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  #766  
Old 07-26-2008, 04:22 AM
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Dessertrunner Dessertrunner is offline
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Re: Memory dump of ECU

Looks interesting are you going to buy a unit?
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX.
1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC)
1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car.
1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation.
1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track.
1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine.
1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough.
Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR.
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  #767  
Old 07-26-2008, 11:43 AM
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mbtoloczko mbtoloczko is offline
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Re: Memory dump of ECU

Quote:
Originally Posted by b3lha View Post
Check this out! A guy from UKLegacy alerted me to it. A nice diagnostics and datalogging program for Windows that supposedly works with the SVX and other Subarus. Unfortunately it's not free, but it is cheap. I haven't tried it yet, but I certainly plan to have a look at it.

http://www.limitless.co.nz/

I can't help wondering if they borrowed some of our research for this. I don't see how else they could find the memory locations for the SVX without having access to an SVX to experiment with.
I've been using EvoScan with my Evo for about 1.5 years. I had been watching to see when he would add support for the SVX. Since EvoScan simply follows the SSM protocol, I doubt Hamish (EvoScan author) needed to see the guts of the SVX ECU. SSM I'm sure has a standard set of addresses it uses to read key operating parameters so it can work for any SSM-enabled Subaru. He probably doesn't even know if it really works with an SVX. He's just assuming that since the SVX uses SSM, EvoScan will work. What I'm curious about is the cable he sells for the SVX. I see that he sells a cable with a 9-pin plug. Is there a 9-pin SSM plug somewhere on the SVX? Its been too long for me to remember. All I remember were some diagnostic wires that had to be pulled and inserted into specific plugs to read error codes.

If you want to make the disassembly and ROM modification process easier and more accessible, I'm pretty sure that ECUFlash (free) can be used to read and modify the maps in the SVX ROM. You'll need to create definition file (XML-based) that defines the location of each map and the scaling of the values for the maps. You'll also need to find the unique identifier in each type of SVX ROM so that ECUFlash can differentiate between the various SVX ROMs. Here a link to the ECUFlash download:

http://www.openecu.org/index.php?title=EcuFlash
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Last edited by mbtoloczko; 07-26-2008 at 12:33 PM.
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  #768  
Old 07-26-2008, 12:06 PM
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longassname longassname is offline
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Re: Memory dump of ECU

Actually the memory locations are not standard. That's why the select monitor needs a different cartridge for each model or the mega cartridge that has the locations for all the models on it.

The hardware designs suggested in the thread so far aren't quite up to snuff so if that cable does work correctly it could be very useful for those trying to work on this project.

While I'm being helpful I would like to make a correction to something said earlier in this thread so that nobody thinks it's ok to steal my tuning--I'm not especially thrilled when people use it to find rom locations but I understand some temptations are too great the resist. Using my actual tuning is another thing entirely.

It's long stood that unless explicity aggreed to in a terms of use aggreement that a user/owner of software can modify it to expand it's abilities or change it's abilities. When someone buys say a stage 1 from me they are buying a piece of hardware that allows the modification of the software on the ecu, the use of two tunes that can switched between, and a new tuning which expands the abilities of Subaru's original software. The sale of my product does not cause econic harm to Subaru by competing against them. What I am doing has long stood as legal in both US and international copyright precedent.

Now, if someone reads a copy of my software and then sells it in competition against me, or copies my software and further modifies it and then sells it in competion with me, or copies my software and uses the information learned from it to develop a competing product with reduced development costs...those actions have long stood as lillegal in both US and international copyright law.

I do have a masters degree in information systems so I have more knowledge about these things than most. To greatly simplify it for others there is a simple rule you can use to determine if you are in copyright violation. If your use of something someone has written causes them economic harm you are violating their copyright.
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  #769  
Old 07-26-2008, 12:47 PM
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Re: Memory dump of ECU

Michael,
Nicely stated.
-Bill
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  #770  
Old 07-26-2008, 05:54 PM
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Re: Memory dump of ECU

The Select Monitor Cartiage is marked
- 97 Legacy Impreza SVX E12 ViVIO,

Does each of these cars have a different memory address for the engine parmentors?
Tony
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX.
1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC)
1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car.
1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation.
1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track.
1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine.
1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough.
Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR.
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  #771  
Old 07-26-2008, 09:08 PM
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mbtoloczko mbtoloczko is offline
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Re: Memory dump of ECU

Is there a copy of a stock ROM file around somewhere, preferably a USDM one?
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:: 2006 Silver Mitsubishi Evolution 9, E85, 34 psi peak, 425wtq/505whp DJ ::
1995 Laguna Blue SVX L AWD 5MT (sold)

Visit my locker

SVX Mods: ND iridium spark plugs, Impreza RS fpr, afr tuned to 13.2:1 using a custom MAF bypass, custom exhaust, WRX 5MT w/ STi RA 1st-4th gear & stock WRX 5th gear, Exedy 13 lb flywheel & Sport Clutch, STi Group N tranny & engine mounts, urethane spacers in rear subframe, rear diff mounts, and pitch stopper, SVX Sport Strut Springs (185f/150r), custom 19 mm rear swaybar, urethane swaybar mounts, Rota Torque 17x8", 225/45-17 Proxes 4 tires, Axxis Deluxe Plus organic brake pads.
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  #772  
Old 07-26-2008, 09:22 PM
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Re: Memory dump of ECU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dessertrunner View Post
The Select Monitor Cartiage is marked
- 97 Legacy Impreza SVX E12 ViVIO,

Does each of these cars have a different memory address for the engine parmentors?
Tony
wow, that is very strange.
Great for me! but still very confusing, i guess i'll learn why soon
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  #773  
Old 07-27-2008, 06:25 PM
genzzel genzzel is offline
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Re: Memory dump of ECU

Well--I am going to get a cable seeing how never got the other one I paid for--Thank the Lord someone is making one.
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  #774  
Old 07-28-2008, 03:55 AM
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b3lha b3lha is offline
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Re: Memory dump of ECU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dessertrunner View Post
Looks interesting are you going to buy a unit?
I'm thinking of buying a copy of the software. But first I've emailed him asking for more information about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbtoloczko View Post
Since EvoScan simply follows the SSM protocol, I doubt Hamish (EvoScan author) needed to see the guts of the SVX ECU. SSM I'm sure has a standard set of addresses it uses to read key operating parameters so it can work for any SSM-enabled Subaru.
No. The locations are not standard. They are different for each type of ECU. Either he had access to an SVX ECU, or our research, or maybe the locations have to be configured by the user of the software.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbtoloczko View Post
What I'm curious about is the cable he sells for the SVX. I see that he sells a cable with a 9-pin plug. Is there a 9-pin SSM plug somewhere on the SVX?
Yes. The yellow SSM plug in the driver's kick panel. Our latest cable design works perfectly. I read somewhere that the cable he is selling is just an FTDI USB-TTL cable with a Legacy Radio Harness soldered on the end. Just like the one Nomake Wan was using. It will need the upgrade board in order to work on cars with the "92 problem".
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbtoloczko View Post
If you want to make the disassembly and ROM modification process easier and more accessible, I'm pretty sure that ECUFlash (free) can be used to read and modify the maps in the SVX ROM.
The whole goal of this project is to make it more accessible. ECUflash doesn't work on the older JECS OBD1 ECU like ours. It would be interesting to see if it would work on the newer OBD2 ECU. I've never had the chance to examine an OBD2 ECU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbtoloczko View Post
Is there a copy of a stock ROM file around somewhere, preferably a USDM one?
On my website. http://www.alcyone.org.uk/ssm/roms/ There is also an definition file for Enginuity/RomRaider that might help make sense of it. The website is long overdue for an update.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dessertrunner View Post
Does each of these cars have a different memory address for the engine parmentors?
Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by genzzel View Post
Well--I am going to get a cable seeing how never got the other one I paid for--Thank the Lord someone is making one.
If I knew there was a demand I would have made some. I had two units for sale before and people didn't exactly snap them up.
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1992 Alcyone SVX Version L
1992 Alcyone SVX Version L
1994 Alcyone SVX S40-II
2004 Subaru Legacy 2.5 SE Sports Tourer
1996 Subaru Legacy 2.2 GX Wagon
1988 Subaru Justy J12 SL-II

Last edited by b3lha; 07-28-2008 at 09:27 AM.
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  #775  
Old 07-28-2008, 05:44 AM
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b3lha b3lha is offline
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Re: Memory dump of ECU

Quote:
Originally Posted by longassname View Post
While I'm being helpful I would like to make a correction to something said earlier in this thread so that nobody thinks it's ok to steal my tuning--I'm not especially thrilled when people use it to find rom locations but I understand some temptations are too great the resist. Using my actual tuning is another thing entirely.

It's long stood that unless explicity aggreed to in a terms of use aggreement that a user/owner of software can modify it to expand it's abilities or change it's abilities. When someone buys say a stage 1 from me they are buying a piece of hardware that allows the modification of the software on the ecu, the use of two tunes that can switched between, and a new tuning which expands the abilities of Subaru's original software. The sale of my product does not cause econic harm to Subaru by competing against them. What I am doing has long stood as legal in both US and international copyright precedent.

Now, if someone reads a copy of my software and then sells it in competition against me, or copies my software and further modifies it and then sells it in competion with me, or copies my software and uses the information learned from it to develop a competing product with reduced development costs...those actions have long stood as lillegal in both US and international copyright law.

I do have a masters degree in information systems so I have more knowledge about these things than most. To greatly simplify it for others there is a simple rule you can use to determine if you are in copyright violation. If your use of something someone has written causes them economic harm you are violating their copyright.
Micheal, you are the established guru in this area and your help and insight is always appreciated. I welcome any contribution you have to make.

As mentioned at least once in this thread. Nobody here has any intention of competing with you or stealing your hard work. I am not selling bootleg copies of your ECUtune chips and I have not heard of anybody else doing so. There was an unsubstantiated allegation about Budfreak wanting to do that, but I doubt that he has the expertise to do so on his own and I am certainly not going to help him.

I resent your accusation that I may have looked at your work to find variable locations. I assure you this is absolutely not the case. As a professional computer geek, I am perfectly capable of finding them myself. To give credit where it is due, I have learned a lot from reading the various threads that you have posted here about your work. I always enjoy reading your technical discussions.

I am not an expert on US or International copyright law, but I disagree with your interpretation. The amount of "economic harm" does not change the legality. Although it may affect whether the copyright owner decides to sue the infringer and how much damages are claimed.

I also do not believe that it is "your software", unless you are claiming to have entirely rewritten it from scratch. We both know that would be very hard to do and therefore I believe that you are distributing Subaru's software, with a few changes. You cannot legally buy a book, change a couple of pages and then claim copyright over the whole book and sell it as your own work.

At best you can claim ownership over the bytes you have changed, but even that is tenuous because the fuel and timing maps are not a creative work. They are control parameters for the engine. The same values could be arrived at independantly by other tuners trying to acheive the same state of tune. If several tuners were asked to find the optimum tuning for an SVX engine, they would probably all come up with similar values.

If I decided to raise my rev limiter to 7400, would that mean that I copied part of your work? Or does it just mean that I think 7400 is an optimum value for the rev limit. Do you think that you should be the only person allowed to set the rev limit to 7400? Maybe I should stake a claim to values from 6800 through 7350? OK. I'm being silly now. But the point I am trying to make is that it is hard to claim valid ownership of control parameters.

Regardless, this discussion is pointless. As already stated, I have no intention of ripping off your work, and nor do any of the other contributors to this thread. My repeated advice to anyone wanting an off-the-shelf tuning product is to go and buy one from Longassname. The research we are doing in this thread is simply intended to make it easier for people who want to mod their own ECU and TCU to their own requirements.

Phil.
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1992 Alcyone SVX Version L
1992 Alcyone SVX Version L
1994 Alcyone SVX S40-II
2004 Subaru Legacy 2.5 SE Sports Tourer
1996 Subaru Legacy 2.2 GX Wagon
1988 Subaru Justy J12 SL-II

Last edited by b3lha; 07-28-2008 at 05:56 AM.
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  #776  
Old 07-28-2008, 09:16 PM
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longassname longassname is offline
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Re: Memory dump of ECU

Hello Phil,

That's all I was trying to clear up. From everything I was taught in several graduate courses the view you had expressed earlier and just did again on software copyright is dead wrong. It's also contrary to the legal opinion that was given to me when incorporating ECUtune.


I am not selling the Subaru software. As the owners of SVX ecu's my customers already own the Subaru software. I am selling modifications to the software and hardware which enables those modifications and multiple tunes. If this was an OBDII engine management system then I would be selling a flash dongle which applied the changes without rewriting the Subaru software; however, since it is an OBDI system the base code and modifications must be packaged together. This isn't a problem since in order to use it you must actually already own an SVX ECU.

I very certainly can claim copyright on my modifications. That does not mean that if one were to figure out where the rev limit data is stored on their own and wanted to change that data to equal 7400 rpms and figure out how to do so on their own that they could not do so. It does mean that someone could not use my software to figure out the location, and or what to change the data to, and then do so.

So anyway..the rule of thumb I gave before isn't mine; it's not something I made up. It's an accepted rule of thumb. You may note that in the examples you gave that were supposed to sound rediculous they did not meet the rule of thumb because they did not involve the use of someone elses work. If your use of someone elses work causes them financial harm then you are violating their copyright. If your completely independent work produces the same results of someone else you haven't used their work and haven't met the rule of thumb.

The reason I am trying to make this clear is because while you may do your own work I am not as confident as you that nobody else will use your work to steal my work. They should know that if they do so...whether they sell my work or email it to people for free, or post it for others to have for free they will be liable for all financial losses I might ever suffer as a result.



Quote:
Originally Posted by b3lha View Post
Micheal, you are the established guru in this area and your help and insight is always appreciated. I welcome any contribution you have to make.

As mentioned at least once in this thread. Nobody here has any intention of competing with you or stealing your hard work. I am not selling bootleg copies of your ECUtune chips and I have not heard of anybody else doing so. There was an unsubstantiated allegation about Budfreak wanting to do that, but I doubt that he has the expertise to do so on his own and I am certainly not going to help him.

I resent your accusation that I may have looked at your work to find variable locations. I assure you this is absolutely not the case. As a professional computer geek, I am perfectly capable of finding them myself. To give credit where it is due, I have learned a lot from reading the various threads that you have posted here about your work. I always enjoy reading your technical discussions.

I am not an expert on US or International copyright law, but I disagree with your interpretation. The amount of "economic harm" does not change the legality. Although it may affect whether the copyright owner decides to sue the infringer and how much damages are claimed.

I also do not believe that it is "your software", unless you are claiming to have entirely rewritten it from scratch. We both know that would be very hard to do and therefore I believe that you are distributing Subaru's software, with a few changes. You cannot legally buy a book, change a couple of pages and then claim copyright over the whole book and sell it as your own work.

At best you can claim ownership over the bytes you have changed, but even that is tenuous because the fuel and timing maps are not a creative work. They are control parameters for the engine. The same values could be arrived at independantly by other tuners trying to acheive the same state of tune. If several tuners were asked to find the optimum tuning for an SVX engine, they would probably all come up with similar values.

If I decided to raise my rev limiter to 7400, would that mean that I copied part of your work? Or does it just mean that I think 7400 is an optimum value for the rev limit. Do you think that you should be the only person allowed to set the rev limit to 7400? Maybe I should stake a claim to values from 6800 through 7350? OK. I'm being silly now. But the point I am trying to make is that it is hard to claim valid ownership of control parameters.

Regardless, this discussion is pointless. As already stated, I have no intention of ripping off your work, and nor do any of the other contributors to this thread. My repeated advice to anyone wanting an off-the-shelf tuning product is to go and buy one from Longassname. The research we are doing in this thread is simply intended to make it easier for people who want to mod their own ECU and TCU to their own requirements.

Phil.
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  #777  
Old 07-29-2008, 03:55 AM
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b3lha b3lha is offline
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Re: Memory dump of ECU

Quote:
Originally Posted by longassname View Post
Hello Phil,

That's all I was trying to clear up. From everything I was taught in several graduate courses the view you had expressed earlier and just did again on software copyright is dead wrong. It's also contrary to the legal opinion that was given to me when incorporating ECUtune.


I am not selling the Subaru software. As the owners of SVX ecu's my customers already own the Subaru software. I am selling modifications to the software and hardware which enables those modifications and multiple tunes. If this was an OBDII engine management system then I would be selling a flash dongle which applied the changes without rewriting the Subaru software; however, since it is an OBDI system the base code and modifications must be packaged together. This isn't a problem since in order to use it you must actually already own an SVX ECU.

I very certainly can claim copyright on my modifications. That does not mean that if one were to figure out where the rev limit data is stored on their own and wanted to change that data to equal 7400 rpms and figure out how to do so on their own that they could not do so. It does mean that someone could not use my software to figure out the location, and or what to change the data to, and then do so.

So anyway..the rule of thumb I gave before isn't mine; it's not something I made up. It's an accepted rule of thumb. You may note that in the examples you gave that were supposed to sound rediculous they did not meet the rule of thumb because they did not involve the use of someone elses work. If your use of someone elses work causes them financial harm then you are violating their copyright. If your completely independent work produces the same results of someone else you haven't used their work and haven't met the rule of thumb.

The reason I am trying to make this clear is because while you may do your own work I am not as confident as you that nobody else will use your work to steal my work. They should know that if they do so...whether they sell my work or email it to people for free, or post it for others to have for free they will be liable for all financial losses I might ever suffer as a result.
OK Michael,

We agree that the modifications you make to Subaru's software belong to you. If I hear of anybody distributing copies or derivatives of your work then I will inform you and you can put your legal theory to the test. I really hope that the members of this community have enough integrity not to steal your work.

I am not in the tuning business and I have no commercial interest in this. It's just a hobby for me. Any information I uncover, or modified eproms that I make will be posted on my website for others to use as they please. But it is all strictly experimental and it comes with no warranty whatsoever. I am well aware that throughout the course of this thread I have already posted a certain amount of erroneous information but that is the nature of experimental work and I'm trying to correct it as I go along.

Phil.
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Subaru ECU and TCU Website
1992 Alcyone SVX Version L
1992 Alcyone SVX Version L
1994 Alcyone SVX S40-II
2004 Subaru Legacy 2.5 SE Sports Tourer
1996 Subaru Legacy 2.2 GX Wagon
1988 Subaru Justy J12 SL-II

Last edited by b3lha; 07-29-2008 at 03:59 AM.
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  #778  
Old 07-29-2008, 09:17 AM
racerx9146 racerx9146 is offline
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Re: Memory dump of ECU

Longassname

I purchased your product and think it is very good and reasonably priced.

But this complaint/protest sounds like sour grapes. Have you sold your product to anybody on this list and have you any evidence they have dumped the rom and used the info?

I cant see how this complaint will do anything but generate negative press for you. If you have a legit complaint file a claim.
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  #779  
Old 07-29-2008, 09:18 AM
Mrdjc Mrdjc is offline
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Re: Memory dump of ECU

Hi all, I've been trying to get SSM to work on my 1996 Legacy Sedan.

I stumbled across Phil's page a number of times during my search, and have managed to piece together most of the hardware as well as trying to troubleshoot.

Currently I am using a FTDI USB-RS232 TTL 5.0V Adapter
Along with Phil's "92 Fix" Adapted for the FTDI Lead to try and sort out the problem of a dodgey connection.
Connected up to an Audioleads ISO plug.

I have tried using various bits of software but there aren't many out there that support SSM. At the moment I am using Evoscan, their latest release is the best yet (In terms of stability for me.) But its still far from perfect.
With the VWRX Monitor software, I get random results, and values seem to appear and dissapear when I run the SelectMonitor Dump software.
It will make a pass through an address, a value will come up, then it makes another pass (I.e. it polls it again) and the value is suddenly 0 until I close the program and restart it.

Anyhow, I've been in touch with Phil via email, trying to work out what is causing all this.
So he referred me to Nomake Wan's post about RS232 Hex Comm Tool. No matter how I adjust the Potentiometer on the "92 Fix" board.
I still cant get a clear run of 123400.
There are errors in the way the data comes back, which appear to follow a pattern.
At first I suspected something on my laptop was interfering, so I closed down the only other Com port (my modem), and got PortMon as suggested by someone earlier in this thread.
There is nothing else using the com port.

Can anyone please help me?
I'm on my second "92 fix" board, with the same results. I am about to send the first one to a friend who also uses the FTDI Lead, to see if he has any luck.

Please take a look at the schematic of the 92 fix for FTDI
And also enclosed is a small Dump from the RS232 Program to show you what data I get back.

Regards,
Daniel.

P.s. If I can get all of this to work properly, I have looked into producing these kits all tidied away in a little box with USB at one end and J35 Plug on the other end. It would be between £35-£40 per lead, if I get demand for more than 10.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 92fixschem.jpg (69.0 KB, 520 views)
Attached Files
File Type: txt dump2.txt (8.7 KB, 493 views)
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  #780  
Old 07-29-2008, 09:32 AM
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Phil & Belha
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Alcyone Limited, Buckinghamshire UK
Posts: 2,671
Re: Memory dump of ECU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrdjc View Post
Hi all, I've been trying to get SSM to work on my 1996 Legacy Sedan.

I stumbled across Phil's page a number of times during my search, and have managed to piece together most of the hardware as well as trying to troubleshoot.

Currently I am using a FTDI USB-RS232 TTL 5.0V Adapter
Along with Phil's "92 Fix" Adapted for the FTDI Lead to try and sort out the problem of a dodgey connection.
Connected up to an Audioleads ISO plug.

I have tried using various bits of software but there aren't many out there that support SSM. At the moment I am using Evoscan, their latest release is the best yet (In terms of stability for me.) But its still far from perfect.
With the VWRX Monitor software, I get random results, and values seem to appear and dissapear when I run the SelectMonitor Dump software.
It will make a pass through an address, a value will come up, then it makes another pass (I.e. it polls it again) and the value is suddenly 0 until I close the program and restart it.

Anyhow, I've been in touch with Phil via email, trying to work out what is causing all this.
So he referred me to Nomake Wan's post about RS232 Hex Comm Tool. No matter how I adjust the Potentiometer on the "92 Fix" board.
I still cant get a clear run of 123400.
There are errors in the way the data comes back, which appear to follow a pattern.
At first I suspected something on my laptop was interfering, so I closed down the only other Com port (my modem), and got PortMon as suggested by someone earlier in this thread.
There is nothing else using the com port.

Can anyone please help me?
I'm on my second "92 fix" board, with the same results. I am about to send the first one to a friend who also uses the FTDI Lead, to see if he has any luck.

Please take a look at the schematic of the 92 fix for FTDI
And also enclosed is a small Dump from the RS232 Program to show you what data I get back.

Regards,
Daniel.

P.s. If I can get all of this to work properly, I have looked into producing these kits all tidied away in a little box with USB at one end and J35 Plug on the other end. It would be between £35-£40 per lead, if I get demand for more than 10.
Hi Daniel,
That dump file looks good to me. 123400 repeated over and over with no corruption. Am I missing something?
The one you sent me before showed a problem, but this one looks OK.
Phil.
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1992 Alcyone SVX Version L
1992 Alcyone SVX Version L
1994 Alcyone SVX S40-II
2004 Subaru Legacy 2.5 SE Sports Tourer
1996 Subaru Legacy 2.2 GX Wagon
1988 Subaru Justy J12 SL-II

Last edited by b3lha; 07-29-2008 at 09:43 AM.
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