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  #16  
Old 02-03-2019, 10:17 PM
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Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oab_au View Post
“When in the "ON" position, everything on the dash lights up, I can hear the fuel pump and the car draws about 10A. It goes up to about 20A when I try to start the car. I never noticed this before but the climate control, clock and radio turn off when the ignition switch is turned to "start". I assume that is normal.”

Yes that is normal.
As the car has been standing long enough for the shifter to stick, it can also have the starter gear stick to the starter scroll, that the solenoid should push the gear into mesh with the ring gear.
As the bottom of the bell housing is open, moisture condenses up in the top of it, where the starter gear is, so the solenoid just clicks.
I have had this happen to my car here in the tropics.
I agree that in the event of the abnormal conditions suggested, if and only if, the solenoid does nor move far enough for its contacts to close as is normal, an abnormal situation whereby an increase of only 10 amps could possibly abnormally occur.

However in that instance the confirmed quite small abnormal increase in current, provided that everything else is normal, would not cause the abnormal symptom reported, whereby the climate control, clock and radio abnormally turn off. Therefore the suggested abnormal scenario can not apply.

In accordance with my previous post the symptoms described by Tony are certainly not normal and indicate a voltage drop within the car circuitry or alternatively that the battery is unable to supply the required current.
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  #17  
Old 02-03-2019, 10:49 PM
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Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.

When I say it won't start I mean it does absolutely nothing when I turn the key to start. No turning of the starter, no clicking noise...nothing but silence. That it why I started to suspect the starter interrupt relay. I know I pulled out the wrong relay as it only had three contacts. My car is OBD2 and I think the starter interrupt relay is located way up near where the throttle cable goes into the firewall. It is really hard to see and grab and appears to he held in with a barb-style plastic fastener. A real PITA!

When the damn snow melts and my more flexible sons are home, I will try to trace voltages. My gut tells me to suspect the security module. That has acted up now and then and it controls the starter interrupt relay. When I say it acts up, it sometimes will beep the horn as I am driving down the road for no reason. If I pull over and restart the car, it stops beeping. So it is clearly not well.

Is that starter interrupt relay really normally closed? I ask because my wiring diagram shows it as open, implying normally open. Either way, I am of the mindset to remove it and short the appropriate pins. I don't think anyone will be stealing this car.

On the security module, if I replace that, can I reprogram my key fobs to work with it or do I need the key fobs that were programmed for it?
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  #18  
Old 02-04-2019, 02:06 AM
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Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskymaniac View Post
When I say it won't start I mean it does absolutely nothing when I turn the key to start. No turning of the starter, no clicking noise...nothing but silence. That it why I started to suspect the starter interrupt relay. I know I pulled out the wrong relay as it only had three contacts. My car is OBD2 and I think the starter interrupt relay is located way up near where the throttle cable goes into the firewall. It is really hard to see and grab and appears to he held in with a barb-style plastic fastener. A real PITA!

When the damn snow melts and my more flexible sons are home, I will try to trace voltages. My gut tells me to suspect the security module. That has acted up now and then and it controls the starter interrupt relay. When I say it acts up, it sometimes will beep the horn as I am driving down the road for no reason. If I pull over and restart the car, it stops beeping. So it is clearly not well

Is that starter interrupt relay really normally closed? I ask because my wiring diagram shows it as open, implying normally open. Either way, I am of the mindset to remove it and short the appropriate pins. I don't think anyone will be stealing this car.

On the security module, if I replace that, can I reprogram my key fobs to work with it or do I need the key fobs that were programmed for it?
Thanks Tony,

The wiring diagrams (You show your knowledge by not referring to them as schematics) seldom show relay contacts correctly and you are on top of it because many people do not even know what the word "normal" means in respect of an electrical component much less a discussion.

As I understand it when an SVX was supplied without a security system, as a matter of course in order to enable production of a universal wiring loom, a dummy shorting loop and plug was inserted in place of the interrupt relay. My Japanese manufactured SVX had such a plug. Your idea is therefore well founded and you should use this approach before giving any thought towards the security system.

In respect of the security system you have now thrown another potential spanner in the works and also again confirmed the bogie of an intermittent fault. Unfortunately you are drifting even further up a creek and it is becoming increasingly more difficult to hand you a paddle. LOL

Consider each possible cause individually and eliminate each in turn. A scatter gun will get you no where. Stick with a target rifle and first off make absolutely sure that the battery supply is beyond doubt.

Rather than check for voltage at individual points it can often be best to check for voltage drop between points within a supply line. I am sure that you will appreciate how each method has a place in trouble shooting.

The Lord of logic is your friend and he will bring you the best of luck.

Sincerely, Trevor.
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  #19  
Old 02-04-2019, 03:28 AM
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Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.

Tony you could check to see if the starter motor actually works, by leaving the key turned off, then use a jumper wire to put + power to the starter solenoid spade terminal, if the starter is OK it will turn, that would eliminate one thing.
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  #20  
Old 02-04-2019, 10:18 AM
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Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskymaniac View Post
On the security module, if I replace that, can I reprogram my key fobs to work with it or do I need the key fobs that were programmed for it?
You can use your existing key fobs with the new security module. Once you have the module installed, you follow the instructions to enter it into programming mode. That sets it up to receive the new codes from YOUR key fobs ( which overwrite the ones stored in it.

The same way the new remotes from keylessride are used when programming them into your security system.
.
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R.I.P. 2010 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5 CVT...338,000 miles. Totaled by a COW March 4, 2016
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  #21  
Old 02-04-2019, 11:01 AM
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Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svxcess View Post
.


You can use your existing key fobs with the new security module. Once you have the module installed, you follow the instructions to enter it into programming mode. That sets it up to receive the new codes from YOUR key fobs ( which overwrite the ones stored in it.

The same way the new remotes from keylessride are used when programming them into your security system.
.
Any idea if the OBD2 security modules are the same as OBD1?
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1996 Subaru SVX LSi, 149,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 0W40 and 5W30 High Mileage Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, StopTech Cross Drilled Front and Rear Rotors, Akebono ProACT Brake Pads
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  #22  
Old 02-04-2019, 01:02 PM
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Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskymaniac View Post
Any idea if the OBD2 security modules are the same as OBD1?
They are identical modules, just in different location in later years. The OBD parimeters for engine management should not make a difference.

The usual problem is that the security system internal relay has failed (causing the red light to stay on) Replacing the relay is possible, part can be found an electronics store, maybe online. Must be soldered out and in. Takes a bit of electronics knowledge and skills to accomplish this.

Part number is 202-2514



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File Type: jpg alarm module.jpg (51.9 KB, 47 views)
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1996 Polo Green LSi #216...138,100 miles...

JFICX8659TH100216JF1CX8659TH100216........Mfg. Date: 11/1995......... Service Date: January 2, 1997

"The Pristine Green Polo Machine"

First Polo Green on the Network
First Clear front turn signals, JDM Alcyone hood emblem, rear panel, and BOXER engine cover on the Network (US) (2000)
First 5000K HID factory fog lights (2007)
First SVX JDM BBS wheels on a USDM SVX (2013)

HID lighting (5000K) for headlight and H3 fog lights, PIAA SuperExtreme 120W high beams, rebuilt EG33 longblock, Cometic head gaskets, Phase II flexplate, 160A high-output alternator in aluminum-ceramic coated case, new design alternator wiring upgrade v.4, rare factory headlight protectors, refinished JDM BBS mesh aluminum wheels and custom, polished billet aluminum new hex center caps, LED grille mod, Raceconcepts dimpled/slotted rotors, Akebono ceramic pads, Goodridge S/S braided brake lines, Smallcar Stage 1 shift kit, ThermalTech aluminum/ceramic-coated valve covers, Energy Suspension urethane front & rear swaybar bushings, Bontrager22 rear swaybar with QS Components Chromoly Teflon/Kevlar endlinks, "$15.00/5 minute" suspension mod. Hella Supertone horns, Custom stainless steel exhaust system with 2" headpipes, Magnaflow cats, AeroTurbine AR25 resonator /AWD "Bullet" muffler.


R.I.P. 2010 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5 CVT...338,000 miles. Totaled by a COW March 4, 2016
2014 Hyundai Elantra Limited ...76,000 miles. Actually quieter and smoother than the SVX


5th Registered Network member —2/21/2001

My NEW locker..I...My Email..I..Wikipedia/SVX .

.

Last edited by svxcess; 02-06-2019 at 07:34 AM.
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  #23  
Old 02-04-2019, 06:25 PM
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Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svxcess View Post
.


They are identical modules, just in different location in later years. The OBD parimeters for engine management should not make a difference.

The usual problem is that the security system internal relay has failed (causing the red light to stay on) Replacing the relay is possible, part can be found an electronics store, maybe online. Must be soldered out and in. Takes a bit of electronics knowledge and skills to accomplish this.


Part number is 202-2514



.
Is there a schematic for this thing? I would like to see if the relay is also why my car beeps randomly. I bet it is because it does seem to happen in high humidity conditions.

Still, I am changing my gut feeling on the no start problem. I noticed that my dash is saying that I am in reverse and, even though there is some play in the selector, it won't change from reverse as I move it back and forth. I started to remove the center console in hopes that I can get penetrating lubricant into the cable. I just need to get the damn thing in neutral so I can tow it to a shop where they can fix everything on a nice lift.
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1996 Subaru SVX LSi, 149,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 0W40 and 5W30 High Mileage Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, StopTech Cross Drilled Front and Rear Rotors, Akebono ProACT Brake Pads
2005 Acura RL, 128,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Mobil 1 0W40 and 0W20 High Mileage Oil Blend
2009 Toyota Venza, 78,XXX, Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage Oil

Last edited by svxcess; 02-06-2019 at 07:35 AM.
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  #24  
Old 02-04-2019, 10:09 PM
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Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.

Tony the shift cable connects to the manual lever on the side of the box, a pin in the centre of the manual lever locates into the inhibitor switch to rotate it, so if the shift lever is actually moving the manual lever, the Inhibitor switch is not rotating, staying in reverse the starter won’t work .
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  #25  
Old 02-04-2019, 11:51 PM
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Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.

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Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
You should follow through suspecting the inhibiter switch.

Presuming that the battery is in all respects 100%. ----

You advise "It started for me once today without an issue."

You have an intermittent fault and must take this into account and search accordingly. Push and pull things as you check and test.

You advise that it goes up to only 20 amps when you apply voltage to the starter. This indicates that :-

* There is a voltage drop between the starter and the battery i.e. resistance in the wiring and connections. Or :-

The starter or the starter solenoid is faulty is not applying a normal load against the battery.

The inhibiter switch is disrupting full voltage to the solenoid.

You advise that "I never noticed this before but the climate control, clock and radio turn off when the ignition switch is turned to "start"."

This indicates that there is voltage drop affecting the overall electrical network.

* Check for voltage drop across the starter supply circuit by measuring for voltage between the battery positive terminal and the main starter terminal while cranking the car. If there is anything close to say a one volt drop you have identified that your problem involves the main battery supply circuit.
Kia ora Tony,

It would appear that all along the car has been telling you that it is in reverse bur unfortunately the message has become confused. Probably the indicator light was affected along with the climate control etc.

It has been emphasised that you should adhere to a logical sequence of fault finding but unfortunately the weather has been solidly against you and it is significant that only now have you been able to properly start the sequence at square one. Nice and warm down here so wishing you the luck need.. LOL
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Last edited by Trevor; 02-05-2019 at 03:00 AM. Reason: Clarity
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  #26  
Old 02-05-2019, 02:49 AM
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Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.

You should be able to see the lever on the side of the box from under the hood, look down the passengers side of the engine at the side of the box, if you have somebody else move the shift lever in the car, you should see if the gear lever moves too.
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  #27  
Old 02-05-2019, 11:48 AM
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Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.

Tell me if I am getting this right.

1. The inhibitor switch is located on the side of the transmission and not near the gear selector in the car.
2. The cable connects the gear selector to a lever on the side of the tranny and this lever both controls the tranny and the inhibitor switch.

Any suggestions on lubricating the cable from inside the car? I have the center console off and the gear indicator unscrewed.

What is the purpose of the limit switch on the gear selector? It looks like it is only depressed when the lever is in park.
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  #28  
Old 02-05-2019, 12:40 PM
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Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskymaniac View Post
Tell me if I am getting this right.

1. The inhibitor switch is located on the side of the transmission and not near the gear selector in the car.
2. The cable connects the gear selector to a lever on the side of the tranny and this lever both controls the tranny and the inhibitor switch.

Any suggestions on lubricating the cable from inside the car? I have the center console off and the gear indicator unscrewed.

What is the purpose of the limit switch on the gear selector? It looks like it is only depressed when the lever is in park.
Yes you are getting this right.

However there is no limit switch as such. A simple mechanical trigger prevents the inadvertent movement of the lever from the park position and therefore works as a safety catch and it should be operating freely.
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  #29  
Old 02-05-2019, 04:38 PM
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Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskymaniac View Post
Tell me if I am getting this right.

1. The inhibitor switch is located on the side of the transmission and not near the gear selector in the car.
2. The cable connects the gear selector to a lever on the side of the tranny and this lever both controls the tranny and the inhibitor switch.

Any suggestions on lubricating the cable from inside the car? I have the center console off and the gear indicator unscrewed.

What is the purpose of the limit switch on the gear selector? It looks like it is only depressed when the lever is in park.
The Inhibitor switch mounts over the lever on the side of the transmission, so the cable moves both together, that switch works the gear position lights on the dash directly, and signals the transmission, and starter circuits.

The cable has to be lubed from under the car, sorry.
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  #30  
Old 02-05-2019, 05:05 PM
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Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.

"The cable has to be lubed from under the car, sorry."

Obviously lubricant will not readily run uphill.

CRC or an equivalent in a spray can is your friend and can be applied liberally from inside the car while sheltered from the weather and without any fear of damage. Hose the damned thing and at the very least, it will be sorry. LOL
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Last edited by Trevor; 02-05-2019 at 05:09 PM.
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