SVX Network Forums Live Chat! SVX or Subaru Links Old Lockers Photo Post How-To Documents Message Archive SVX Shop Search |
IRC users: |
#31
|
||||
|
||||
Re: What is worse? Why?
I'm gonna throw up the old white flag and say, agree to disagree on this thread. This is one of those topics that plain and simple, isn't easy for people to agree upon.
Just to re-iterate my statements, I in no way am pointing fingers, never have I or will I. I know life happens. I realize that I'm not a parent and so the views are different, but I can still think about a situation logically and use some foresight to make a good/valid point. Again, and I can't stress this enough, if in any way my statements were offensive to anyone, I apologize.
__________________
Jordan 1992 SVX LS-L 126,xxx Sold 1990 Non-Turbo 300zx 127,xxx 1991 Non-Turbo MR2 214,xxx, replaced engine at 190,xxx Watch your thoughts, for they become words. Watch your words, for they become actions. Watch your actions, for they become habits. Watch your habits, for they become character. Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny... |
#32
|
||||
|
||||
Re: What is worse? Why?
Nothing.
Childbirth is natural and very necessary for the survival of the human race. 18-21 is the age around which we are biologically best suited for having healthy babies. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
When I got married the second time {for reasons I won't go into here} my wife and I were nearly 40 and we wanted children. My children are now all well on the way to healthy and happy and financially secure adult lives. No drugs, no problems, no police, just happy young adults who shoulder responsibility for themselves and are good achievers. But that's just me and my family. I'm sure you have just insulted hundreds of thousands of American families as well with your well thought out philosophy on life. Based on your experience. So far. Joe
__________________
Black Betty [Bam a Lam!] '93 UK spec, still languishing Betty Jersey Girl Silver '92 UK [Channel Isles] 40K Jersey Girl @ Mersea Candy Purple Honda Blackbird Plum Dangerous White X2 RVR Mitsubishi 1800GDI. Vantastic 40,000 miles Jersey Girl |
#33
|
||||
|
||||
Re: What is worse? Why?
Quote:
Gene
__________________
Gene and Ben 1992 SVX LS AWD 110K - Liquid Silver 1994 SVX LSi AWD 128K - White Pearl (daily driver) 1994 SVX LSi AWD 95K - Emerald Pearl (sold) 1992 SVX LS-L AWD 115K - Dark Teal 4.44 swap (sold) |
#34
|
||||
|
||||
When I was a preteen I thought the same thing, I didn't want to be a 40-50 year old parent because I thought I might be too tired or broken to have fun with teenage kids.
__________________
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." '92 Dark Teal SVX LS-L, >146,000m 3 pedals, 5 speeds., restoration underway. 2012 Honda Insight, slow but cute. |
#35
|
||||
|
||||
Re: What is worse? Why?
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
As you can see, I'm not alone. In this case, my decision led me to a lower number and there is no harm in that. |
#36
|
||||
|
||||
Re: What is worse? Why?
Most of the attitude shown here is yours.
Neatly side-stepping the question. You do this well. Do you have politics in your list of future ambitions, by any chance? Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Joe
__________________
Black Betty [Bam a Lam!] '93 UK spec, still languishing Betty Jersey Girl Silver '92 UK [Channel Isles] 40K Jersey Girl @ Mersea Candy Purple Honda Blackbird Plum Dangerous White X2 RVR Mitsubishi 1800GDI. Vantastic 40,000 miles Jersey Girl |
#37
|
||||
|
||||
Re: What is worse? Why?
To only stress my point one last time...because this thread is really illogical at this point. How do you prevent yourself from having a child before you're ready? Which should be the point, not why is it that society looks down on young people with children.(when I say young people I'm thinking 18-35) Which to also point out, no one will know the difference if everything is running smoothly. It's once the child isn't receiving proper care, the care provider is falling short of giving the child it's needed attention and focus, that people say anything.(in most cases.)
This has no indication of age....it's simple math...you could be 16 or 60...if your not ready just don't engage in the risk. I seriously don't understand how this point isn't obvious.
__________________
Jordan 1992 SVX LS-L 126,xxx Sold 1990 Non-Turbo 300zx 127,xxx 1991 Non-Turbo MR2 214,xxx, replaced engine at 190,xxx Watch your thoughts, for they become words. Watch your words, for they become actions. Watch your actions, for they become habits. Watch your habits, for they become character. Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny... |
#38
|
||||
|
||||
Re: What is worse? Why?
The only attitude I have is a direct result of the attitude I am referring to, that being what society shows to young parents or soon to be parents. I didn't accuse anyone here specifically of an attitude.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I made a statement that you found distasteful and would expect that in return. You were mocking me, which is not the same. |
#39
|
||||
|
||||
I think for any real progress to be made here we should break down "society" into the factions that hold the beliefs in question.
Christianity for example (easy target), preaches abstinence until marriage, and generally frowns upon younger mothers.
__________________
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." '92 Dark Teal SVX LS-L, >146,000m 3 pedals, 5 speeds., restoration underway. 2012 Honda Insight, slow but cute. |
#40
|
||||
|
||||
Re: What is worse? Why?
Quote:
Quote:
Ok, so what about the ones that got condoms from school or planned parenthood and they we're the 1%? What about the ones that we're on birth control and antibiotics (proven distort birth control) at the same time and 'whoops', got pregnant? And especially, what about the ones that whole heartedly feel they are ready and still take abuse from older people who think they should have known better before they've even been given the chance to say it out loud? |
#41
|
||||
|
||||
Time to come clean.....
Ok, so where is this all coming from? What is the great "sympathy" towards teen-preggo's? here it is....
I started out as one of the statistically worst potential parents alive. No joke. In two short years I attended 7 high schools and thanks to crossing state lines before taking semester finals, I became a Junior with .25 credits and was told I still have 4 full years ahead of me. Did I do it? No, Do I regret it? No. I dropped out the day I was old enough and started working full time. At the time, I had entirely given up on the thought of finding 'the one', or going to college. At that point, every marriage in my family besides one had split up, and every man in my immediate family was a truck driver with at least 2 children they got to see once or twice a month. My mother (also a high school drop out and teen mom), was an area supervisor for a restaurant and holding her own financially, I thought that would be better than driving a rig my whole life. I ended up becoming a general manager.... yadda yadda, then a pizza delivery driver. Then one day, I met my wife. I knew it instantly, walked right into her kitchen. I'm not condoning the notion of love at first sight, or saying that it was the smartest move.... simply put, I walked into her kitchen and said "I want that, and I'm going to keep it". Well it didn't take long, and we were dating.... oops, by the way she just turned 17 (I had just turned 20). I personally do not at all like fast women as I mentioned once before..... we waited over a month and when we did do something we did actually have the what if conversation. After only a couple of times being together ... we were pregnant. There it is folks, the teen mom is my wife...... but wait, theres more. She had friends, and well it's a high school where pretty much everyone knows everyone. So guess what, she wasn't the only one to get pregnant, soon several more followed. Her best friends ditched her because she didn't want to drink or party, and EVERYONE scoffed at her. Where is the attitude I have a problem with? Well lets see, her guidance counselor, friends, teachers, her pastor and even her mother were all on her case. I'm not talking just 'you need to figure out what your going to do', that would have been nice and I honestly wouldn't have much problem with it.... no, they were straight up jumping down their throats and tearing out their hearts, bringing up every dream the poor girls have ever had and throwing it in their faces like it was jotted down on scratch paper, as if they had violated a contract signed in blood with the devil himself.ALL of the people who are supposed to be supportive, took a crap on her as if she was a dirty ***** when I was the only guy she'd been with. A couple of the friends that left her, are now calling her for advice on what to do about their new baby just a year or three later. Wondering why no one calls them anymore and why everyone feels the need to criticize them. They didn't get it either. They fully realized they made put themselves in a hard place, every last one of them, and they did it before they announced the news. Where does my experience come from? Simple, I was the one person in several of their lives who actually listened instead. The one who acted like I cared about what they wanted and how they felt. And what to all women do when they are shown that respect? They open up and tell you everything. For at least 4 teen moms, I have been there the whole time, unlike anyone else besides their baby daddy, and oh, I helped them figure out what was going on in their heads too. There are a couple more cases where 'daddy' is the one I knew, not even the mom at all, but I know them now. To be honest, some days I feel like I have 9 brothers, 11 wives and about 22 children. And at no point during any of this have I been able to derive a good reason to scold a single one of them, myself included. I will **not** deny some exist, there is one in particular that I was never introduced to (my mothers co-workers daughter), who consistently pawns of her kid and goes out to party, and tries her heart out to get every piece of 'her life' for herself. As for the rest, they all agree that without a child you don't have a life. A bit hasty and inexperienced perhaps, but that is how they feel and you couldn't beat it out of them with a billy club. So, was it hard? Of course it was.... lets see, when I got the news that my woman was preggo, I realized right away that a pizza joint wasn't going to cut it. It was a matter of days before I was at the tech paying (in advance) for my GED. I even argued with them about the schedule. They tried to convince me that I could take 1 of 5 tests per week and all I could say was "why, there are 5 days in a week, I want one a day all next week".... it took making a bit of a scene, but I ended up taking all 5 test in two days.... and in less than two full weeks I received my GED in the mail and was interviewing for schools. Everything worked out perfectly..... wife's 18th birthday.... three and a half weeks later, got married, another three weeks, our son was born. Oh, and still to this day I would like to b!t** slap every person who says we got married because she was pregnant. We already planned on it, perhaps premature in our decision, BEFORE she got pregnant. Yes, that is correct, we planned on marriage after knowing each other a month, it happens, deal with it. Being pregnant merely helped set the date because getting your paternal rights in this state out of wedlock is a crock. The mom can't even sign off on it for you. If on the other hand, you are married, then you can't get out of it even if it is NOT your child, figure that one out? Thanks to my sudden motivation in life, a few short months later I started college. I kept my job at the pizza shack because tips are awesome and dammit I'm good at it. A month after I started school, the chair of my program hired me as a Teaching Assistant. SO, and a full time half hours school schedule (4 days a week) I worked at the school in the morning, was a student in the early afternoon, and delivered hot steamy pizza two nights (5-close, friday and saturday) every week, and still had the time left over to see my son a good portion every day. Doing this brought me from a 99.99% statistical chance of being a deadbeat dad, to making more money than anyone in either side of either of my families and granted me the right to tell the guidance counselors, pastors and my mother-in-law that now that I have broken my a$$ and done what I needed to do, they can kiss it and they were wrong. I'm rather proud of what I have accomplished and have every right to be. I was a punk-drop out-delivery boy with no chance of greatness, who got his act together faster than Emeril can say BAM. Now, we've had our second child and I still have the money left over, after all of the diapers, formula, toys and clothes (don't forget maternity clothes) to be working of my SVX (just finished fixing up a 69 Chevelle too), and be going on vacation in little over a month. So, where is my experience? Watching it happen more times that the majority of the people going on and on about how something has to be done about it. And oh, yeah DOING IT with worse conditions than many. And my questions remain, how do they deserve this? I'm not talking about the responsibility of being a parent, that they deserve fully. But why, as a society, do people feel it is necessary to treat these young women in such a way that they cry themselves to sleep most nights? Don't say it doesn't happen, or that it was a rare case, because it isn't. Even in a place that is supposed to be civil, people have some need to act superior, as if compared to something that needs to be flushed down the toilet. Last edited by iizbeastie; 09-29-2008 at 09:43 PM. |
#42
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I'm more discretionary these days, but you are absolutely right. I have discussed this with many people, albeit tersely, and most come to the same conclusion of "Omg, look at that, such a shame."
__________________
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." '92 Dark Teal SVX LS-L, >146,000m 3 pedals, 5 speeds., restoration underway. 2012 Honda Insight, slow but cute. |
#43
|
||||
|
||||
Re: Time to come clean.....
Quote:
In all honesty I can't defend the attitudes you say were shown to these young teenage mothers, when they needed support rather than approbation. You would need to take into account though, that statistics will show that teenage mothers are often not financially equipped nor mature enough to properly rear a child, and that teenage marriages have a high rate of attrition. Viewed in that light the councilors and teachers and so on that you mention may feel they would not like to show an encouraging attitude[to teenage pregnancy] to the classes at large. Teenagers have been known to mistake support for their problems as endorsement of their behaviour. There is a subtle difference. As regards the matter of your experience, I would make the point that it is limited because of your age. You have loads of experience of teenage pregnancy and a successful marriage to be proud of. You have no experience of raising children through teenage years, just yet. If you thought I was mocking you, that was not my intention and I apologise. I was trying to challenge you on the lack of breadth to your experience, so that you might reserve judgement on things such as older parenthood till you walked a mile in those shoes. And in that vein I will offer a scenario to see if it may offer you a different perspective on older parents. Say the unthinkable happens and you lose the woman you love to cancer or something in your mid thirties. A few years later you fall in love again with a wonderful woman, you get married and she wants children of her own. Do you think your prejudice against older 40+ parenting will still hold out in this scenario? I would like to think you are mature enough to see that it would not. Children at any age are a blessing. If teenagers can reset their priorities for babies, so can older adults. And thank you for "coming clean" with your story. It is a pleasure to see young people Doing It Right and beating all the odds. Fair play to you both. Joe
__________________
Black Betty [Bam a Lam!] '93 UK spec, still languishing Betty Jersey Girl Silver '92 UK [Channel Isles] 40K Jersey Girl @ Mersea Candy Purple Honda Blackbird Plum Dangerous White X2 RVR Mitsubishi 1800GDI. Vantastic 40,000 miles Jersey Girl |
#44
|
||||
|
||||
Re: What is worse? Why?
I matured at an early age. First job at the family restaurant at 12, worked pretty much full time through the summers, and close to full time during the school year. I was a Co-Op student through high school, where I attended school 2 days a week and worked 3, through a work release program. I had what I thought was a decent job, at a major pharmaceutical company. I made what I thought was decent money, around 20k/yr, which at that point was getting me by rather well.
Then I met a girl. We later found out that she was pregnant. I was not the father, it was from before I was around. Still, I stayed. We married, and I joined the service, as I had been planning to do before we got together, as the market was questionable, and I could use the money for college. Well, she got pregnant again, and our second daughter was born. What I didn't realize, was while I was a bit more mature than most my age, she was not. I worked 12-16hr days and she stayed home with the kids. She did not cook, clean, do any laundry, or pretty much anything other than play video games and socialize with the neighbors. I'd get home after my day, and cook, clean, do laundry, etc. Needless to say, this got old. We were not that well off financially, for 2 kids. 2 adults, sure, no problem. Kids, though, are pretty pricey, and any idiot who says otherwise is in for a rude awakening. Sure, your job at walmart with 3 years there may be paying more than minimum wage, but what about doctors visits? Dental visits? Those kids had better be insured. If you think it's unnecessary, you're armed with your children's Tylenol and children's cough syrup, you don't deserve to be a parent, and I feel sorry for your kids. Age 18-25 are the best years of your life, when you have some extra money, making decent wages, and can go out and have fun and party. I didn't do that, I raised 2 kids. I'm 25 now, I'm divorced, and I have custody of my 2 kids, one in kindergarten and one in pre-school. I wake every morning, take them to the daycare where they catch the bus later on, and go to work. On my way home, I pick them up, go home, make dinner, ask about their day, do homework, bathe them, and put them to bed. Then, I have an hour or so to myself before I go to bed to repeat the process. I have given up on my life, and am living for their lives, to make them better. Sometimes we go to the park, sometimes we go out to eat, or do different things together. In short, they come first. Kids 18-25 are typically not willing to ignore their own social lives and take on the responsibilities of kids. I make a fair salary, higher than most my age, and certainly higher than pretty much all at 18. I have full benefits package, paid vacation, flex time, just about anything you can ask for as far as employment goes. My health care and dental is to ensure my kids are properly cared for if they are ill, my vacation time is for when my kids are sick and can't go for daycare, my flex time allows me to take my kids to appointments during the day without having to use a vacation day, floating holiday, paid time off, or sick day. I have things pretty well set. Am I qualified to be a parent? No. More money would mean a better place to live, more vacation time would mean being able to take my kids on the vacations they deserve, better benefits would save money to provide both of those things. When would I have those things? About by the time I'm 30. At that point I'd be at a good salary that single income could provide all I want for my kids, instead of now making sure they get everything they need, and barely half of what I want for them. The phrase "But I don't want to spoil my kid." is a cop-out. Every parent wants to spoil their kids, give them the best, that which they had, plus some extra on top. Saying otherwise is just something to make you feel better about that which you fail at providing. "Oh my parents will help." Another bull**** line. They did their time. That's just a way of trying to take that which you are supposed to be responsible for, and put it on someone else. Own up to your actions, make sure you can provide for your kids before you have them, and if you do have them early, because it does happen, do your best to give them the best life you can. You should no longer be your top priority, your kids are.
__________________
*No SVX at the moment...* 1987 Winnebago Elandan 35' 2001 Yamaha Roadstar 1600 2004 Ford Excursion Eddie Bauer, 6.0litre Power Stroke Diesel - Daily Driver. Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, scotch in one hand, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming HOOOOYA !!!!! |
#45
|
||||
|
||||
Re: What is worse? Why?
That's one heck of a commitment for a single [now] father. I hope the financial situation picks up soon and you have the freedom you need, for your children and for a social life for yourself.
You sure deserve it. It sounds like your two daughters got a good deal in life having a father like you. Respect due. Joe
__________________
Black Betty [Bam a Lam!] '93 UK spec, still languishing Betty Jersey Girl Silver '92 UK [Channel Isles] 40K Jersey Girl @ Mersea Candy Purple Honda Blackbird Plum Dangerous White X2 RVR Mitsubishi 1800GDI. Vantastic 40,000 miles Jersey Girl |
|
|