Viper on fire pics

[Tim]

From what I've read, JD power and associates ratings should be taken with a grain of salt, because their testing is usually not very accurate.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by Shadow248

Hey I can do that too:

"your bad experience means nothing in Landshark's World - i've known many people who have owned several brilliant pieces of craptastic Subaru engineering, but Landshark won't allow that as evidence. why?

1) he is a fanboi and blindly buys and defends anything Subaru produces

try again - i'll be the first to tell anyone that the new corporate grille makes me throw up in my mouth a bit. i hope that Subaru revises it by the time i'm ready for a new car, or there are aftermarket bumpers/grilles available that are more pleasing. i couldn't stand to see something looking like that in my driveway. with many other marques picking up on the AWD, i will consider what's out there when i'm done with teh LGT.

2) he knows of Domestics that he and other people had bad experiences with

actually, i know mostly about GM's that have been crap. don't know many friends and family with Chryslers ( a few Jeeps i guess), and very few Ford products.

3) getting kicked in the nuts by a car company repeatedly doesn't mean you shouldn't stop buying their products

nope. Subaru hasn't given me the drop kick in the cojones yet. sorry. never left me stranded, most reliable cars i've ever owned.

4) Subaru quality is good, because Subaru said so

nope. Subaru quality is good because i haven't been let down yet with three of them. not so with teh GMs.

and i'll add a better one...

5) JD Power has Subaru ranked below every GM division in quality, but he says they can't be trusted and that's only initial quality, which doesn't matter.

technically, if you want to go by JD Power, my LGT had two inital quality issues: steering wheel off center - alignment at dealer; and a dash rattle, which i fixed in about 4 minutes with a piece of foam (TSB for it, dealer would have installed a rubber spacer). i'll take that any day over a GM falling apart at 60k miles.

IByournotlaughingnow

actually, i am. LOLOLOL

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by TE1221

From what I've read, JD power and associates ratings should be taken with a grain of salt, because their testing is usually not very accurate.

I'm certainly not saying JD Power is the final say in anything automotive. However, they are the only true independent evaluation organization, and they are recognized as the goto group by almost all the major automotive manufacturers. I did several presentations on this subject, and I was able to find fault in every single tester out there, JD Power was the closest thing to a "non-biased" organization that I could find. So then I guess my question is, if not them, who?

Originally Posted by Landshark

try again - i'll be the first to tell anyone that the new corporate grille makes me throw up in my mouth a bit. i hope that Subaru revises it by the time i'm ready for a new car, or there are aftermarket bumpers/grilles available that are more pleasing. i couldn't stand to see something looking like that in my driveway. with many other marques picking up on the AWD, i will consider what's out there when i'm done with teh LGT.

Agreed. Subaru really messed this one up. I never really liked their vehicle styling to begin with, but I could deal with it. This new grille is just painful.

Originally Posted by Landhshark

nope. Subaru hasn't given me the drop kick in the cojones yet. sorry. never left me stranded, most reliable cars i've ever owned.

Since you feel this way, and I understand that...when are you going to understand that I feel the same way about GM that you do about Subaru? I've had other makes, and so have my family and friends, and in my experiences, nothing has come close to the reliability and low-cost repairs of a GM vehicle.
I've told you this many times before, and i've shown evidence to prove that there's nothing wrong with GM now. But you still want to dispute. I don't get it.

[halistan]

Originally Posted by Shadow248

when are you going to understand that I feel the same way about GM that you do about Subaru? I've had other makes, and so have my family and friends, and in my experiences, nothing has come close to the reliability and low-cost repairs of a GM vehicle.
I've told you this many times before, and i've shown evidence to prove that there's nothing wrong with GM now. But you still want to dispute. I don't get it.

why in blue blazes are you on a subaru message board??? I mean if Alan were on a GM board being the owner of a subaru i would expect opposition like this....but um....well he's not.

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by halistan

why in blue blazes are you on a subaru message board??? I mean if Alan were on a GM board being the owner of a subaru i would expect opposition like this....but um....well he's not.

That's no excuse. Plenty of guys on LS1tech (a GM board) have STi's and Evo's, and have had a GM sports car in the past, they keep posting and nobody there has any trouble accepting their opinions (and yes it is exactly like this situation). Your opinion is your opinion, and I certainly respect that. But i'm not going to just sit around and watch while you and others try to make out GM as some horrible crap maker just because you've had a couple of bad experiences. Boohoo. I would expect people on a SUBARU site to all be SUBARU fanbois, as I have found most are here. However that doesn't mean you can't recognize great cars just because they don't wear the Subaru badge...or more importantly, just because they wear a badge of a company that you have some personal grudge against.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by Shadow248

That's no excuse. Plenty of guys on LS1tech (a GM board) have STi's and Evo's, and have had a GM sports car in the past, they keep posting and nobody there has any trouble accepting their opinions (and yes it is exactly like this situation).

not exactly - you never owned a Subaru, your girlfriend used to.

But i'm not going to just sit around and watch while you and others try to make out GM as some horrible crap maker just because you've had a couple of bad experiences. Boohoo.

do you wear a shiny gold suit with "GM" emblazoned across the chest, and a big flowing cape when you post on here?

let's try it this way: you go to a restaurant on three separate occaisions, and each time you get food poisoning. friends and family members have also eaten at this restaurant, and have also had violent diarrhea. after years of reports of the bad food, the owner of the restaurant suddenly declares, "we've changed! things are better now!" would you go back for dinner?

I would expect people on a SUBARU site to all be SUBARU fanbois, as I have found most are here. However that doesn't mean you can't recognize great cars just because they don't wear the Subaru badge...or more importantly, just because they wear a badge of a company that you have some personal grudge against.

some are fanbois on here, but i'm not. i do recognize great cars from other marques - GM has the new Corvette, although its too expensive for me and not practical. they also have.....uh.....yeah.

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by Landshark

not exactly - you never owned a Subaru, your girlfriend used to.

No, I owned it. She payed for it and rode in it. That's it. I cleaned it, fixed it, upgraded it, drove it. To say she owned the car is like saying she owns every road she drives on. Yeah she helped pay for the roads, but that's it.

Originally Posted by Landshark

let's try it this way: you go to a restaurant on three separate occaisions, and each time you get food poisoning. friends and family members have also eaten at this restaurant, and have also had violent diarrhea. after years of reports of the bad food, the owner of the restaurant suddenly declares, "we've changed! things are better now!" would you go back for dinner?

But see again, that's not what i'm talking about. Let's take that same restaurant that you are talking about and say that i've been there, and i know of many of my family and friends have been there, and have raved about it, and said it's not only cheaper than alot of other restaurants, it also has better food. They've never gotten sick or even disliked anything they ate there. To top it off, restaurant critics give it solid reviews. Other people who love the other "international" restaurants in the area look down on it becuase it offers cheaper american food. To please these people, the restaurant expands it's menu to include some international dishes. I'd recommend it to everyone, even if they didn't like it before, or maybe got sick a few times there. Based on my own experiences, and experiences of many people i've known, and some renowned critics, it's a good place, despite what a few people have said.

Originally Posted by Landshark

some are fanbois on here, but i'm not. i do recognize great cars from other marques - GM has the new Corvette, although its too expensive for me and not practical. they also have.....uh.....yeah.

This is all a matter of opinion, but what about Cobalt, G6 , SSR, Grand Prix GXP, any Cadillac, or of course, ANY GM truck? These are vehicles that I and most people would agree are pretty nice cars. Even though they may not be exactly what someone wants, or maybe some people don't like certain ones for personal reasons. Compare those vehicles to Toyotas yawn-inspiring lineup. Or Honda's for that matter.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Shadow248

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah ^ eleventybillion!!11!!!!11!!1

most imports > *

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by Noir

I ate my crayon

A dead Lemming > *

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by Shadow248

No, I owned it. She payed for it and rode in it. That's it. I cleaned it, fixed it, upgraded it, drove it. To say she owned the car is like saying she owns every road she drives on. Yeah she helped pay for the roads, but that's it.

sounds like you got owned.

But see again, that's not what i'm talking about. Let's take that same restaurant that you are talking about and say that i've been there, and i know of many of my family and friends have been there, and have raved about it, and said it's not only cheaper than alot of other restaurants, it also has better food. They've never gotten sick or even disliked anything they ate there. To top it off, restaurant critics give it solid reviews. Other people who love the other "international" restaurants in the area look down on it becuase it offers cheaper american food. To please these people, the restaurant expands it's menu to include some international dishes. I'd recommend it to everyone, even if they didn't like it before, or maybe got sick a few times there. Based on my own experiences, and experiences of many people i've known, and some renowned critics, it's a good place, despite what a few people have said.

that restaurant still left a bad taste in my mouth. the critics don't have the food in their stomach long enough to digest it all.

This is all a matter of opinion, but what about Cobalt, G6 , SSR, any Cadillac, or of course, ANY GM truck? These are vehicles that I and most people would agree are pretty nice cars. Even though they may not be exactly what someone wants, or maybe some people don't like certain ones for personal reasons. Compare those vehicles to Toyotas yawn-inspiring lineup. Or Honda's for that matter.

Cobalt, G6 , Gran Prix = yawn, dime-a-dozen
Cadillac = too pricey, too ugly, too common
SSR = its a sporty truck, but its not good as a sports car, and its not good as a truck. its for posers to floss down the boulevard with.

i didn't include trucks or SUVs, because i have no use for one, but if i did , i wouldn't rule out GM.

Toyotas and Hondas may be dull, but they do have a long history of reliability . can't say that for GM.

you don't have to try to argue GM's virtues - i'm not going to run out and buy one. even if i am convinced of their supposed improved quality, they don't make anything i'd want to buy anyway. i could care less if you like Subarus, Hondas, or Toyotas, so why do you care what i think about GM?

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Landshark

that restaurant still left a bad taste in my mouth. the critics don't have the food in their stomach long enough to digest it all.

Ah, but you see, the bad taste from food poisoning and diarrhea is good for us. It causes our bodies to grow chest hairs and the powerful lungs to call out to the wild like tarzan.

Originally Posted by Shadow248

A dead Lemming > *

A two-toothed redneck sporting a TransAM spitting out Skoal juice > imports with dead lemmings in thte trunk.

You are my hero Shadow!

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by Landshark

sounds like you got owned.

Well isn't that life?

Originally Posted by Landshark

that restaurant still left a bad taste in my mouth. the critics don't have the food in their stomach long enough to digest it all.

Originally Posted by Landshark

Cobalt, G6 , Gran Prix = yawn, dime-a-dozen
Cadillac = too pricey, too ugly, too common
SSR = its a sporty truck, but its not good as a sports car, and its not good as a truck. its for posers to floss down the boulevard with.

Like I said it's all a matter of opinion. I just listed those because i'm pretty positive that most people would agree they are nice cars. Not that everyone would love to own one, or is saving for one right now, but they garner respect. That's what I meant.

Originally Posted by Landshark

Toyotas and Hondas may be dull, but they do have a long history of reliability . can't say that for GM.

Two points here.

1 - Yes they have a history of reliability. However that history is fading. Whereas GM's history is improving in leaps and bounds. Given the price difference and absence of dullness in GM vehicles, I see lots of potential.

2 - What good is the most reliable car in the world if you don't like it? Bottom line is you have to like the car you drive, whether it's reliable or not. If there was only one awesome looking/running car out there and every other car available looked like the Toyota Camry, and the awesome car was known for horrible reliability, i'd still buy it. Because I couldn't live with a Toyota Camry.

Originally Posted by Landshark

you don't have to try to argue GM's virtues - i'm not going to run out and buy one. even if i am convinced of their supposed improved quality, they don't make anything i'd want to buy anyway. i could care less if you like Subarus, Hondas, or Toyotas, so why do you care what i think about GM?

This is part of my overall point. I'm not trying to tell you what to buy. I'm simply pointing out that you and others are wrong when you/they say things like this...

Originally Posted by halistan

oh well, don't buy american i always say (where cars are concerned anyway).

Originally Posted by Landshark

my brother and i used to own a particular car of the same make, model, and year (Shadow knows which one ). our computers both went out at roughly 70,000 miles. what preventative maintenance should we have done to prevent that? i'm sure it was just a coincidence.

Just because of your handful of bad experiences, that doesn't mean an entire car company is sub-par. Sorry to rain on your parade, again.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Shadow248

1 - Yes they have a history of reliability. However that history is fading. Whereas GM's history is improving in leaps and bounds. Given the price difference and absence of dullness in GM vehicles, I see lots of potential.

Sources? Mighty Mouse please show me the errors of my thinking. Thanks!

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by Noir

Sources? Mighty Mouse please show me the errors of my thinking. Thanks!

Gladly. Enjoy...

http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases...asp?ID=2005069

For those who don't care that much, the link will show you that Buick and Cadillac landed in the top 5 makes in initial quality. Ahead of Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and Subaru. In fact, every GM division did better than Subaru. GM vehicles also took 5 out of 18 best in class awards for quality. Finally, GM had the top three North American factories in terms of quality control. Some of GM's most popular vehicles are built in those plants.

Perhaps you could come up with something more witty than the superhero line? That one's bad enough, don't resort to the obvious desperation of the redneck comparison.

I await to see what kind of excuses will pop up now.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Shadow248

Gladly. Enjoy...

http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases...asp?ID=2005069

For those who don't care that much, the link will show you that Buick and Cadillac landed in the top 5 makes in initial quality. Ahead of Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and Subaru. In fact, every GM division did better than Subaru. GM vehicles also took 5 out of 18 best in class awards for quality. Finally, GM had the top three North American factories in terms of quality control. Some of GM's most popular vehicles are built in those plants.

Perhaps you could come up with something more witty than the superhero line? That one's bad enough, don't resort to the obvious desperation of the redneck comparison.

I await to see what kind of excuses will pop up now.

what? you got something against rednecks? hey man, we are people too ya know.

besides, mighty mouse's a kick ass superhero. i'll see if i can come up with something you'd approve.

wow, sweet link though. not that i don't like awards, but from the chart, i see that there are 4 japanese manufacturers that fall below the industry standard. i see that majority of domestics fall below the average.

The firm’s quality and satisfaction measurements are based on responses from millions of consumers annually.