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  #1  
Old 03-05-2012, 09:08 AM
Austin Austin is offline
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4EAT failure?

'96 LSi, no mods, owned since 24 September 2010.

Problem: 4EAT not shifting right; won't "kick down" properly

Symptoms: 4EAT revs SUPER high (4500-5500) for extended periods when just trying to mildly accelerate from cruising speed (i.e., in 4th gear going 45mph and normally accelerating up to 55mph).

Checked/tested: Haven't checked too much - I don't own an OBD II tool, I'm not the handiest or most knowledgeable guy under the hood.

• I've tried shifting manually to see if that helps - no help
• I've tried pushing in the "manual" button to see if it will "kick in" to the proper gear - no help
• I've checked the ATF level - I THINK it's okay, but I can't tell as the dipstick just comes up with a smear of fluid covering the whole range of marks, no matter how I wipe and reinsert it.
• ATF is a nice light pink - not burned, doesn't smell odd
• no CEL

Now, one CRUCIAL thing is that I DID have a hose going to the tranny cooler that was leaking (hose clamp wasn't tight), but I have another bad (but completely unrelated) leak leaving a puddle in the same spot on my driveway, so I didn't realize the tranny was leaking. It's possible that I still need more fluid, but I can't tell because the dipstick isn't clearly indicating anything (see above). I added two quarts after tightening the hose clamp (at that time the dipstick was basically DRY ), and after that it seemed to be reading above the "normal" range (again, not real sure though).

It's also possible I may have over-filled the thing (again see dipstick reading problem). I read this "elsewhere on the internet":

Quote:
The SVX 4EAT uses Dextron lll fluid. IMHO, More important than the brand is the condition of the fluid. Unless you are racing, buy the least expensive, and drain and refill every oil change(3-5k). You will drain about 5 qts. each time. Do not overfill or you will destroy transmission. Your fluid will always be in good shape, plus you will be removing contamination...
I've thought about draining the tranny and filling it with the full capacity (which is a number I'm not sure of). Granted, it's a helluva lot cheaper than a new transmission, but it's still expensive with oil prices nowadays (and I have limited funds). Given that the tranny's **possibly** overfilled, that might be the best thing anyway. $40 investment in **maybe** solving my problem? But would overfilling it cause the 4EAT to act this way?
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'97 LSi Ebony - daily driver - mostly just needs body work [couple o' rust holes, door dings, and peeling clear (of course)]

'96 LSi, Laguna Blue (retired - soon going to a new home)
'89 XT6 5 speed (Gone but not forgotten)
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  #2  
Old 03-05-2012, 09:29 AM
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Huskymaniac Huskymaniac is offline
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Re: 4EAT failure?

Are you checking the dipstick with the engine running? Is the fluid warm or cold? If cold, did you cycle through all of the gears before checking the level?

The best trick I have found is to rmove the stick, wipe clean, insert stick, pull stick out far enough to be able to rotate it, rotate 180 degrees, insert fully again, pull out and read. It really is a PITA though! Good luck!
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1996 Polo Green Subaru SVX LSi, 168,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 5W50 FS (3qt) and 5W30 High Mileage (4qt) Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, Centric Rotors, Power Stop Evolution Carbon Fiber Ceramic Brake Pads
2005 Gray Acura RL, 165,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF with Lubegard Platinum Protectant, Mobil 1 5W20 High Mileage Extended Performance Oil
2009 Red Toyota Venza, 123,XXX, Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage Oil
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  #3  
Old 03-05-2012, 09:51 AM
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Sean486 Sean486 is offline
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Re: 4EAT failure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskymaniac View Post
Are you checking the dipstick with the engine running? Is the fluid warm or cold? If cold, did you cycle through all of the gears before checking the level?

The best trick I have found is to rmove the stick, wipe clean, insert stick, pull stick out far enough to be able to rotate it, rotate 180 degrees, insert fully again, pull out and read. It really is a PITA though! Good luck!
How should you cycle through the gears, is there an order? Do you just do 123 or do you also need to hit D R N? Should I push the dip still all the way in past the o ring or is right up to the o ring ok. It is hard to pull it out once the o ring presses in.
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  #4  
Old 03-05-2012, 09:58 AM
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Re: 4EAT failure?

The dipstick has to be fully seated to check the level. Unless you can measure the distance difference when you push it to the Oring and then compensate...

Next time, when you first pull the dipstick to wipe it clean, apply the fluid that you wipe off to the Oring and the top of the dipstick where it goes into the tube.
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  #5  
Old 03-05-2012, 11:09 AM
Austin Austin is offline
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Re: 4EAT failure?

I'm checking the tranny fluid about half an hour of driving it for a while. My reason for this is I know not to check it cold, but when it's "fresh hot" I'm guessing there's a substantial amount of ATF still in the filler tube and running down the dipstick. If I wait a half an hour I figure most of the ATF has slipped down the walls of the filler tube, but the fluid's still at "hot" levels within the tranny.

Sean, in my case, I'm able to get the dipstick fully seated with no problems at all, it's a snug fit when seated, but not hard to pull out... pretty much as one would expect a "normal" such item to fit/seat.

My process of shifting is basically, "put it in Drive and don't mess with it", but when I'm shifting manually, on the odd occasion that I'm testing or whatever, I go 1, 2, 3, 4 (with the "Manual" mode/button engaged). Otherwise I basically drive it as one would normally drive an automatic.

That being said, however,...

...for almost as long as I've owned it the car has had this really annoying habit of surging a couple of hundred RPM once I've hit 4th gear. Even using cruise control here in FL on our flat highways - well, flat EVERYTHING. (The surging is, **I believe**, unrelated to the transmission and rather a TPS or air/fuel signal problem.) However, up until this recent "catastrophic" failure, if I put the car in "Manual" mode, it won't surge and I can use cruise control just fine. Now, with this really bad issue I'm having the "manual" button makes no difference at all. But for the record, I have driven it with the "manual" button pushed in for many months, but like I say, I generally wait until I'm in 4th gear and ready to engage my cruise control.

EDIT: Also, I have the car in FWD mode because I began experiencing some thumping noises in my rear diff. Putting it in FWD totally "fixed" that. I've been driving it that way for many months now, no issues as near as I can tell from that but I thought I'd mention it.

EDIT #2: I totally misread the question about the cycling of gears - I thought it was a question about how I shifted when driving manually. Now I see that it was a question about how to cycle through the gears to check the ATF level when the tranny's cold. Dopey me!
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__________
'97 LSi Ebony - daily driver - mostly just needs body work [couple o' rust holes, door dings, and peeling clear (of course)]

'96 LSi, Laguna Blue (retired - soon going to a new home)
'89 XT6 5 speed (Gone but not forgotten)

Last edited by Austin; 03-05-2012 at 11:20 AM.
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  #6  
Old 03-05-2012, 11:11 AM
92 SVX 92 SVX is offline
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Re: 4EAT failure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin View Post
'96 LSi, no mods, owned since 24 September 2010.

Problem: 4EAT not shifting right; won't "kick down" properly

Symptoms: 4EAT revs SUPER high (4500-5500) for extended periods when just trying to mildly accelerate from cruising speed (i.e., in 4th gear going 45mph and normally accelerating up to 55mph).

Checked/tested: Haven't checked too much - I don't own an OBD II tool, I'm not the handiest or most knowledgeable guy under the hood.

• I've tried shifting manually to see if that helps - no help
• I've tried pushing in the "manual" button to see if it will "kick in" to the proper gear - no help
• I've checked the ATF level - I THINK it's okay, but I can't tell as the dipstick just comes up with a smear of fluid covering the whole range of marks, no matter how I wipe and reinsert it.
• ATF is a nice light pink - not burned, doesn't smell odd
• no CEL

Now, one CRUCIAL thing is that I DID have a hose going to the tranny cooler that was leaking (hose clamp wasn't tight), but I have another bad (but completely unrelated) leak leaving a puddle in the same spot on my driveway, so I didn't realize the tranny was leaking. It's possible that I still need more fluid, but I can't tell because the dipstick isn't clearly indicating anything (see above). I added two quarts after tightening the hose clamp (at that time the dipstick was basically DRY ), and after that it seemed to be reading above the "normal" range (again, not real sure though).

It's also possible I may have over-filled the thing (again see dipstick reading problem). I read this "elsewhere on the internet":



I've thought about draining the tranny and filling it with the full capacity (which is a number I'm not sure of). Granted, it's a helluva lot cheaper than a new transmission, but it's still expensive with oil prices nowadays (and I have limited funds). Given that the tranny's **possibly** overfilled, that might be the best thing anyway. $40 investment in **maybe** solving my problem? But would overfilling it cause the 4EAT to act this way?
I too am in jax, if you would like to meet somewhere I will see if I can help you read that dipstick, I also have a program on my laptop that may read your obdII codes. though I can not be sure of that as mine is a 92 and wont read.
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  #7  
Old 03-05-2012, 11:29 AM
Austin Austin is offline
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Re: 4EAT failure?

Thanks - I might consider it at some point. Right now, I think I'm evaluating whether or not to even keep the car. It's been a bit of a pain. As much as I love the SVX in general, and I've wanted one since 1990 when I saw the concept car in Popular Mechanics. I even almost bought one new in '98 (an unsold mica black LSi).

Unfortunately, as much as I love the SVX, I think I might be better off with a second XT6. I'd love to have an SVX in my "stable" of Subarus, but currently the position this car fills is that of my daily driver. My XT6 is sitting un-driven (although I think I'm about to re-tag it and let the SVX sit) and is "promised" to my 16 year old daughter. My Tribeca is really my wife's car.

This isn't just a rant or an emotional response to my current problem, it's a rational evaluation of where I stand economically and practically with this vehicle. My XT6 is far less problematic and much easier to work on when I DO have issues. Don't get me wrong - I really really really wish I could keep the SVX, but right now the financial future looks pretty bleak with this thing.

It has a couple of other major problems that I need to get fixed rather just living with them... one of which is a brake line leak that causes me to go through about a pint of brake fluid a week (even driving it touching the brakes as absolutely little as possible, e.g., sitting in neutral at stoplights with my foot off the brake, etc.).

Sorry - got off topic there.
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'97 LSi Ebony - daily driver - mostly just needs body work [couple o' rust holes, door dings, and peeling clear (of course)]

'96 LSi, Laguna Blue (retired - soon going to a new home)
'89 XT6 5 speed (Gone but not forgotten)
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  #8  
Old 03-05-2012, 11:36 AM
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Hocrest Hocrest is offline
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Re: 4EAT failure?

Austin, is it running when you check it?
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:46 AM
Austin Austin is offline
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Re: 4EAT failure?

No. Is the SVX supposed to be running when you check it? Or is that something that's different between checking the oil and checking the tranny fluid? If so, I never knew that. Like I said, and as you're VERY WELL AWARE , I'm not the most knowledgeable guy under the hood. This could be a matter of me just being ignorant.
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'97 LSi Ebony - daily driver - mostly just needs body work [couple o' rust holes, door dings, and peeling clear (of course)]

'96 LSi, Laguna Blue (retired - soon going to a new home)
'89 XT6 5 speed (Gone but not forgotten)
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  #10  
Old 03-05-2012, 11:55 AM
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Re: 4EAT failure?

Yeah, check the level with it running in P or N and let us know what you find.
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  #11  
Old 03-05-2012, 12:00 PM
92 SVX 92 SVX is offline
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Re: 4EAT failure?

also check after driving for a few minutes to circulate the fluid.
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:03 PM
92 SVX 92 SVX is offline
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Re: 4EAT failure?

I would be more then willing to help you fix the issues on your car, brake leaking is a very dangerous problem and generally speaking isnt too difficult to fix. If you want I can look over the car and fix things like that. I do not know what you own for tools, I have most needed for small jobs and even a few bigger jobs. I would not even think of charging you, You buy parts that may be needed that is all.
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:13 PM
Austin Austin is offline
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Re: 4EAT failure?

Oh man, I feel so dumb.



Now that I work from home it was easy to check. I just drove it around the neighborhood for 5 min to make sure it's warm (last ran 6 hours ago) and checked it while running.

I feel both bad and good:

It is REALLY low!!! - so I feel bad that I've been driving it like that (ignorant of the proper way to check the tranny dipstick ), and I feel good that this is probably the whole issue and it should be easily fixed (I hope) with a couple o' quarts of Dextron III.

Thanks EVERYONE!!!!! And I'll keep you posted. I have to go pick up my daughter soon so I'll take her w/ me to the store to get some ATF.
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__________
'97 LSi Ebony - daily driver - mostly just needs body work [couple o' rust holes, door dings, and peeling clear (of course)]

'96 LSi, Laguna Blue (retired - soon going to a new home)
'89 XT6 5 speed (Gone but not forgotten)

Last edited by Austin; 03-10-2012 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:17 PM
Austin Austin is offline
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Re: 4EAT failure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 92 SVX View Post
I would be more then willing to help you fix the issues on your car, brake leaking is a very dangerous problem and generally speaking isnt too difficult to fix. If you want I can look over the car and fix things like that. I do not know what you own for tools, I have most needed for small jobs and even a few bigger jobs. I would not even think of charging you, You buy parts that may be needed that is all.

Thanks, now that it SEEMS like my issue may just be low ATF level (so embarrassed), I might just meet up w/ you to do that. I've got sockets, and most general hand tools (incl. open end wrenches, breaker bars, ball joint pickle forks, screwdrivers, non-fancy torque wrench, etc.) and ramps, towels and hand cleaner. I can't find where the brake lines are leaking. But maybe I'll PM you about getting together on it. If you can just help me narrow down where it's leaking I can probably address it but I wouldn't mind a helping hand if it's something I'm unfamiliar with.

THANKS!
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'97 LSi Ebony - daily driver - mostly just needs body work [couple o' rust holes, door dings, and peeling clear (of course)]

'96 LSi, Laguna Blue (retired - soon going to a new home)
'89 XT6 5 speed (Gone but not forgotten)
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  #15  
Old 03-05-2012, 01:35 PM
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Re: 4EAT failure?

Get that thing filled, but not overfilled. Add a quart at a time, leave the tube clear out for a few minutes check, then add more.
It takes a quart to go from L to F.
If it's off the stick, then add two or three on the first check.

And Austin please take "92" up on his offer to help find the brake leak. And remember in the meantime that the handbrake uses no fluid

And if the two of you can't find the brake problem, Nate is heading down to Florida soon...
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