Starter Bypass Relay Install

[Aredubjay]

Okay, I'm getting ready for Reading -- Changed the oil, checked fluids, cleaned the K&N, replaced "Anti-Rufus Devices" (Hood Struts for those who don't know), and decided to do the Starter Bypass Relay (since I'm having that darned intermittent starting problem).

Got the relay hooked up, turned the key -- NADA! I was bummed.

Just to make sure --

#30 -- I took a wire from the 30 Terminal on the relay to the HOT spot on the solenoid (Battery +) using a 3/8 ring terminal. The connection is in tandem with the hot wire from the battery -- right?

#86 -- I took the 86 terminal from the relay to ground -- I ran a wire from the 86 terminal directly to the negative battery terminal (should I have taken it to "body" ground?)

#87 -- I took the 87 terminal on the relay to the spade terminal on the solenoid. Then . . .

#85 -- I took the wire that was removed from the spade terminal on the starter solenoid, to the 85 terminal on the relay.

Once it didn't start, I thought maybe the relay was bad. I tried another and still no go.

So . . . what did I do wrong. I removed the wires and put everything back to normal and she started fine. Help, please.

[kuoh]

I'm guessing that you're trying to wire in this "starter bypass relay" due to intermittent starts? If so, then you do have it wired correctly, but the problem is not in the relay or solenoid.

I have the same intermittent starting issue and have found that the problem is in my ignition switch. It seems that once the switch gets old, it doesn't always make full contact on start and results in lower than normal voltage going to the starter wire. On my SVX, it measured 6 to 8 volts when experiencing starting problems, which is not enough to fully trigger most 12V automotive relays. You'll either need to clean or replace part of the ignition switch or modify a lower voltage relay to trigger the starter solenoid. I'll probably give the 7-9V mini relay at Radio Shack a try before I attempt disassembling the ignition switch again since I can still remember how much of a pain it was to get at the first time.

KuoH

[Aredubjay]

Originally Posted by kuoh

I'm guessing that you're trying to wire in this "starter bypass relay" due to intermittent starts? If so, then you do have it wired correctly, but the problem is not in the relay or solenoid.

I have the same intermittent starting issue and have found that the problem is in my ignition switch. It seems that once the switch gets old, it doesn't always make full contact on start and results in lower than normal voltage going to the starter wire. On my SVX, it measured 6 to 8 volts when experiencing starting problems, which is not enough to fully trigger most 12V automotive relays. You'll either need to clean or replace part of the ignition switch or modify a lower voltage relay to trigger the starter solenoid. I'll probably give the 7-9V mini relay at Radio Shack a try before I attempt disassembling the ignition switch again since I can still remember how much of a pain it was to get at the first time.

KuoH

Thanks, Kuoh. Doubt if I'll have time to clean the switch before taking off for Reading. This problem seems to get more frequent after the car has been run for a while. I battled it all the way back from New York when I picked up the car. It stopped when I changed the battery terminals . . . for a while . . . then, returned.

"Patience" was beginning to exhibit the same problem but, was fixed with the replacement of the Neutral Safety Switch during my last tranny rebuild.

Darned quirky cars!

[kuoh]

Yup, mine does that too after it's been running for awhile. The first start of the morning is almost always good, but after running for awhile, it usually takes several turns before the starter catches. I'm not sure if the neutral safety switch makes use of the starter kill relay, but you could try bypassing that just in case.

Since you already have experience with wiring in a relay, I would give the lower voltage one a try. I'll probably go do that myself this week. All the rapid on/off/on/off action can't be good on the car's electronics, not to mention what's left of my ignition switch.

KuoH

Originally Posted by Aredubjay

Thanks, Kuoh. Doubt if I'll have time to clean the switch before taking off for Reading. This problem seems to get more frequent after the car has been run for a while. I battled it all the way back from New York when I picked up the car. It stopped when I changed the battery terminals . . . for a while . . . then, returned.

"Patience" was beginning to exhibit the same problem but, was fixed with the replacement of the Neutral Safety Switch during my last tranny rebuild.

Darned quirky cars!

[want-a-fast-svx]

I found that the terminal on the back of one of my starters was almost completely broken giving occasional contact and occasional starting. I would check and see if its loose or possibly broken. It should have a little black clip that is a blade type connection going on it.

[Aredubjay]

Originally Posted by want-a-fast-svx

I found that the terminal on the back of one of my starters was almost completely broken giving occasional contact and occasional starting. I would check and see if its loose or possibly broken. It should have a little black clip that is a blade type connection going on it.

Yep, that was the FIRST thing I replaced when I got the car back home. Then, the battery terminals. I was REALLY hoping this relay fix would do the trick.

[ensteele]

I have the same problem. I can even take my keys out at any position that they are in. I may be driving down the road and the keys fall out. I checked with a local locksmith and he will change it out for me for $75.00. He said it is a real pita to do. He said that is where my problem is anyway. I would have to agree with the two of you too. Now that is refreshing isn't it!

[Aredubjay]

Originally Posted by ensteele

I have the same problem. I can even take my keys out at any position that they are in. I may be driving down the road and the keys fall out. I checked with a local locksmith and he will change it out for me for $75.00. He said it is a real pita to do. He said that is where my problem is anyway. I would have to agree with the two of you too. Now that is refreshing isn't it!

Yeah, but on which one?

[nordique14]

Originally Posted by kuoh

I have the same intermittent starting issue and have found that the problem is in my ignition switch. It seems that once the switch gets old, it doesn't always make full contact on start and results in lower than normal voltage going to the starter wire. On my SVX, it measured 6 to 8 volts when experiencing starting problems, which is not enough to fully trigger most 12V automotive relays.

I bet it willl turn out to be the ignition switch. I had your exact problem. I replaced the battery cables and starter, and did all the addtional wiring (including the relay starter mod - which I could not get to work). None of those things fixed the problem. Had the inition switch replaced. Now starts right up every time. I didn't do this one myself. I think the part was around $50-60, but the labor was a couple of hours at the dealership. They did manage to break a clip on the trim piece by the coin holder.

Matt

[Beav]

I know I have some sort of voltage drop but mine was so intermittent, especially when I got around to checking it, that I couldn't duplicate the concern when I had a voltmeter handy. I know it isn't the starter/alarm relay as I jumped it with solid wire. So I was down to the neutral & ignition switches. That's why I installed the relay. I figure some day it will get bad enough to not power the relay and I'll be able to sort it out then.

[Earthworm]

It's not the alarm...I don't have one. My relay has been performing exactly 100% since it was installed.

[kuoh]

Well, took my own advice and wired in the relay. So far, no problems after several trips and repeated starts. I went with the 9V relay from Radio Shack rather than the 12V automotive relay most people have suggested. I did this because I knew that when my SVX is experiencing the intermittent start problem, there isn't enough voltage to trigger a 12V relay. The 9V relay also only needs around 18mA to trigger versus the 160mA necessary for the 12V relay, making the former more reliable under low voltage conditions. There is the possibility that the 9V coil could burnout quicker due to the slight over current at 12V, but since the starter is only cranked for a few seconds at a time and the relay is cheap, I decided to opt for reliable triggering over durability. I also wired it in using quick disconnects so it can be easily bypassed back to the factory original connector without tools and not leave me stranded should it fail. Here are a few pics in case anyone else is interested in trying this. I might spend some time later to make it look prettier, but as long as it's working, I probably won't bother.

KuoH

[lhopp77]

I honestly think if you intend to keep the car for a while it is infinitely better to "fix" the real problem instead of scabbing on fixes. Just think of the poor guy that buys these "scabbed" cars when later problems occur. Just my opinion and not intending to stifle ingenuity.

Lee

[Beav]

I agree but my problem was so intermittent that I could never get it to occur when I had the chance to track down the 'real' problem. That's why I opted to install the relay vs. replacing either the igniton transmission range switch. Not knowing which was the culprit would make for an expensive shot-gun approach - throwing parts at something with uncertainty. At least this has proven to be a reliable work-around for the time being. Your concern for future owners is really unfounded however, anyone with enough noodles to repair a starter problem would immediately see the relay, as it is so close to the starter.

Kuoh - the small 12v relays don't need all of 12 volts to operate reliably. I'd be concerned that a 9v relay would tend to burn out a bit prematurely. At least you had the good foresight to make it easy to change.

[ensteele]

Originally Posted by nordique14

I bet it willl turn out to be the ignition switch. I had your exact problem. I replaced the battery cables and starter, and did all the addtional wiring (including the relay starter mod - which I could not get to work). None of those things fixed the problem. Had the inition switch replaced. Now starts right up every time. I didn't do this one myself. I think the part was around $50-60, but the labor was a couple of hours at the dealership. They did manage to break a clip on the trim piece by the coin holder.

Matt

I have the same problem and it is the ignition switch. I have not had a chance to get it in to the lock smith yet, but he said the change would be $100. with parts. He has done a few of these before, which surprised me a little.