Chevy "Forester" ---- SUbaru "Forester"

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by dcarrb

Consumer Reports recently rated Subaru as the most reliable make, based on surveys of people who actually bought and drove new cars.

dcb

here is a study that tells more than "initial quality" - used cars. see any correlation here?
only one GM in the "good" list - a Chevy/Geo Prizm, which i believe is actually a rebadged Toyota.
hmmmm..13 GM's show up in the crap list.

IbShadowsaysGMhasreallyimprovedlately - yeah, time will tell. until then, no thank you.

CR Good Bets

These are the best of both worlds: vehicles that have performed well in Consumer Reports road tests over the years and have proved to have several or more years of better-than-average overall reliability. They are listed alphabetically.


Acura Integra
Acura MDX
Acura RL
Acura RSX
Acura TL
Buick Regal
Chevrolet/Geo Prizm
Chrysler PT Cruiser
Ford Crown Victoria
Ford Escort, ZX2
Honda Accord
Honda Civic
Honda CR-V
Honda Odyssey
Honda Prelude
Honda S2000
Infiniti G20
Infiniti I30, I35
Infiniti Q45

Infiniti QX4
Lexus ES300, ES330
Lexus GS300/ GS400,
GS430
Lexus IS300
Lexus LS400, LS430
Lexus RX300, RX330
Lincoln Town Car
Mazda 626
Mazda Millenia
Mazda MX-5 Miata
Mazda Protegé
Mercury Grand Marquis
Mercury Tracer
Mitsubishi Galant
Nissan Altima
Nissan Maxima
Nissan Pathfinder

Subaru Forester
Subaru Impreza
Subaru Legacy
Subaru Outback
Toyota 4Runner
Toyota Avalon
Toyota Camry
Toyota Camry Solara
Toyota Celica
Toyota Corolla
Toyota Echo
Toyota Highlander
Toyota Land Cruiser
Toyota Prius
Toyota RAV4
Toyota Sequoia
Toyota Sienna
Toyota Tundra

CR Bad Bets

Be especially careful when considering these models. They have shown several years of much-worse-than-average overall reliability in their 1997 to 2004 models. They are listed alphabetically.
Audi A6
BMW 7 Series
Chevrolet Astro
Chevrolet Blazer
Chevrolet Express1500
Chevrolet S-10 (4WD)
Chevrolet TrailBlazer
Chrysler Town & Country (AWD)
Dodge Dakota (4WD)
Dodge Grand Caravan (AWD)
Ford Windstar
GMC Envoy
GMC Jimmy
GMC Safari
GMC Savana 1500
GMC Sonoma (4WD)
Jaguar S-Type
Jaguar X-Type
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Land Rover Discovery
Lincoln Navigator
Mercedes-Benz C-Class (V6)
Mercedes-Benz CLK
Mercedes-Benz M-Class
Mercedes-Benz S-Class
Oldsmobile Bravada
Oldsmobile Cutlass
Plymouth Neon
Pontiac Aztek
Saturn Vue
Volkswagen Golf
Volkswagen Jetta
Volkswagen
New Beetle
Volvo S80

[Royal Tiger]

I see both of my cars on on the good list. But how does the Plymouth Neon POS make the list, but not the Dodge version? Alot of Mercedes up there. Automobile had an article about Mercedes reliability slipping while trying to fix Chrysler. Which make me wonder why buy Chrysler in the first place?

Originally Posted by Shadow248

So other than the loss of chances for a low volume, niche type car (like the SVX), tell me what Subaru has to lose by partnering with GM?

I remember a recent Consumer Reports magazine that included all of the new models from each manufacturer. Every Subaru that was in that magazine was listed as a Consumer Reports Best Buy. If GM is so great, with all of their factories and all of the billions of dollars they have at their disposal, why can't they get all of their models to be Best Buys???? GM mass produces their cars as cheap as they can. They price them low to appeal to the masses. Good for them. But I'm not one of the masses. I've owned GM products. They just don't impress me. And living in the Northeast, some form of AWD or 4WD is almost a must have. Can't get that on a GM unless you buy a truck.




Dave

[Royal Tiger]

I would go more with Consumer Reports as they buy cars off dealer lots to do their evaluations. And with JD Power, people usually only send the cards back if they are dissatified with the car. As for living in the NE, the wife loves her Forester and I had a blast with the Pathfinder in the snow! I'd miss the snow if we moved south. I think we are retiring to Vermont anyway in 20 years.

[NapaBavarian]

Originally Posted by Shadow248

This is like watching the entire crew of the Titanic react to the news that their "invincible" ship was sinking. Finally getting your reality check?

You should be thanking god that GM is so eager to use your beloved Subaru's cars. Seeing as you all seem to agree that Subaru's new design direction sucks, combined with the fact that EVERY SINGLE GM MAKE now outperforms Subaru in quality and value (http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases...asp?ID=2005069), it seems to me that Subaru has everything to gain from a partnership with the world's largest automaker. No one knows better how to sell cars (whether you agree with their methods or not) than GM. This is the new automotive era...GM and Toyota now rule the automotive world. Combined they have almost 30% of the world market, plus 15 of the 18 highest quality cars you can buy.

So other than the loss of chances for a low volume, niche type car (like the SVX), tell me what Subaru has to lose by partnering with GM?

Hmmmmmmm, I thought you said one could find anything online and that id didn't mean cr@p?

[dcarrb]

Speaking of Titanic, what about this General Motors "Employee Discount to Everyone" business? They're selling their product at near-cost in a desperate move to reduce inventory and generate cashflow. (Read: Sending-up flares and lowering the boats.)

Yet another reason to wish Subaru had nothing to do with GM.

dcb

Originally Posted by dcarrb

Yet another reason to wish Subaru had nothing to do with GM.

dcb

Amen. Saab fans will wholehearted tell you that Saab quickly went down hill once the General took over. Our sister dealership sells Saabs and I've heard the stories about loyal Saab owners "abandoning ship" when GM came to town. They refused to buy anything associated with a company they had avoided for years. That's what I fear with Subaru.




Dave

[Royal Tiger]

There is always a silver lining. At least we aren't owned by ford! As much as I hate the french, Renault turned around Nissan without taking over. GM should take some notes. Nissan is now #2 in Japan behind juggernaut Toyota, passing Honda. Nissan's new cars look awesome and the new gen Skyline might be coming to America. They are trying to decide weather to badge it a Nissan or Infiniti here. It will be a Nissan everywhere else. The Sport concept shown at New York will be a Scion kicking monster if they do it right.

[dcarrb]

Originally Posted by red95svx

Amen. Saab fans will wholehearted tell you that Saab quickly went down hill once the General took over.

At least GM is peddling Subaru products as its own... and not the other way around.

These GM discounts have caused a buddy of mine, who just bought an Outback Sport, to take a long look at a new Saabaru.

dcb

Originally Posted by dcarrb

These GM discounts have caused a buddy of mine, who just bought an Outback Sport, to take a long look at a new Saabaru.

dcb

And so he should. Thanks to Fuji-Heavy the Saabaru is Saabs best model since the General's invasion




Dave

[pavanbabut]

Anyway i always dream of SUBARU to be alone in the market and improve its status in the luxury market segment even better than now.

But tieing up with some others look odd to me and also to some people who really "cares" for SUBARU and "hates" the others.

I also like VOLVO too in the begining untill I saw it once on FORD website, from then i was little bit back on it, since i wont like ford tht much.

The only other one I like is BENZ and i am scared when I am goin to hear these type of horrible facts on it tooo.

-Pavan.

[dcarrb]

This merger business (in any industry) is more a function of pleasing stockholders (and executive egos) than increasing market share. Stockholders just have to be savvy enough to cash-in their chips before everything implodes. The big business, grow-or-die business model is flawed. Just ask the major airlines.

Subaru should consider the example of Apple computer: Content to make billions of dollars while owning only a tiny fraction of the personal-computer marketplace. I doubt whether the folks who've made fortunes off Apple, or the millions who are happily using Macs and iPods, could care less whether or not Microsoft rules the world.

dcb

[Landshark]

in addition to boxer engines and AWD in performance vehicles, i hope Subaru takes from Porsche the ability to stay independant. they have their collaborations with VW, Audi, and Subaru (Blitzen), but remain an independant car maker and haven't been gobbled up by the big corps just to make a buck.

[pavanbabut]

Originally Posted by dcarrb

This merger business (in any industry) is more a function of pleasing stockholders (and executive egos) than increasing market share. Stockholders just have to be savvy enough to cash-in their chips before everything implodes. The big business, grow-or-die business model is flawed. Just ask the major airlines.

Subaru should consider the example of Apple computer: Content to make billions of dollars while owning only a tiny fraction of the personal-computer marketplace. I doubt whether the folks who've made fortunes off Apple, or the millions who are happily using Macs and iPods, could care less whether or not Microsoft rules the world.

dcb

yep!.... Apple is very good example. I personally like Apple PCs for their clarity in graphics and colors and cool displays rather than tht of Microsoft.

-Pavan.

[pavanbabut]

Originally Posted by Landshark

in addition to boxer engines and AWD in performance vehicles, i hope Subaru takes from Porsche the ability to stay independant. they have their collaborations with VW, Audi, and Subaru (Blitzen), but remain an independant car maker and haven't been gobbled up by the big corps just to make a buck.

Exactly the same wht i meant to say, but not sure of Porsche by tht time.

-Pavan.