4eat be made to handle more?

[david_12121]

So some of you might remember my inquisitions about turbocharging. I'm finally getting to it after the suspension modifications on the SVX and all the work I've done to my RX7 (V8 swapped + superchaged)
So the turbo will happen and I'm shooting for 350-400 crank, for now (not sure how good I can get at megasquirting!). So let's go with 320whp, ~320wtq!
Unfortunately projects are expensive and I wouldn't have enough for a dccd, and I don't wanna deal with a 5mt breaking on me cuz of the torque.

So I was thinking of keeping the stock auto for a few months until I get a 6mt.
Do you guys think it can handle the power under the following conditions:
-I already have a pretty large cooler on it
-If I do not ever let it shift on its own while under power, as in I manumatic it, and let it rev down before shifting...
-never break boost and have an eye on the atf temp
-If I have to, weld the center "diff" and make it rwd!

I know this seems idiotic to many of you, and I understand why it would but I'd appreciate any info you can give me on that.

[Chucksta]

Just sayin'...

They aren't know to "grenade".. they are more known to fail for other reasons. Subaru designed the TCU / ECU to give mushy shifts. It was, after all, not meant to be a racer, it was designed to be a gentleman's GT cruiser. The factory settings gave slow, luxurious, barely noticeable shifts. "Unobtrusive" would be a good adjective to describe what Subaru aimed for. A shift kit would definitely help, as far as longevity is concerned. Limiting slippage helps keep heat and wear down to a dull roar. Excessive slippage results in excessive particulate in the transmission fluid, which results in clogged "campaign" filters, clogged passages, poor cooling and premature transmission failure. And Subaru also designed the TCU / ECU to limit engine output at WOT to "cushion" the shifts and avoid drive train shock. Some shift kits use a vacuum signal to change the resistor circuit of the transmission to raise line pressure to firm up the shifts and are simple to install and relatively inexpensive to purchase, but operate in an either "on", or "off" mode, and don't address the ECU power cut off at WOT shifts. Other shift kits, which are more expensive and require a more involved / complicated installation, progressively firm up the shifts by progressively increasing line pressure in relation to throttle pressure, and bypass the factory reduction of engine output at WOT shifts. Personally, I like the soft shifts at low throttle, and the hard snap of a full line pressure shift with no power reduction when I've got it mashed to the floor. When I engage "warp drive", I don't want impulse power. ( yeah, I'm a geek).

Hmmm.. Break a 5MT with the torque? Define "break"..LOL.. A lot of people say they broke one, but there's a huge difference between breaking it with torque, and breaking it shifting .. or missing a shift. The SVX is a heavy car, the result of that, as far as transmissions go, is that it is brutal on the drivetrain to pull all 4 loose.. I've got an '02 WRX that makes well over 300 H.P. 250,000 on the original transmission, second clutch courtesy of Subaru due to a silent recall for shuddering. However, I don't have a performance clutch, it's the bone stock after recall upgrade. If I bang it off the rev limiter and sidestep the clutch..and I DO mean side step, not "pop".. whatta ya think happens? Well, it slips!! It leaves like I got ass ended by a semi, the tach stays at 5K until it hooks up, rips to 7,250 RPM.. I leave my foot on the floor, bang it into second, side step the clutch again,and my accellerometer says I hit 60 MPH in 4.9 seconds.. And when I come to a stop... yes.. I can smell clutch. I love the smell of over heated organics in the morning!! I've only done that to her three times. Once to see if I could hit 60 MPH in less than 5 seconds, and twice for money. The factory clutch is designed to slip under that level of abuse, rather than strip output shaft splines or bust transmission gear teeth. Subaru designed them like that to avoid warrantee claims.. Bust a gear? might be their fault... Smoke the clutch... It's definitely on you.. A 5 MT might be a bit more fragile than a 6 MT, but enough abuse will still bust parts no matter what.. It's just a matter of when. Hot tires, hot pavement, 320 HP and a grabby clutch, with 3,500 pounds pressing the rubber to the road.... Sooner or later.. Bang! Wooot, woot, wooot bang! Crap! I need a tow truck,..sucks!

I don't know enough about the valve body of a 4EAT to give you a definitive opinion, but I'm not sure if manually shifting while backing off the throttle is best or not. The transmission has accumulators and springs and valves and reservoirs and the TCU talks to the ECU, which talks to the TPS... Etc, etc... If backing off the throttle lowers the line pressure, it might be better to let the trans do it's thing, especially if you toss a shift kit in. Some searching of this forum would probably find a thread about that, especially as I know there's a mixed school of thought about leaving the shifter in third gear around town.. Also, make sure the brake band is set properly. If you've got a sloppy 2 / 3 shift, be sure to check the setting.

Keep an eye on the ATF temp gauge? Do you have a stand alone gauge, or are you referring to the idiot light on the dash? If you're going by the light on the dash, by the time it's lighting up, it might be a bit late. You've got a "pretty large cooler".. As long as it's properly mounted where it gets tons of air flow, overheating shouldn't be an issue.

No clue about welding the center diff.. did you mean with the manual transmission? The USDM 4EAT is 90 /10 until the front wheels slip, then it splits power up to 50 /50 .. There are cheap, almost free mods that would let you pre select that electrically, so that 4WD is engaged before you mash the happy pedal. Those kinda mods are just a search away. they're quick too.

Then... there's the "Elephant in the room".. Why the manual transmission? Granted, some people just don't feel like they're driving unless they're driving a stick. If that's the case, then have at it! But, If it's a matter of performance, reliability, cost...have you considered it'd probably be half the cost for a 4.44 swap? A 4.44 trans, 320 WHP..you'd be looking at low 13s' in the 1/4 mile... all day every day. Personally, I love the stock gearing of the SVX, the low revs on the highway. It's my cruiser, that turns heads and still will smoke a lot of stuff, especially from 50 to 80 MPH. My WRX is my bantam weight blitzer. But hey!.. The best part of having your own toys is getting to do what you want with them!

Post back what you decide..

Good luck, have fun..

[svxfiles]

Originally Posted by Chucksta

Just sayin'...

They aren't know to "grenade".. they are more known to fail for other reasons. Subaru designed the TCU / ECU to give mushy shifts. It was, after all, not meant to be a racer, it was designed to be a gentleman's GT cruiser. The factory settings gave slow, luxurious, barely noticeable shifts. "Unobtrusive" would be a good adjective to describe what Subaru aimed for. A shift kit would definitely help, as far as longevity is concerned. Limiting slippage helps keep heat and wear down to a dull roar. Excessive slippage results in excessive particulate in the transmission fluid, which results in clogged "campaign" filters, clogged passages, poor cooling and premature transmission failure. And Subaru also designed the TCU / ECU to limit engine output at WOT to "cushion" the shifts and avoid drive train shock. Some shift kits use a vacuum signal to change the resistor circuit of the transmission to raise line pressure to firm up the shifts and are simple to install and relatively inexpensive to purchase, but operate in an either "on", or "off" mode, and don't address the ECU power cut off at WOT shifts. Other shift kits, which are more expensive and require a more involved / complicated installation, progressively firm up the shifts by progressively increasing line pressure in relation to throttle pressure, and bypass the factory reduction of engine output at WOT shifts. Personally, I like the soft shifts at low throttle, and the hard snap of a full line pressure shift with no power reduction when I've got it mashed to the floor. When I engage "warp drive", I don't want impulse power. ( yeah, I'm a geek).

Hmmm.. Break a 5MT with the torque? Define "break"..LOL.. A lot of people say they broke one, but there's a huge difference between breaking it with torque, and breaking it shifting .. or missing a shift. The SVX is a heavy car, the result of that, as far as transmissions go, is that it is brutal on the drivetrain to pull all 4 loose.. I've got an '02 WRX that makes well over 300 H.P. 250,000 on the original transmission, second clutch courtesy of Subaru due to a silent recall for shuddering. However, I don't have a performance clutch, it's the bone stock after recall upgrade. If I bang it off the rev limiter and sidestep the clutch..and I DO mean side step, not "pop".. whatta ya think happens? Well, it slips!! It leaves like I got ass ended by a semi, the tach stays at 5K until it hooks up, rips to 7,250 RPM.. I leave my foot on the floor, bang it into second, side step the clutch again,and my accellerometer says I hit 60 MPH in 4.9 seconds.. And when I come to a stop... yes.. I can smell clutch. I love the smell of over heated organics in the morning!! I've only done that to her three times. Once to see if I could hit 60 MPH in less than 5 seconds, and twice for money. The factory clutch is designed to slip under that level of abuse, rather than strip output shaft splines or bust transmission gear teeth. Subaru designed them like that to avoid warrantee claims.. Bust a gear? might be their fault... Smoke the clutch... It's definitely on you.. A 5 MT might be a bit more fragile than a 6 MT, but enough abuse will still bust parts no matter what.. It's just a matter of when. Hot tires, hot pavement, 320 HP and a grabby clutch, with 3,500 pounds pressing the rubber to the road.... Sooner or later.. Bang! Wooot, woot, wooot bang! Crap! I need a tow truck,..sucks!

I don't know enough about the valve body of a 4EAT to give you a definitive opinion, but I'm not sure if manually shifting while backing off the throttle is best or not. The transmission has accumulators and springs and valves and reservoirs and the TCU talks to the ECU, which talks to the TPS... Etc, etc... If backing off the throttle lowers the line pressure, it might be better to let the trans do it's thing, especially if you toss a shift kit in. Some searching of this forum would probably find a thread about that, especially as I know there's a mixed school of thought about leaving the shifter in third gear around town.. Also, make sure the brake band is set properly. If you've got a sloppy 2 / 3 shift, be sure to check the setting.

Keep an eye on the ATF temp gauge? Do you have a stand alone gauge, or are you referring to the idiot light on the dash? If you're going by the light on the dash, by the time it's lighting up, it might be a bit late. You've got a "pretty large cooler".. As long as it's properly mounted where it gets tons of air flow, overheating shouldn't be an issue.

No clue about welding the center diff.. did you mean with the manual transmission? The USDM 4EAT is 90 /10 until the front wheels slip, then it splits power up to 50 /50 .. There are cheap, almost free mods that would let you pre select that electrically, so that 4WD is engaged before you mash the happy pedal. Those kinda mods are just a search away. they're quick too.

Then... there's the "Elephant in the room".. Why the manual transmission? Granted, some people just don't feel like they're driving unless they're driving a stick. If that's the case, then have at it! But, If it's a matter of performance, reliability, cost...have you considered it'd probably be half the cost for a 4.44 swap? A 4.44 trans, 320 WHP..you'd be looking at low 13s' in the 1/4 mile... all day every day. Personally, I love the stock gearing of the SVX, the low revs on the highway. It's my cruiser, that turns heads and still will smoke a lot of stuff, especially from 50 to 80 MPH. My WRX is my bantam weight blitzer. But hey!.. The best part of having your own toys is getting to do what you want with them!

Post back what you decide..

Good luck, have fun..

I think that you mean that a manual is TWICE the cost of a 4.44.
Not saying that it is not a good way to go, but its alot more money to go stick.

[Chucksta]

"But, If it's a matter of performance, reliability, cost...have you considered it'd probably be half the cost for a 4.44 swap? "

Umm.. half the cost FOR a 4.44 swap ... Not half the cost OF 4.44 swap.

I think I know what I meant to say, but I realize that what I think I meant isn't what I think you heard. It could be that that you think I meant what I think I said, but I'm not sure if I accidentally obfuscated ... Ahhh screw it..

Thanks for the clarity!!

You definitely clarified what I meant.... Cool!!

Thanks.

Chuck.

[david_12121]

I'll try to touch up on all the points you guys brought up

-So you're telling me that a shift kit on a stock 4eat will make it handle 320wtq on a +3600lb car? I've heard good things about them but that seems like an awful lot of torque and weight for just a shift kit to make much of a difference!

-break a 5mt? I have been told by 2 friends with bugeyes that they both broke theirs, after a short while, one with 280w and one with 300w. One broke his 2nd gear, yes broke the actual gear, and the 2nd hasn't disassembled it yet. If that happens with less power, in a lighter car, I doubt it'll take the SVX much time to break it. Yes, both those guys are idiot drivers who deserve Hondas but I'd rather baby a 4eat than baby a 5mt.

-Regarding the valve body, I have no idea, that's why I was asking you guys.

-Yes, standalone sensor. Cooler mounted between the AC condenser and the radiator. I'll probably take out the AC at that point, so even more flow.
I believe it was a 9000gvwr, and people said it's too big for the SVX but I don't live ina cold area.

-I think someone used some tool from subie and it said it's between 70/30 and 50/50 but the chattering clutch is not one to handle that much power. So it's somewhat common for people to weld the clutch pack and take out the front axles! Easier to slip the tires, less stress on tranny!

-I don't want an auto, never enjoyed it and never will. The SVX is my weekend car, I commute on a motorcycle so it needs a manual.

Thanks for the help, Chuck...I'm used to getting shut down for my "insane" ideas!

[NiftySVX]

Lots of stuff to clear up here. You need to be monitoring the temp in the pan. Cooler line temp means nothing. The SVX stock has a very good transmission temp stabilizing system that works quite well unless you have a modified engine making substantially more power or a high stall converter.

The filter that was put on the early cars was a mistake and shouldn't have been done. Hopefully everyone has replaced their radiator and converter by now. That filter was a really dumb idea.

As for the transfer clutch, that is not how it works. It doesn't just hang out with some value. That is how many manufacturers worked that tried to copy the subaru system. It is based on the theory of predictive modeling. That is to say, the "Subaru all wheel driving system" (I just love to use their silly name) actually does what they advertised. It tries to anticipate wheel spin and stop it from happening. It was a state of the art system at that time. Let me try and illustrate:

The age old argument about the MPT clutch having a certain torque split is really just an exercise in futility. The clutch is constantly changing. So realistically you can have a torque split of, say, 5% or so when cruising in 4th at low throttle. In manual 1 it is more like 30-40%. In 2 at half throttle it might be 25%. In reverse it is something like 32%. If it slips at all it defaults back to its close to 50-50. Problem is that these transmissions don't have the line pressure to lock that clutch together. You can easily spin the front wheels on a low traction surface and the tcu will try but it can't/won't put enough pressure back to the rear to truly "lock" the thing. This is why I did what I did with my pump, transfer clutch, and line pressure when I still ran that system.

If you remove the front axles on an automatic that has the MPT you will break it in a big hurry. The transfer clutch hub is tiny and is spot welded on the reduction drive gear at the back of the output shaft. I've seen them break just from messed up duty Cs on AWD cars so I wouldn't try it…I wouldn't even try to drive an SVX with the old school "locked" the way some do. (these are just guesses/experience talking here)

If you want to do some math, you can make a roundabout calc, it will show the stock SVX 4eat should be good for something like 350 or more horsepower. But again, that was done by some of us as more of a mental exercise.

I would guess that taking an early SVX forward clutch with 8pc and a late model hc with all the holes and the small bearing and the newer hub and reverse drum, getting some pretty good accum springs, and modifying the pump and or software to increase base line should give you a 4eat that would hold up to a lot. I would probably take a donor trans, say a 1994 or newer SVX unit, tear it down, put a 4.11 or 4.44 gear in it and make those modifications if I wanted to build a strong 4EAT. But I am not aware of anyone who has done that.

I built mine this way but with a stock pump and a 3.70 ratio with VTD and I don't expect to have any problems out of it.

[david_12121]

Thanks for the info...learned a lot

Regarding the clutch basket, based on the pictures I've seen, the other 4eat's are pretty beastly around there...don't seem like something that would break so easily...is the SVX one different? Also if it's welded, instead of the shock the chatter creates, however small, you have continuous transfer of torque...
Cuz I know MANY people do the removal and then just the selenoid mod and go drifting...I know that's a crappy idea so I thought the welding would be better at least...was not aware of the other weak links

I know they can be made to take power but it's not worth the money for me, since I won't be keeping it.

[92 SVX]

Originally Posted by david_12121

Thanks for the info...learned a lot

Regarding the clutch basket, based on the pictures I've seen, the other 4eat's are pretty beastly around there...don't seem like something that would break so easily...is the SVX one different? Also if it's welded, instead of the shock the chatter creates, however small, you have continuous transfer of torque...
Cuz I know MANY people do the removal and then just the selenoid mod and go drifting...I know that's a crappy idea so I thought the welding would be better at least...was not aware of the other weak links

I know they can be made to take power but it's not worth the money for me, since I won't be keeping it.

you can not remove the front cv axles, the wheel bearing will fall out.

yes you can break the rear clutch basket The ones you have seen are from what years? I believe in 01 and later, Nate or someone else can tell you for sure, they use the VTD type transmission which is much stronger and all around a better set up. Unfortunately in the early years they wanted a AWD that could be put on a 2WD dyno.

[1986nate]

Originally Posted by 92 SVX

you can not remove the front cv axles, the wheel bearing will fall out.

yes you can break the rear clutch basket The ones you have seen are from what years? I believe in 01 and later, Nate or someone else can tell you for sure, they use the VTD type transmission which is much stronger and all around a better set up. Unfortunately in the early years they wanted a AWD that could be put on a 2WD dyno.

This was due to US emissions standards testing, not because they wanted to.
Starting in 2002 VTD boxes became used on various high level US models. 02 wrx, 02 VDC outback, and then spreading to other turbo and H6 models later on.

As for the OP's initial post, get the 6 spd as soon as you can and don't be shocked when the autotragic grenades. that is all

[92 SVX]

Originally Posted by 1986nate

This was due to US emissions standards testing, not because they wanted to.
Starting in 2002 VTD boxes became used on various high level US models. 02 wrx, 02 VDC outback, and then spreading to other turbo and H6 models later on.

As for the OP's initial post, get the 6 spd as soon as you can and don't be shocked when the autotragic grenades. that is all

ah, yes I left out who wanted the car on 2WD dyno, but yep thats what it was. Other markets had the better VTD transmissions from the start.

[Chucksta]

-I don't want an auto, never enjoyed it and never will. The SVX is my weekend car, I commute on a motorcycle so it needs a manual. "

Well... At the end of the day, that's the only line in this thread that matters!!

98 rs 2.5 trans, get the necessary pieces and have at it! . Get a stage 1 clutch, roll the clutch up enough to pre load the drive train, launch it, but don't dump it, or side step it .. and enjoy the ride.

Your buddies broke teeth off their transmissions.. Look at the history of my WRX... 250,000 KM.. and .. not to put too fine a point on it.. well over 300 HP. towed my boat with it.. drive it like I stole it.. beat the living ***t out of it.. other than some warranty work ( syncros and shudder recall on the clutch), no issues.I change the lube every 100,000 KM... whether it needs it or not. But, I understand the difference between use and abuse. A Subaru manual transmission, will NOT, in my opinion, in it's stock configuration, tolerate "speed shifting", or, side stepping the clutch if the clutch is aftermarket. I've seen the inside of mine, when it was being serviced, just the way the teeth mesh, I could see rounding off a gear with extreme power, but one tooth missing would, seem to me to be a missed shift (s). '01 was the last year of the single cone 1st gear synchro.. '02 was the first year of the double cone first gear synchro, but they definitely didn't get it right. Subaru used what would be considered an old design, and it .. well... it wasn't ready for prime time. If you check the Subaru forums , you'll see the horror stories about them... but they all usually have one thing in common.. failure from shifting abuse, failure and poor function from the design, ( synchros) not failure from just the application of power. Basically, you can't destroy a synchro from power, but you can yank the shifter hard enough to get past the synchro and damage the gears. Mine (the WRX) has the power to self destruct, but, obviously, I seem to know where the line is between the two.

You really, really want to keep the AWD.. most performance contests are won or lost in the first thirty feet. Especially Ummm.. not that I would have any personal experience with this concept.. light to light.. If I take you to the cleaners off the line, even if I back off and you've started to catch up.. Well.. I won!! lol.. Even if you don't take the drive train to the point that you can turn all 4 off the line, you can still launch way harder than a FWD ricer. Go with 2 WD, front or rear, and, not only are you losing part of what makes an SVX a hoot to drive, you've traded away the "yee haw Billy" off the line launch of AWD for spinning the tires while you're trying to get a 3,500 pound car to kick something with a significantly better power to weight ratio... Not dissin the genre, but it's seldom that a FWD tuner puts the time, money and thought into setting up the suspension so that it launches to it's potential. I've kicked butt with my WRX against civics that would've eaten me if we'd rolled from 60 MPH to 100 MPH.. I put it on the ground and left, while they were trying to deal with a drive train that inherently shifts the weight off the wheels that are trying to move the vehicle. RWD launching is it's own dog also. You need to have the right suspension and launch technique to "squat" and get the weight transfer to the rear, or the tires just spin, because the weight didn't transfer to make them stick. That set up doesn't necessarily lend itself to the best ride or handling either ( you're probably not old enough to know what a "90 / 10 " shock does to the way a car launches or rides.. but I am ) .. And a properly set up SVX is one of the best handling vehicles money can buy. Ever. Other vehicles may have a higher lateral traction rating, but that rating is from what the SVX pulled with the stock tires from the '90s', not with what's available in tires and rims and performance compounds today. ( yeah.. I love my Hankook 245 X 40 X 18 summer tires ). And the few cars ( from it's production date ), that could out skid pan it, didn't necessarily win when it came to the slalom figures ..they were usually slower.

You're going to land up with a stick in her... sooner or later.. If for no other reason than that's what you want. How about this.. change the fluid in the auto ... replace the filter ( if it has one ) Set the "Brake band" ... stop worrying about the trans cooler. Why?.. because it's over capacity for what you're doing anyways.. run the trans cooler lines straight into it and by pass the rad. You didn't mention if it's thermostatically controlled or not, but the trans being too cold ( which at worst, would make torque converter lock up unavailable after November ), wouldn't be the end of the world. Personally, I wouldn't take out the AC.. When it's on, the electric fans spin faster than if the sensor just made them go on. AC on will actually give the highest airflow from the fans, which means the maximum cooling for the trans cooler.

Want to increase the line pressure to reduce slippage during shifts? Go to the local electronics geek store and get a 25 ohm 25 watt resistor.. It's all of about $3.00.. get a 40 OHM one too. Get a couple of connectors too, so you can just change them without soldering... Swap out the factory "dropping resistor" behind the battery, which is about 12 OHMs', and see what you think of the way it shifts. All that does, is raise the duty cycle of the "A" solenoid, which controls the line pressure for shifting. If you like it.. fine!.. or try the 40 OHM one and see what you think of the difference.

If it goes "BANG".. well.... I guess that means you're putting in the stick sooner rather than later.

Don't misunderstand.. I'm not saying don't do what you want with her, or, don't do what you want , how you want, but I think you'd be happiest with keeping the best aspects of what makes an SVX an SVX, and "personalizing" your drive train choices.

[david_12121]

Thanks again guys
So the RWD "conversion" is clearly out.
Regarding the 5mt, say from an RS, anyone else think it'll be in pain with 320wtq on a +3600lb car? No sidestepping in the dry and the very occasional fast shifting?
My car's a canyon driver, don't really care about drag racing or light to light and what not, I just want enough power to be able to get the rear to spin around a bit. Love the awd, and even with my current setup, I can get the rear to slide a bit to reduce understeer so more power will only make it better.
oh btw, doesn't uphill increase load on the tranny? Need I take that into account as well?

About the line pressure mod, Chuck, do we have tutorials for that, cuz I was thinking about bumping the pressure but didn't know it was so easy to do!

[92 SVX]

The best manual swap you can do is the STI 6 speed, but its a spendy swap second best is the WRX, 02-07 I believe, 5 speed. not as spendy but usually plenty strong for the power the svx has.

[Chucksta]

Well.. Let's start with AWD drifting 101..

To drift an AWD vehicle requires a significantly different technique than RWD. In a RWD drift, throttle application and steering input angle determine the arc and line through the corner. In an AWD drift, as all 4 wheels are "loose" under power, ( 'cause yeah.. although an SVX won't rip all 4 lose in a straight line without a lot of work, it will happily rip all 4 loose when close to the edge of lateral traction), reaction to steering input is significantly different than RWD.

Also, please "get" that I'm not talking about hockey puck tires, put on a show, go slower than a moped, make lotsa lotsa smoke holy G ain't I cool , can you hear my rev limiter and blow off valve poppin drifting. This is about exceeding 100% of available lateral traction, keeping control, and slapping a smile on your face that a sledge hammer couldn't take off.


Yes, I know there are other methods... but.. here's mine..from trial and ( a lot of ) error.


To properly drift an AWD vehicle, it is necessary to first precess the vehicle in relationship to arc of the corner. In this context, "precess" refers to rotating the mass of the vehicle around it's center of gravity. Think of it like this, if it'll take you 10 seconds to complete a 90 degree corner, you want to have the vehicle precessing at that same rate. A slower precession rate, and the front will tend to wash out to the outside of the turn, a faster precession rate will lead to the rear end coming to the outside of the turn when you don't want it to. An SVX with less power than needed to maintain speed in a corner, will slightly understeer. With a bit more power, it's almost neutral. Properly precessed, at the corner entry, oversteer with power on, is achievable and controllable.

Here's another word that helps with drifting.. or actually, recovering from one that's not going as well as you'd like.. "stiction".. for the purposes of drifting, or recovery from an accidental understeer... It means that a tire generates it's maximum grip just as it breaks loose. Ever see an interior shot of a race car in a hard corner, and the driver is pulling the steering wheel back and forth in a 90 degree arc?.. he's taking the front wheels from not sliding, to sliding and back again. More for an increasingly tight radius turn, you've backed of the power a bit, but it's not gathering up as quickly as you'd like.. Play with that in a parking lot.. you'll see where that's a valuable technique. It can also be used just before breaking traction with the throttle to set up a bit of oversteer in a drift.

Dropping resistor mod? Piece of cake! Find the connector just behind the battery. That's what you want to McGuyver... Try an electronics surplus supply for the resistors ( (1) 20 OHM x 25 Watt , (1) 30 OHM x 25 watt, etc.) See if they have any decent clip together connectors that look durable and reasonably waterproof, if not , hit up an RC hobby shop, they'll have exactly what you need. Cut out the old one, and solder and shrink wrap the female end under the hood, and a male end to the factory resistor, and the ones you bought. Plug one in and close the hood and go for a test drive, see what you think.

Wanna get funky? .. you could always wire a few of them up to a switch inside the car and be able to change the value on the fly. A simple three pole switch would be all you need.

Wanna see what a 4EAT can shift like at full line pressure? Just disconnect the factory resistor and go for a ride. The Check engine light and the flashing ATF light will go away three or four starts after you plug it back together. Third gear braking will also return. This is NOT a long term solution.. it's just for reference purposes.

[david_12121]

Wasn't talking about drifting, Chuck! I was talking about the slight slip that reduces understeer. Well not exactly, you still understeer but the rear goes out the same amount and you stay pretty neutral.
I've done my share of all wheel drifting with a Subaru, and however fun it is, you don't really have the power to modulate with throttle, so I'm done attempting to drift something with a VTD (unless I do the solenoid mod) it's way too sketchy

And just to make sure, f###ing with the line pressure is safe, right? I might even put a large potentiometer and find the "perfect" resistance if it can't cause problems!