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  #166  
Old 03-30-2008, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svxistentialist View Post
Also noticeable, at least as I see it, is the fact that this increase in torque was delivered in conjunction with a leaner fuel mix.
Forgive me for being picky, but as I read it, the mix looks richer than stock below 5500 rpm. A lower AFR means less air more fuel.
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  #167  
Old 03-30-2008, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b3lha View Post
Forgive me for being picky, but as I read it, the mix looks richer than stock below 5500 rpm. A lower AFR means less air more fuel.
Can't accuse you of being picky when you are being correct, Phil.

Apologies, gaffe corrected.

Joe
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  #168  
Old 03-30-2008, 01:29 PM
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What we need here is 2 ecu's, one with the stage one after it has learned, and one stock. Dynoed on the same day.

-Patrick
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  #169  
Old 03-31-2008, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVXRide View Post
Chris,
Well, based on the 1v5 thread, I was almost ready to say the 1v5 was good for 8 whp. Then you had to go and post up all your "stock" ECU pulls here. From a purely statistical basis, you could make a case that the 1v5 chip did nothing (I'm not saying you should make this case, only that you could). Guess you'll have to start looking for those "student discount" dyno runs now that the chip has had a while to "learn"
-Bill
No Dyno Puls for a few months... Summer session is coming up and that means I need to $hit about $4,000 to pay for college over the summer ... Hopefully at the end of summer I'll have the finances in order to do another Dyno Pull...

Quote:
Originally Posted by b3lha View Post
Did you disconnect the battery at any point before the stock runs to reset the ECU, or was it using learned values for those runs?
Disconnected the Battery all through the ECU swap... Reconnected the battery after the ECU was back in the car and did the first Stage 1.v5 run about 5 minutes after with the ECU still dangling (didn't have the time to crawl under the dash and put it back in there while I was on the dyno and 15 other cars were waiting to get on there...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomake Wan View Post
The torque curve on the 1v5 graphs seems to be a lot smoother than the stock ECU runs, too... which seems to attest to the "power" that one feels after using the chip for a while.

Interesting was that I looked for the "hesitation" I used to feel around 3k RPMs and couldn't seem to find it based on the graphs there. Did your car on the stock ECU ever feel like there was a slight loss of power around 3k? Like, it would delay a little there before revving higher?

Anyway, good to see graphs finally posted. Too bad the whole "re-learn" thing would invalidate the data (different day, weather, dyno conditions, etc etc).
Nope, I never really had a hesitation... The performance was kinda random at times, but only barely noticeable... THe only one that could tell that something was alittle different when I'd get on it with the stock ECU was me, but that's because I've owned my baby for 7 years and know almost everything about her

Quote:
Originally Posted by nextse7en View Post
What we need here is 2 ecu's, one with the stage one after it has learned, and one stock. Dynoed on the same day.

-Patrick
I'll volunteer to go back to the same Dyno and swap out ECU's again... I'll need a stock, functioning 1995 ECU though (and no I don't have the $$$ to buy one)... I'd only if there isn't complaining about the weather conditions... Wether conditions will NEVER again be exactly as they were that day. It is something that is just going to have to be dismissed as an uncontrollable variable... I will say however, that National Speed's Dyno is located inside an air-conditioned and ventilated workshop. So for the most part the weather conditions have a minimal impact on the runs... The day I did it however they left the shop door open so that all of the 30+ people that were there for the meet could get pictures and whatnot...

However since we can pretty much rule out weather as a factor at the moment (atleast till it's summer in Wilmington, NC), Then my stock ECU runs should be a good basic place to start... The reason we did 4 pulls is because the car kept making power, slightly more each time...

I will say that I think the chip effects fuel economy alittle (in the performance map)... I just got back from an Autocross in Wilmington a few hours ago and only managed 21 mpg down there and halfway back... That's a few less than what I would normally get... However, I don't know if that was a great test since I spent most of the time driving down to wilmington behind a Corvette Z06 and another car that were doing 90-95 the whole way down... We made record time, but I could have sworn that every time I looked down at my fuel gauge, it was slowly creeping down towards the big "E"... I am heading to Charlotte to see my grandparents next weekend and that trip will be done at a much more conservative pace (70-ish mph)... Normally with a full tank and driving at about 70mph I can get about 25mpg... Just filled up on my way back to Raleigh tonight so the only miles on this tank so far are highway miles...

If I missed anything just let me know

~ Chris
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  #170  
Old 03-31-2008, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenMarineSVX View Post



I will say that I think the chip effects fuel economy alittle (in the performance map)... I just got back from an Autocross in Wilmington a few hours ago and only managed 21 mpg down there and halfway back... That's a few less than what I would normally get...

If I missed anything just let me know

~ Chris
We were actually saying above the new chip runs richer, i.e. uses more fuel, above 3000 rpm which is where you would have been running the engine on your trip.

You should be back to stock consumption at 2500 rpm, back to normal.

Joe
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  #171  
Old 03-31-2008, 08:25 AM
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There is a reason you should have disconnected the battery before the stock runs... this would have cleared the "learned" data and allowed you to do a stock map to modified map comparison.

Tom
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  #172  
Old 03-31-2008, 09:08 AM
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Learning mode function on ECU

On the "learning mode" function of the ECU, what effect does the power light "mod" (connecting a switch to ground a pin on the ecu to engage the power map) have on the "learning" process?
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  #173  
Old 03-31-2008, 09:25 AM
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None, power mode merely changes the shift patterns for the transmission, it has no effect on the ECU

Tom
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  #174  
Old 03-31-2008, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by processengr View Post
On the "learning mode" function of the ECU, what effect does the power light "mod" (connecting a switch to ground a pin on the ecu to engage the power map) have on the "learning" process?
That's a very good question Gordon and I don't know the answer or if the answer is available from any of the Subaru manuals we have. I'll hazard a guess.

The "learning" mode should probably be thought of as an automatic adjustment mode from the fuelling system. The software analyses data from the input sensors, and based on load and detonation and O2 information etc it adjusts to an optimal fuel mix based on the information it "sees".

So if you have been using low grade fuel, and the ECU has adjusted to using that, and you then fill up with high octane fuel, the ECU has to "learn" as you drive that it is now safer to load the engine more without risking detonation. Such an adjustment function will cause the timing to be changed in this instance.

These adjustments will continue to be assessed and reacted to, regardless of whether the gearbox is in normal mode or in power mode.

My guess would be that the ECU would learn to retard the ignition less while the car was running full-time power mode as the gearbox would tend to rev the engine higher in each gear, which is a lower load situation in regards to detonation.

Basically it would be doing the same job in either mode, just compensating for the different circumstances.

Joe
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  #175  
Old 03-31-2008, 10:17 AM
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So, we've established that GreenMarine's results, comparing a learned stock ECU with an virgin stage1, show that the stage1 offers a slight improvement.

Does anybody have any idea how much effect the learning could have? Are we talking 1-2hp or 10-20?

The power mode will not make a difference to the ECU learning, but the california mode might.
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Last edited by b3lha; 03-31-2008 at 10:20 AM.
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  #176  
Old 03-31-2008, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b3lha View Post
So, we've established that GreenMarine's results, comparing a learned stock ECU with an virgin stage1, show that the stage1 offers a slight improvement.

Does anybody have any idea how much effect the learning could have? Are we talking 1-2hp or 10-20?

The power mode will not make a difference to the ECU learning, but the california mode might.
Phil,
I'm going to go on record as supporting ~5 hp after "learning"
-Bill
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  #177  
Old 03-31-2008, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVXRide View Post
Phil,
I'm going to go on record as supporting ~5 hp after "learning"
-Bill
Yeah, that sounds like a fair estimate... I mean the power is definitely there. You can feel the difference... I'm just not sure how much more it is. Not too much, but I'd say 5 - 10whp or 5 - 10 wtq overall increase...

~ Chris
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  #178  
Old 03-31-2008, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenMarineSVX View Post
Yeah, that sounds like a fair estimate... I mean the power is definitely there. You can feel the difference... I'm just not sure how much more it is. Not too much, but I'd say 5 - 10whp or 5 - 10 wtq overall increase...

~ Chris
Chris, I hope it does show 5 hp improvement, but like Bill, I'm going to go on record with a guess also, different from Bill's.

My estimate is you will only realise one or two hp at the most. However you will benefit from a good torque improvement of 5-8 lbs from 4k to 5k.

I'm basing this on the fact that the principal fuelling change has been to richen up 3k to 5k.

You are in fact getting the change/improvement where it is most useful on the road, punch for overtaking.

Joe
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  #179  
Old 03-31-2008, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svxistentialist View Post
Chris, I hope it does show 5 hp improvement, but like Bill, I'm going to go on record with a guess also, different from Bill's.

My estimate is you will only realise one or two hp at the most. However you will benefit from a good torque improvement of 5-8 lbs from 4k to 5k.

I'm basing this on the fact that the principal fuelling change has been to richen up 3k to 5k.

You are in fact getting the change/improvement where it is most useful on the road, punch for overtaking.

Joe
You know what we should do... When I can finally get back down to the Dyno and do 3 more pulls (whenever they do another Dyno day with the Wilmington Subaru guys and get a discount rate), we should start a pot for bets to see who can guess the closest gains ... Maybe a new thread with a poll or something... Not sure when the new dyno day will be but I'll be sure to let everyone know so they can start the thread

~ Chris
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