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  #46  
Old 11-09-2007, 08:27 PM
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And an update.

Being a perfectionist, I won't be satisfied until I flog the thing and it doesn't overheat. And the one thing that would put the most strain on the engine would be going up a high grade in a low gear for ~10 minutes. So I took the SVX to a road like that nearby and went for it.

Ran great, until about halfway up. Then the temps started climbing again, a little more than halfway between 50% and redzone. So I pulled off to the side, let it run, and popped the hood. With the cell phone I could tell that there was again coolant on the driver's side fender, so I took out my digital camera and just snapped as many photos as I could of the entire engine bay. Here you go, photo evidence.















After taking the pictures, I closed the hood, turned back around, and literally coasted the entire way down the hill, without touching the gas once. Temps held at about 55%. But as soon as the grade ended and I had to accelerate from a stop, the temps rose steadily again with even the lightest of throttle application. I was struggling to keep up with traffic (as I didn't want to overheat, yet the limit was 45 and I was doing about 30)... and then suddenly everything went back to normal. No warning, nothing. Just bam, temp gauge back in operating range, and no problems. The entire drive home on the freeway was uneventful and the gauge never moved.

Grr.
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  #47  
Old 11-10-2007, 09:56 AM
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What were your RPM's while running up the hill?

I didn't look at all the pictures, (I'm at Melis's, she has slow dialup...)

The reason it continued to run warm is because after losing the coolant it had a good sized air bubble in there after running it at some faster speeds, the water pump pulled the bubble through.

Again, I hate to tell you this, but your's is acting exactly like mine did

Go to Napa and get a small bottle of UV dye for your coolant. Then drive it around and use a blacklight to look for traces of the die. Get the car up on ramps and look underneath also.

Also, as your driving around, keep a couple gallons of water in the trunk and make sure the reservoir stays full.
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  #48  
Old 11-10-2007, 10:15 AM
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Yeah, what Dave said
HG, HG, HG.....sorry.
-Bill (in exactly the same situation)
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  #49  
Old 11-10-2007, 12:10 PM
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Thanks on the UV dye, I'll have to pick some up. Also have to find a shop that can pressure test the cooling system. Still don't know one around here.

Updates updates...

Ran two more block tests this morning, both came up negative. I also noticed that the reservoir was mysteriously empty. It had been overfull the night before. I put a little coolant in it (bottom line).

Went out to a long stretch of road (no real severe grade) and then ran the car in '2' the whole way. After a while, sure enough, the car started to heat up. I turned back around and pulled off, letting the car idle, and popped the hood. The fans were on full bore, and the reservoir was even more full than it had been the night before. It was also bubbling from where the hose connects to it. But it didn't overflow, because the whole fender area was bone dry still. The temp gauge was also dancing on the edge of red... not good.

So I got in, gave it a little gas, and turned the heater on to full. The temp gauge fell rather quickly back to normal. That was kinda weird. So I got back on the road and drove back towards home in '2'. Then on a whim, made a U-turn and went back. Then drove back towards home again. This was a longer drive than the one where it overheated, and was under the same conditions. But the gauge didn't budge.

I've no clue. So UV dye and a pressure test.
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  #50  
Old 11-10-2007, 03:59 PM
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I gotta say, headgasket. Thats all

Tom
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  #51  
Old 11-22-2007, 06:20 PM
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I've decided to give this engine one last chance before swapping it. My dad and I talked it over while looking at the car and feeling it run, and he can't believe headgasket. So he told me to ask you guys for a little help, since he and I don't know enough about the car.

Does anyone have a diagram of the entire cooling system? All hoses, bypasses, heater core, radiator, water pump... all components together. Kinda like the vacuum hose diagram on the hood, only for the whole cooling system. If I had that I could trace through it and test/replace parts as I go.

Anyone have such a diagram, or could create one? I'd much appreciate it.
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  #52  
Old 11-22-2007, 07:10 PM
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I gotta add one more head gasket opinion.

You're losing coolant, and getting air pockets in the engine. Neither of these is a good thing. The localized hot spots will do some REAL damage.

Have you checked for exhaust gases in the coolant? TRUST ME your nose can find them in the overflow bottle. My Legacy has bown HG's I can literally smell exhaust in the coolant bottle.
Idle the car up to temperature, at least until the fans come on, then look in the overflow. If you see bubbles coming from the overflow hose....I'm sorry, but it's HG's. If you sniff the air in the overflow and it smells like exhaust, that's your confirmation.

The Lego gave NO symptoms except getting hot when you turned off the hwy. No oil in the water, or water in the oil. The guage spiked 3 times. Never to the red zone, but to 3/4 guage.

I hate delivering bad news, but that's what it sounds like & why.
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  #53  
Old 11-22-2007, 07:35 PM
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Before answering your questions, I just want to emphasize that right now, I'm just looking for a diagram of the cooling system. So that no one just jumps on the "headgasket lol" bandwagon and decides not to give me one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyhorse View Post
You're losing coolant, and getting air pockets in the engine. Neither of these is a good thing. The localized hot spots will do some REAL damage.
Lost coolant is from overflow. I've checked for external leaks and there aren't any; so it's just going into the overflow and spilling out. But I agree, running hot is not good, and the longer it takes to figure out, the more damage it'll do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyhorse View Post
Have you checked for exhaust gases in the coolant? TRUST ME your nose can find them in the overflow bottle. My Legacy has bown HG's I can literally smell exhaust in the coolant bottle.
Idle the car up to temperature, at least until the fans come on, then look in the overflow. If you see bubbles coming from the overflow hose....I'm sorry, but it's HG's. If you sniff the air in the overflow and it smells like exhaust, that's your confirmation.
I've done a block test (block tester in radiator neck) four times with not a single positive result. To make sure my tester worked I pumped it twice near the exhaust pipes and it turned yellow as it should. Four times though and no positive. I've also smelled the overflow and it only smells like coolant, even when overheating. It only overheats if I push the car hard for an extended period of time. The car does not exhibit any odd behavior at idle or under normal driving conditions. At idle the coolant simply flows. It doesn't bubble into the overflow. But while in an overheat condition and it is bubbling into the overflow, it just smells like coolant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyhorse View Post
The Lego gave NO symptoms except getting hot when you turned off the hwy. No oil in the water, or water in the oil. The guage spiked 3 times. Never to the red zone, but to 3/4 guage.

I hate delivering bad news, but that's what it sounds like & why.
I was told by a Subaru tuner nearby that he doesn't really see any water/oil transactions from blown headgaskets in the Subies he works on. It'll be exhaust/water or water/exhaust but not oil.

And again, highway driving and traffic and stuff doesn't cause any problems. Only running the car hard (shifter in '2' for > 5 minutes, etc) causes the problem to appear.

Thanks though.
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  #54  
Old 11-22-2007, 08:24 PM
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Okay, let's try this...

The circuit is fairly basic, but unlike what you might be used to seeing on a U.S. engine (Ford, GM, etc.). Radiator is fairly normal - hose at the top and bottom. The thermostat is actually where the bottom hose attaches to the block. The waterpump is behind the center black plastic cover on the front of the engine. It is driven by its smooth cylinder that comes in contact with the timing belt. The waterpump has two small hoses that come off of it that allow for circulation of coolant in the block until the thermostat opens. The block itself does not have internal coolant passages that run from side to side. Instead, there is an aluminum manifold that runs under the intake manifold that connects the two sides of the block. The heater hoses run off of this manifold (if memory serves me right). That about sums it up.
This all said, I'm on the side of your engine manifesting all the typical signs of a bad head gasket. The momentary temp gauge spikes are driven by hot air pockets passing by the temperature sensor. If you check another current thread (think it's titled "time to pull the engine" started by Mertz (?)) you'll see from the pics he's posted that it doesn't much of a passage way from the water jacket across the gasket sealing surface to the cylinder to cause the problem. The only thing I don't recall you checking is to see if the water manifold under the intake is leaking. It has o-rings that serve to seal it at either end.
Best of luck.
-Bill
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  #55  
Old 11-22-2007, 08:33 PM
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I did check for leaks there but didn't see anything obvious. It is one part I haven't taken apart, though, so I'll probably replace the gaskets there along with the hoses going from the water pump bypass.
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  #56  
Old 11-22-2007, 09:52 PM
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ok when you replaced the thermostat did you check to see if the teeth on the water pump are still in good shape???... it sounds like when the mech-a-nic that banged in that other thermostat might have damaged the blades enough to that under normal driving conditions it still provides enough flow.... until you over load the engine by driving the car in 2nd gear... just a thought before you replace the engine... check it by popping off the thermostat and bump starting the car with the ignition or fuel system disabled
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  #57  
Old 11-22-2007, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suby Fan View Post
ok when you replaced the thermostat did you check to see if the teeth on the water pump are still in good shape???... it sounds like when the mech-a-nic that banged in that other thermostat might have damaged the blades enough to that under normal driving conditions it still provides enough flow.... until you over load the engine by driving the car in 2nd gear... just a thought before you replace the engine... check it by popping off the thermostat and bump starting the car with the ignition or fuel system disabled
Could you walk me through this one? What's an easy way to start the car with the fuel/ignition disabled? Also, when I had the thermostat out, I didn't really see anything from the hole where it went. Where should I be looking to see these "teeth"? A picture would help, heh.

Thanks.
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  #58  
Old 11-23-2007, 08:16 AM
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I guess it's probably not worth saying again but............

you really need to stop screwing around with this and go back and do the orderly process i described a couple months ago.
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  #59  
Old 11-23-2007, 08:36 AM
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OK, my bad for just "skimming" the posts. Please disregard my earlier post.

Have you had a timing light on the car? I'm not entirely sure that these engines can get out of time, from an ignition standpoint. I do know that both an advanced timing issue, along with a lean fuel issue can cause overheating under heavy loads. Combine these two, and you can have a chronic overheating problem. I've run my 2300 Ford advanced & lean for a long time, it runs a nice neat 225deg. It also is an all cast iron engine, so it can stand the heat. It adds a few HP, but not any huge leaps. You can feel it in the "butt dyno" though.
An emissions sniffer test will show a lean condition. A timing light will show any anomolies in that. I'm assuming that the only way to get these engines "out of time" is to slip the T-Belt.

Just the random ramblings of a random mind.
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  #60  
Old 11-23-2007, 01:17 PM
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an easy way to disable the fuel ignition system is to pull the fuel pump relay you will need a flash light to see the teeth... as far as a picture goes i dont have any but if you really need to see what the teeth look find a water pump at your local parts store LAN whats your process?
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