new eclipse

[SVX-FF]

Originally Posted by drivemusicnow

Do any of you remember that long "fyr4ce" thread??? go re-read it.

No I do not remember.

1) Hp per lbs, this is the number one performance factor aside of gearing.

Ok that is fine but the SVX in not a plastic/fiberglass car like the Corvette or the Eclipse. True that some parts are fiberglass but the body is galvanized steel and very strong.

2) Hp*MPG well, fuel is a cost, so how much power do we make, per fuel we put in. simple efficiency calculation.

Who cares. More power = go faster & get there quicker

3) Hp per $. thats right, if it costs my company more money to make a less powerful engine, how smart is that?

Again who cares. We are not talking about corporate a-holes and there shallow pockets.

If i have a small block "ancient technology"

exactly my point.

domestic engine that makes 320 horsepower, only has to rev to 5500 rpm to make that power, and gets better gas mileage then the 2 liter 4 cyl that revs to 8K to make its 250 hp... which engine is better. More horsies, More efficient, Lower RPM (which means less strain on engine components) and guess what, the small block probably costs less to produce.

However, the 2 liter makes 125 hp per liter OMGWTFBBQ the small block (say chevy 350) 5.7 liter engine makes 61.4 hp per liter. still, the CLEARLY better engine is the smallblock 350

I don't understand why people don't understand this concept.

My point is that even the US's top sports car, Corvette, still lacks the tech that we have. if GM would spend some time and money in the development of a new motor insted of refreshing the old outdated POS pushrod engine then they might have a real winner. Yes the cost would go up and that is mostly due to the high cost of Union labor. The end product would be a better more reliable motor.

The fact that 13+ year old tech engine still puts out more hp per Liter, mechanically more sound and durible, more fuel efficent that there best power producing GM motor is what I am saying. Yes it cost more at first but look at the life long cost to maintain it. The EJ33 cost less over time.

hell, if hp/liter was so important, why aren't we all running model airplane engines (1.1 hp and about .0065 L) that make about 169 hp per liter?

no torque.

[Budfreak]

let's not forget the 80's when gm had a certain turbocharged 3.8 L in an ancient buick that would run door to door with a new sti either off the showroom floor or with half a day in the driveway tweekin a little.THE 80'S!!WOW!

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by budfreak1

let's not forget the 80's when gm had a certain turbocharged 3.8 L in an ancient buick that would run door to door with a new sti either off the showroom floor or with half a day in the driveway tweekin a little.THE 80'S!!WOW!

yeah, what the hell happened? the GNX was one of the few GM products i liked.

still, you're comparing a turboed 3.8L SIX cylinder to a turboed 2.5L FOUR cylinder.

[Budfreak]

Originally Posted by Landshark

yeah, what the hell happened? the GNX was one of the few GM products i liked.

still, you're comparing a turboed 3.8L SIX cylinder to a turboed 2.5L FOUR cylinder.

but the biggest difference is the torque. the gn and gnx had gobs of it! you'll just never get it out of a 2.5 4 banger. no replacement for displacement. and the total potential of having more cubes to work with. could you get 600 or more horses from a 2.5 liter?? good luck

[Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by budfreak1

could you get 600 or more horses from a 2.5 liter?? good luck

I actually know of a few guys here in Denver that are pushing over 600hp on a turbo'd 2 liter..

[drivemusicnow]

yeah... 600 hp from the 4g63 (1g and 2g and evo engine) isn't even a problem

some of the top drag racers that use 1g eclipses (by the way they run as fast as 8 second quartermiles) make over 1200 hp out of 2 liter turbocharged engines.
and yeah, this is what zepplin was talking about.

Ok that is fine but the SVX in not a plastic/fiberglass car like the Corvette or the Eclipse. True that some parts are fiberglass but the body is galvanized steel and very strong.

uh...yeah, you're point? the SVX is a heavy behemoth. thats why it isn't quick. so what exactly are you trying to argue? the corvette

Who cares. More power = go faster & get there quicker

exactly so the new corvette engine which makes more than twice the horsepower as our car, and gets the same, if not better, gas mileage. so how is this engine worse??

Again who cares. We are not talking about corporate a-holes and there shallow pockets.

Yes, actually we are. If i can make a supercharged v-6 for half the cost as a boxer6, that makes more horspower and more torque, why the hell wouldn't I? as well as being cheaper to make, i'd bet its just as reliable.

exactly my point.

well, that ancient technology works just as well, for less money. Until they make a 2.5 liter engine, that makes just as much horsepower, for the same amount of cost, as a chevy 350, it doesn't make sense to spend more money, on "technology" that doesn't really do to much.. prove that its cheaper and easier to maintain, and I'll say thats worth something, however i doubt that could ever be proved.

My point is that even the US's top sports car, Corvette, still lacks the tech that we have. if GM would spend some time and money in the development of a new motor insted of refreshing the old outdated POS pushrod engine then they might have a real winner. Yes the cost would go up and that is mostly due to the high cost of Union labor. The end product would be a better more reliable motor.

Lacks the "tech" we have??? I'm sorry, but thats a rediculous statement. to say in ANY way that the new LS7 (in the z06) or the LS2 is not a better engine than the eg33 is rediculous. I think the EG33 is a good motor, hell, a great motor for its time. but as you said "Who cares. More power = Go faster & get there quicker" well, which motor makes more power?

More sound and durable? BS... is the EG33 reliable? yes, but so is the LS2, and hell, so is the 3800. and its NOT more fuel efficient. the 400hp LS1 in the corvette gets better or at least equal to the SVX... try 18/28 for the vette (EPA) I personally get about 19 mpg in mostly highway driving in my car, however i'm sure others average more.


Just because it doesn't use doesn't use DOHC or variable valve timing, doesn't mean the engine isn't as good. Hell, it makes more power, i THINK (not sure about this one) it weighs less, makes more power, huge torque, uses the same amount of gas... what more do you want in an engine?? I can put a vtec sticker on it if you'd like, but as much as the honda bois think it helps, it doesn't.

[Budfreak]

cost is also one of the biggest points. what do you think those guys with over 600 hp. 2 L. engines spent to achieve those numbers? i had an 87 trans am gta with a 350 dropped in from an 87 vette and spent maybe a total of 2500 bucks on parts for it and at all times got between 18-25 mpg and had over 350 hp. according to desktop dyno.i ran in the high 12's and smoked the crap out of 98% of who i came across. as far as reliability, i being the bad boy i was, street raced every night for months straight and never had a knock,tap,ping or anything else out of my 350. the same holds true for the 3.8 L. engine. had an 87 bonneville that would just straight get it down the highway and i drove the crap out of that car something horrible.(first car, 16, you get the picture) it never left me stranded accept for an ign. control module and i was only half a block away when that happened.great mileage and even ran for months with 3 teeth missing off the timing gear! that's damn good engine to me.

[thundering02]

Drivemusicnow just baked a cake wanna try and take it back after the very logical post

[Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by budfreak1

cost is also one of the biggest points. what do you think those guys with over 600 hp. 2 L. engines spent to achieve those numbers?

I know for a fact that 2 guys have achieved those numbers with less than a $10,000 investment (including cost of the car). One of those cars is a daily driver that weighs in under 2500 lbs with AWD.

[Budfreak]

Originally Posted by Zeppelin

I know for a fact that 2 guys have achieved those numbers with less than a $10,000 investment (including cost of the car). One of those cars is a daily driver that weighs in under 2500 lbs with AWD.

ok , so what was already done to the cars when they bought them cause i ain't believing in a 2L. that will do all that without being ripped apart for some internal work unless you want it to eat itself the first or second time you put it under boost and that cost moolah! plus the tranny and diff to handle all that. yeah right.

[Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by budfreak1

ok , so what was already done to the cars when they bought them cause i ain't believing in a 2L. that will do all that without being ripped apart for some internal work unless you want it to eat itself the first or second time you put it under boost and that cost moolah! plus the tranny and diff to handle all that. yeah right.

Who said no internal work was done? Stock 6 bolt 4G63 bottom ends are good for 400-450 hp. With some work 600hp is easy. The transmissions are a weak link, but they can be rebuilt by Shep racing for about $1k and will handle ungodly amounts of power.

Since you can get a 1G AWD DSM for as little as $500, how do you not see this as possible? Maybe you should do a little research on www.dsmtuners.com or check out the local DSM board here in Denver at www.rmdsm.org and you'll see some guys who know their stuff and are all about cheap reliable power.

[Budfreak]

Originally Posted by Zeppelin

Who said no internal work was done? Stock 6 bolt 4G63 bottom ends are good for 400-450 hp. With some work 600hp is easy. The transmissions are a weak link, but they can be rebuilt by Shep racing for about $1k and will handle ungodly amounts of power.

Since you can get a 1G AWD DSM for as little as $500, how do you not see this as possible? Maybe you should do a little research on www.dsmtuners.com or check out the local DSM board here in Denver at www.rmdsm.org and you'll see some guys who know their stuff and are all about cheap reliable power.

ok but let's think about what i could do with a firebird for 10 grand. i could get the car for 1,500 for one with a 350 already in it then spend about 5,000 on engine tranny and rear and spend the rest on chassis and brake improvement and end of with one bad mutha! i could pull over .9 g's in handling easy and have a 383 possibly with a shot of nos that would have well over 600 on the gas.you can get lucky and find a supercharger laying around cheap too cause theres plenty of them out there and theres well over 600 horse too. this is one of those arguments no one will ever win. we like what we like.

[Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by budfreak1

ok but let's think about what i could do with a firebird for 10 grand. i could get the car for 1,500 for one with a 350 already in it then spend about 5,000 on engine tranny and rear and spend the rest on chassis and brake improvement and end of with one bad mutha! i could pull over .9 g's in handling easy and have a 383 possibly with a shot of nos that would have well over 600 on the gas.you can get lucky and find a supercharger laying around cheap too cause theres plenty of them out there and theres well over 600 horse too. this is one of those arguments no one will ever win. we like what we like.

I never said that DSM's and the 4G63 was the best thing out there. I'm just saying that you can make good power out of a turbocharged 2 liter for a decent amount of money. One of my favorite sleeper cars is the Mitsubishi Galant VR4, which has the 4G63 and AWD. Nothing like the looks on the faces of Honda drivers that just got spanked by a 4 door grocery getter!

[SVX-FF]

First let me say that I am not trying to get Greg (drivemusicnow) upset or start a fight. If I have then I am sorry.

My point is that the Americian V style engine is inferior to the Boxer type.

Yes the Corvette makes 400hp on a V-8 that weight 3179 lbs and get 18/26 mpg turning 6000rpm. The Z06 is America's premiere sports car.

Now let look at the Boxer premiere sports car non turbo

The Porshe GT3 is a 3.8L Boxer 6. It makes 380hp, weight is 3043lbs and get 15/23mpg and 7400rpm. Linkie

Take it for what it is worth. In my opnion, I love the musle car stuff, but the boxer motor is much better then and now stock with no upgrades.

Steve

[Earthworm]

Nice comparison except I'm sure torque from the Porsche is nowhere near that of the Corvette. (doesn't make we want the Porsche any less though)