The Subaru SVX World Network   SVX Network Forums
Live Chat!
SVX or Subaru Links
Old Lockers
Photo Post
How-To Documents
Message Archive
SVX Shop Search
IRC users:

Go Back   The Subaru SVX World Network > SVX Main Forums > Technical Q & A

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-25-2001, 06:22 AM
Joe 90's Avatar
Joe 90 Joe 90 is offline
Canadian eh!
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 101
Angry Rear wheels slow to engage, need help!

Last spring, I ended a thread on this subject hoping that the tranny rebuild I was getting would cure the problem, but it didn't!!!

The story in short.....

When I floor it, the front wheels spin quite a bit before the rear wheels engage (with a big jerk).

The plan.....

So I have a new tranny in, (NIL FIX) and yesterday I changed the VSS that is mounted on the transfer case housing..... Guess what? STILL NIL FIX! The front wheels still spin when I floor it!

The tranny tech told me that "everything looks normal" in the tranfer case section" when he rebuilt it....

I need suggestions! Anybody had this problem before? How was it fixed?.... Next thing to change would be the duty solenoid or the TCU..?? (about the TCU, the diagnostic mode says "No Problem"!!!!)

Help me!!!!!

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-25-2001, 09:12 AM
vkykam's Avatar
vkykam vkykam is offline
The Road Less Traveled
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 824
Re: Rear wheels slow to engage, need help!

I gotta ask...

What did it cost you to rebuild the tranny in Montreal in our ain't-worth-a-damn Canadian dollars?

I have to start saving up... Seems it's not a matter of if, but when...

VK

Quote:
Originally posted by Joe 90

The tranny tech told me that "everything looks normal" in the tranfer case section" when he rebuilt it....
Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-25-2001, 10:14 AM
Joe 90's Avatar
Joe 90 Joe 90 is offline
Canadian eh!
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 101
The complete rebuild cost me about $2100 CDN ($1300 for our American friends).... Not bad at all considering what some other people paid!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-25-2001, 10:24 AM
Aredubjay's Avatar
Aredubjay Aredubjay is offline
Rat Fink Member ~:o)
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Owensboro, KY
Posts: 11,672
Send a message via ICQ to Aredubjay Send a message via AIM to Aredubjay Send a message via Yahoo to Aredubjay
Registered SVX
Quote:
Originally posted by Joe 90
The complete rebuild cost me about $2100 CDN ($1300 for our American friends).... Not bad at all considering what some other people paid!
That's a good price, to be sure. My SECOND rebuild (on the REAL SVX tranny cost me 1200.00). It sounds to me like your transfer clutches are gone, but, not actually "feeling" what it's doing makes it hard to tell. When my transfer clutches were going, It would especially show itself on a hard left turn from a stop (like when goosing it to beat traffic out of a stop sign). The car would bog down and shudder before it straightened up. Of course, this was a Legacy tranny into an SVX rear end (mismatched gear ratios). Are you sure you don't have a Legacy trans in your car?
__________________
Randy Johnson
3rd Registered Member 02-21-2001
First Member to Reach 10,000 Posts
First to arrive at the very first Reading Meet
Subaru Ambassador

1992 SVX PPG Pace Car Replica 110+k
1993 White Impreza L 240+K miles
2001 Legacy Outback Limited Sedan 250+K miles
2013 Deep Indigo Pearl Legacy 3.6R 49+K miles

"Reading is my favorite Holiday"
Mike Davis -- at Reading VI
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-25-2001, 10:40 AM
Joe 90's Avatar
Joe 90 Joe 90 is offline
Canadian eh!
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 101
Quote:
Originally posted by Aredubjay


Are you sure you don't have a Legacy trans in your car?
I bought the car 3 years ago (lease return) and it was working perfectly (couldn't spin the wheels even on gravel!). Then, is slowly started.... At first, the delay was very small but it kept growing. Meanwhile, the tranny started slipping so I had it rebuilt.

I explained the problem to the tech and he looked at the transfer case section closely and found no defects.... He say that the problem comes from somewhere else. So yesterday, I changed the VSS with no improvement. Now, Should I change the duty solenoid??? The TCU??? or...???

Is there a way to reset the TCU? 'cause the it gives me no trouble codes.... maybe resetting...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-25-2001, 11:52 AM
EveryShadeofBlue EveryShadeofBlue is offline
British Car Junky
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 223
Send a message via AIM to EveryShadeofBlue Send a message via Yahoo to EveryShadeofBlue
had the same problem

Joe, Before my transmission gave out I had the same problem and symptoms you have. My very reliable and competent dealer was 90% sure it was a wiring harness issue, something that would likely not be replaced during a rebuild, which may be why you still have the problem. Getting the new/Subaru remanufactured transmission immediately solved the problem. Luckily I never did replace the wiring harness ($500) because my transmission blew out 3 months later and it would have been a waste to replace the harness on a soon-to-be-dead transmission.

Jeff
__________________
Jeff - Tampa, FL -
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-25-2001, 11:59 AM
Joe 90's Avatar
Joe 90 Joe 90 is offline
Canadian eh!
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 101
Re: had the same problem

Quote:
Originally posted by EveryShadeofBlue
My very reliable and competent dealer was 90% sure it was a wiring harness issue, something that would likely not be replaced during a rebuild, which may be why you still have the problem.
Jeff
Sorry, I forgot to mention that the VSS I replaced, came with the wiring harness... (94 model) so this has been taken care of.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-25-2001, 12:44 PM
Aredubjay's Avatar
Aredubjay Aredubjay is offline
Rat Fink Member ~:o)
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Owensboro, KY
Posts: 11,672
Send a message via ICQ to Aredubjay Send a message via AIM to Aredubjay Send a message via Yahoo to Aredubjay
Registered SVX
Quote:
Originally posted by Joe 90


I bought the car 3 years ago (lease return) and it was working perfectly (couldn't spin the wheels even on gravel!). Then, is slowly started.... At first, the delay was very small but it kept growing. Meanwhile, the tranny started slipping so I had it rebuilt.

I explained the problem to the tech and he looked at the transfer case section closely and found no defects.... He say that the problem comes from somewhere else. So yesterday, I changed the VSS with no improvement. Now, Should I change the duty solenoid??? The TCU??? or...???

Is there a way to reset the TCU? 'cause the it gives me no trouble codes.... maybe resetting...
Joe, there's a procedure for reading stored codes (from previous problems). I have the procedure at home, or, if SVXcess comes along, perhaps he can post them -- or someone else, if they have them. Sorry. I feel so helpless. The thing about it is, the TCU will only tell you if a problem is electronic. If the problem is mechanical (which is my guess), it will not give you a code. The only time an electrical problem code will not show up, is when the unit in question is just within tolerance -- causing the part to malfunction due to inefficiency, but, still telling the TCU that it's "within tolerable limits."
__________________
Randy Johnson
3rd Registered Member 02-21-2001
First Member to Reach 10,000 Posts
First to arrive at the very first Reading Meet
Subaru Ambassador

1992 SVX PPG Pace Car Replica 110+k
1993 White Impreza L 240+K miles
2001 Legacy Outback Limited Sedan 250+K miles
2013 Deep Indigo Pearl Legacy 3.6R 49+K miles

"Reading is my favorite Holiday"
Mike Davis -- at Reading VI
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-25-2001, 06:21 PM
svx_commuter's Avatar
svx_commuter svx_commuter is offline
Making tires round, Six now :)
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North Jersey
Posts: 3,433
Hello Joe,

I too share your problem. No rear wheel drive What a bummer.

Got not trouble lights? I have none either.

Check the transfer pressure? Be there in person when your tranny person does it. It is the plug on the side near the top of the transfer housing on the driver side. It is 10mm(1.0) {Corrected 10-26-001} with an o-ring seal. A 1/8"NPT pipe nipple will grab a few threads. There should be pressure there when the car is running and the trans is in R or D.

My car has no pressure there. I have concluded the transfer valve is stuck. This is really a pilot valve that works the transfer valve and the solenoid is in between. Any one of these items could be stuck: pilot, transfer or solenoid. There are no warning lights if these stick. The only way to check is measure the pressure at that port. The maual has spec's for the proper values.

The question is...... Why does it stick? It could be worn out because it is always in motion or is it just gummed up? I would like to know if you find out.

Is your TPS original? Have you had a TPS code from the ECU? How many miles on the car?

This info would be helpful.

Last edited by svx_commuter; 10-26-2001 at 03:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-25-2001, 11:38 PM
vkykam's Avatar
vkykam vkykam is offline
The Road Less Traveled
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 824
I can live with $2100. (Not that I'm hoarding a money tree...)

Where'd you get the rebuild done?

VK


Quote:
Originally posted by Joe 90
The complete rebuild cost me about $2100 CDN ($1300 for our American friends).... Not bad at all considering what some other people paid!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-26-2001, 12:18 AM
tober76b
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by svx_commuter
Hello Joe,
I too share your problem. No rear wheel drive What a bummer.


i've got that same problem also.
i don't have a 'real job' at the moment, so i've chosen to ignore it.
heh. my ears will perk up if you figure out a solution.
<fingers crossed>
toby
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-26-2001, 05:57 AM
Joe 90's Avatar
Joe 90 Joe 90 is offline
Canadian eh!
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 101
First, thanks everyone for your replies.... I'm "kinda glad" that I'm not the only one with this problem... Together, we might find a solution (hopefuly)


Arebubjay I checked the codes (recent and previous) this morning and the TCU
shows "NO FAULT" (rapid blinking)...

svx_commuter: The transfer pressure eh... Yes, I can do this but.... Do you say
that I need to drive the car with a gauge connected or just up on a lift?

The TPS on the car is original and the car has 207000 Km, but can you explain the relationship between the TSP and the ECU/transfer clutches?

VK (and others interested); I had the transmission done in a town called
"Chambly". It's about 30Km south of Montreal (see below)


Chambly Auto Transmissions
1275 Bourgogne, Chambly, QC J3L 1X8
Phone: (450)447-7606

So, the next step.... My suspicions now are focused on the duty solenoid, But if I do open the back end of the tranny, I would probably change the transfer clutches by the same occasion.

Winter is approaching rapidly, I need "the beauty of wheel drive" back ASAP!

P.S. Toby, I will let everybody know if I find a solution.....
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-26-2001, 10:14 AM
svx_commuter's Avatar
svx_commuter svx_commuter is offline
Making tires round, Six now :)
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North Jersey
Posts: 3,433
Quote:
Originally posted by Joe 90

svx_commuter: The transfer pressure eh... Yes, I can do this but.... Do you say
that I need to drive the car with a gauge connected or just up on a lift?

The TPS on the car is original and the car has 207000 Km, but can you explain the relationship between the TSP and the ECU/transfer clutches?

Winter is approaching rapidly, I need "the beauty of wheel drive" back ASAP!

P.S. Toby, I will let everybody know if I find a solution.....
Yes you can check the transfer clutch pressure with all four wheels on the ground, or on the lift or while you drive.

You had the transmission rebuilt, can I assume this did not include the transfer section or should the rebuilder being doing this work for you? Personally I think it was missed by the rebuilder. No transfer pressure? The rebuilder does the work at their cost. However I do not know the arrangement of the rebuild. Can you tell him he missed something? Have him replace the transfer valve and solenoid assembly?

The TPS is used for a lot of things. Shift points is one of these. I just replaced my TPS and the car is very different. More responsive under light throttle and the 2nd to 3rd slip has gone away for 5 days now. The TPS tells the ECU and TCU if you are opening or closing the throttle. When the TPS is not working correctly these devices (TCU ECU) may think your foot is traveling in the opposite direction from what it is really doing.

TPS is also used to adjust the transmission line pressure and the transfer clutch pressure.

I would like to know if the transfer valve wears out or clogs up? Are the parts worn and do not work any more or has the fluid turned to sluge and clogged up the works? Both of these result in no trouble code.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-26-2001, 10:48 AM
Aredubjay's Avatar
Aredubjay Aredubjay is offline
Rat Fink Member ~:o)
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Owensboro, KY
Posts: 11,672
Send a message via ICQ to Aredubjay Send a message via AIM to Aredubjay Send a message via Yahoo to Aredubjay
Registered SVX
Quote:
[i]The transfer pressure eh...
You said "eh."
__________________
Randy Johnson
3rd Registered Member 02-21-2001
First Member to Reach 10,000 Posts
First to arrive at the very first Reading Meet
Subaru Ambassador

1992 SVX PPG Pace Car Replica 110+k
1993 White Impreza L 240+K miles
2001 Legacy Outback Limited Sedan 250+K miles
2013 Deep Indigo Pearl Legacy 3.6R 49+K miles

"Reading is my favorite Holiday"
Mike Davis -- at Reading VI
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-26-2001, 04:12 PM
svx_commuter's Avatar
svx_commuter svx_commuter is offline
Making tires round, Six now :)
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North Jersey
Posts: 3,433
Transmission pressure tests:
Line pressure for idle in P,N,D,3,2,1 = 64 to 82 psi in R = 85 to 100 psi
At stall speed about 2400 rpm, short term or you burn up the clutches unless the wheels can spin. D,3,2,1 = 164 to 182 psi and in R = 206 to 230 psi

For the rear section, transfer pressure in D or R = 7 to 11 psi at idle and for stall speed 104 to 114 psi.

This is from section 3-2 page 121 of the manual.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2015 SVX World Network
(208)-906-1122