but easy to find used as just about all Subarus with an external speedo like it use our sensor post model year '99

Tom

As i have no details on the US stuff I am much confused. The 2 wire sensor is unlikely to be a Hall effect sensor, as a voltage must be supplied and would indicate 3 wires. When a Legacy trans. is used as an SVX replacement, is the sensor changed for a 3 wire SVX TCU? I have never seen this mentioned and presumed that a change was not required.