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#1
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Have had tranny cooler for over a year...
I am still torn as to whether or not to install. Will it really make a difference on a 96? My mechanic has said we should leave well enough alone.
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Tony 1996 Polo Green Subaru SVX LSi, 168,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 5W50 FS (3qt) and 5W30 High Mileage (4qt) Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, Centric Rotors, Power Stop Evolution Carbon Fiber Ceramic Brake Pads 2005 Gray Acura RL, 165,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF with Lubegard Platinum Protectant, Mobil 1 5W20 High Mileage Extended Performance Oil 2009 Red Toyota Venza, 123,XXX, Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage Oil 1992 Red Ferrari 348 ts, 82,XXX, Redline everything |
#2
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Re: Have had tranny cooler for over a year...
I never saw the need to put a cooler in my 96. I got my car with 42,000 miles and in the 10 years I've had it, never saw transmission problems or heat.
And it gets warmer down here than where you are. Believe me, if I saw even the slightest need, it would be in there. OT has connected the SSM countless times and the tranny temps were always good. .
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. Subaru Ambassador 1996 Polo Green LSi #216..138,100 miles...SOLD JFICX8659TH100216.....Date of Manufacture: November 16, 1995..... Fuji Heavy Industries..Ōta North Plant....Ōta City,. Gunma Prefecture, Japan In-Service Date: January 2, 1997 "The Pristine Green Polo Machine” First Polo Green on the Network First Clear front turn signals, JDM Alcyone hood emblem, rear panel, and BOXER engine cover on the Network (US) (2000) First 5000K HID factory fog lights (2007) First SVX JDM BBS wheels on a USDM SVX (2013) HID lighting (5000K) for headlight and H3 fog lights, PIAA SuperExtreme 120W high beams, rebuilt EG33 longblock, Cometic head gaskets, Phase II flexplate, AMR aluminum radiator with custom silicone hoses, 160A high-output alternator in aluminum-ceramic coated case, new design alternator wiring upgrade v.4, rare factory headlight protectors, refinished JDM BBS mesh aluminum wheels and custom, polished billet aluminum new hex center caps, LED grille mod, R1 Concepts high-carbon cryo slotted rotors, Akebono ceramic pads, Goodridge S/S braided brake lines, Smallcar Stage 1 shift kit, ThermalTech aluminum/ceramic-coated valve covers, Energy Suspension urethane front & rear swaybar bushings, Bontrager22 rear swaybar with QS Components Chromoly Teflon/Kevlar endlinks, "$15.00/5 minute" suspension mod. Hella Supertone horns, Custom stainless steel exhaust system with 2" headpipes, Magnaflow cats, AeroTurbine AR25 resonator /AWD "Bullet" muffler. R.I.P. 2010 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5 CVT...338,000 miles. Totaled by a 1,300 lb. COW March 4, 2016 2014 Hyundai Avante Limited ...178,000 miles. Actually quieter and smoother than the Outback 2007 Mazda Miata MX-5 PRHT...102,000 miles. Plenty of parts, service and windshields. 4th Registered Network member —2/21/2001 My NEW locker..I...My Email..I..Wikipedia/SVX . . |
#3
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Re: Have had tranny cooler for over a year...
Quote:
Most of the SVXi that come here have transmission temperatures right at or over 200°f! I have one customer that had transmission temps in the 240°f range. He came back later for a cooler in parallel with the stock in radiator cooler and the transmission temperatures went down to 176°. If we can control the temperatures on our two most expencive parts, the engine and transmission, then they should last alot longer.
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www.svxfiles.com The first SuperCharged SVX, the first 4.44 gears, the first equal length headers, the first phenolic spacers, the first Class Glass fiberglass hood, the first with 4, 4.44s in his driveway Fiberglass Hood thread My locker 4.44 Swap link |
#4
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Re: Have had tranny cooler for over a year...
Well said, Tom
I highly trust and respect his considerable expertise in this area. Had he ever seen the slightest indication that I needed to install a cooler, I would have installed one without question. What size is your cooler. You want adequate reduction in cooling, while allowing the torque converter to still lock up. .
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. Subaru Ambassador 1996 Polo Green LSi #216..138,100 miles...SOLD JFICX8659TH100216.....Date of Manufacture: November 16, 1995..... Fuji Heavy Industries..Ōta North Plant....Ōta City,. Gunma Prefecture, Japan In-Service Date: January 2, 1997 "The Pristine Green Polo Machine” First Polo Green on the Network First Clear front turn signals, JDM Alcyone hood emblem, rear panel, and BOXER engine cover on the Network (US) (2000) First 5000K HID factory fog lights (2007) First SVX JDM BBS wheels on a USDM SVX (2013) HID lighting (5000K) for headlight and H3 fog lights, PIAA SuperExtreme 120W high beams, rebuilt EG33 longblock, Cometic head gaskets, Phase II flexplate, AMR aluminum radiator with custom silicone hoses, 160A high-output alternator in aluminum-ceramic coated case, new design alternator wiring upgrade v.4, rare factory headlight protectors, refinished JDM BBS mesh aluminum wheels and custom, polished billet aluminum new hex center caps, LED grille mod, R1 Concepts high-carbon cryo slotted rotors, Akebono ceramic pads, Goodridge S/S braided brake lines, Smallcar Stage 1 shift kit, ThermalTech aluminum/ceramic-coated valve covers, Energy Suspension urethane front & rear swaybar bushings, Bontrager22 rear swaybar with QS Components Chromoly Teflon/Kevlar endlinks, "$15.00/5 minute" suspension mod. Hella Supertone horns, Custom stainless steel exhaust system with 2" headpipes, Magnaflow cats, AeroTurbine AR25 resonator /AWD "Bullet" muffler. R.I.P. 2010 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5 CVT...338,000 miles. Totaled by a 1,300 lb. COW March 4, 2016 2014 Hyundai Avante Limited ...178,000 miles. Actually quieter and smoother than the Outback 2007 Mazda Miata MX-5 PRHT...102,000 miles. Plenty of parts, service and windshields. 4th Registered Network member —2/21/2001 My NEW locker..I...My Email..I..Wikipedia/SVX . . |
#5
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Re: Have had tranny cooler for over a year...
On another hand Tony,
I just drove my son Nick's 96 4.44 SVX 1602 miles from Abilene Texas, to Wiley Ford West Virginia with no TQ lock up, and only third for high gear. 4000 RPM at about 60 MPH.(about 27 hours driving time) I/We ues BG Prouducts full synthetic ATF, Mobil1 10/30 in the engine with a L30165, and Mobil1 75/90 in the front and rear differentials. When his trans lost fourth gear , IN Abilene, all I did was to hook up the SSM, and (later when I thought of it) pump up the tires to 40/35. The transmission was at 198°f for 99% of the trip, with a couple of 207°f spikes when I had to go faster to not get run over. Only once did I see 208°f, for a minute. Back down, crank the heater to cook me. The 4.44 in his SVX is from a 1996 Subaru Outback, and I BELIEVE that he has no external transmission cooler. I DO KNOW that he does not have an external transmission filter. The trip just reminds me that we should ALL have synthentics, just in case. It never hurts to have an edge, or an out!
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www.svxfiles.com The first SuperCharged SVX, the first 4.44 gears, the first equal length headers, the first phenolic spacers, the first Class Glass fiberglass hood, the first with 4, 4.44s in his driveway Fiberglass Hood thread My locker 4.44 Swap link |
#6
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Re: Have had tranny cooler for over a year...
As you can see in my signature, I have synthetics all around now. The reason I am asking about the cooler is that I need an oil change soon and I am also due for the next drain and refill on the ATF. If I were to install the cooler, this might be a good time to do it as I won't be doing another ATF drain and refill soon.
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Tony 1996 Polo Green Subaru SVX LSi, 168,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 5W50 FS (3qt) and 5W30 High Mileage (4qt) Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, Centric Rotors, Power Stop Evolution Carbon Fiber Ceramic Brake Pads 2005 Gray Acura RL, 165,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF with Lubegard Platinum Protectant, Mobil 1 5W20 High Mileage Extended Performance Oil 2009 Red Toyota Venza, 123,XXX, Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage Oil 1992 Red Ferrari 348 ts, 82,XXX, Redline everything |
#7
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Re: Have had tranny cooler for over a year...
I know and respect your knowledge of lubricants.
It far excedes mine. But unless you know what YOUR cars' actual working temperatures are, (or pressures are) then you do not really know whether you need the extra cooler or not. The guy with the 240° temps, this was after we had changed to synthetics! If you are going to Reading we can run the SSM ang get an actual number.
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www.svxfiles.com The first SuperCharged SVX, the first 4.44 gears, the first equal length headers, the first phenolic spacers, the first Class Glass fiberglass hood, the first with 4, 4.44s in his driveway Fiberglass Hood thread My locker 4.44 Swap link |
#8
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Re: Have had tranny cooler for over a year...
Really, how well do know? Sorry couldn't resist.
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1992 LSL ebony pearl 170k - Thank you Ron Mummert Reading Box of Wine Car ----------------------------------- 1992 SVX LSL 5-Speed Sold at 180K 2019 1995 SVX Lsi Polo Sold at 118K 2007 |
#9
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Re: Have had tranny cooler for over a year...
Quote:
Why don't you just play darts in the dark boys without a proper gauge placed properly in the hotest fluid area that is all you are doing.
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British vehicles are my last ditch attempt to keep the nasty Italian thoughts in my mind at bay. So far its working. |
#10
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Re: Have had tranny cooler for over a year...
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The SSM idea at Reading sounds like a great idea Tom, I would appreciate that! And if they are too high, Nate can install the cooler as I am sure he will be travelling with his garage-in-a-van again.
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Tony 1996 Polo Green Subaru SVX LSi, 168,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 5W50 FS (3qt) and 5W30 High Mileage (4qt) Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, Centric Rotors, Power Stop Evolution Carbon Fiber Ceramic Brake Pads 2005 Gray Acura RL, 165,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF with Lubegard Platinum Protectant, Mobil 1 5W20 High Mileage Extended Performance Oil 2009 Red Toyota Venza, 123,XXX, Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage Oil 1992 Red Ferrari 348 ts, 82,XXX, Redline everything |
#11
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Re: Have had tranny cooler for over a year...
"Some" people might want to become educated by doing some of that reading thing:
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/AT06.pdf Things which are important: 1. Operating temperture combined with oil change interval (even somewhat elevated temperatures are Ok if you change the fluid more frequently) 2. Fluid viscosity index (you don't want the viscosity to change a lot over temperature...see article) 3. Shear resistance, which is indicated by the viscosity under the high shear, high temperature test (HTHS) 4. Anti-foaming additive used 5. Anti-oxidation additive used 6. Types of base oils used and their percentages Not every oil breaks down at the same rate. Not every oil transfers heat at the same rate. Synthetics oxidize slower, shear less, have a higher viscosity index and, sometimes, have superior heat transfer (esters). So Tom is correct in that synthetics help. Mike (LAN) has suggested in the past to use Subaru ATF with Lubegard. That is also a good suggestion as Lubegard adds esters which improve heat transfer and reduce frictional wear but it also adds other fluids which reduce the rate of oxidation (ageing). So, no, not even a gauge can tell you everything you need to know. The only way to truly know what is happening is to send your used oil for a used oil analysis which will tell you how much acid is in the fluid, how much base material is left and what the viscosity sheared to. Or one could ask people what their experiences were (failure rate, fluid color or odor change, etc.) given the model year of the car, the fluid they used, the interval with which they changed the fluid and how they drove the car. I have heard several people suggest that the later model trannies don't need the cooler and, if anything, they can just be an annoyance by delaying or preventing TC lock up. If you don't want to use an additive like Lubegard and you don't want to change your petro based ATF for 100,000 miles then, yeah, you need to keep your tranny tempertaures down to 170F.
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Tony 1996 Polo Green Subaru SVX LSi, 168,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 5W50 FS (3qt) and 5W30 High Mileage (4qt) Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, Centric Rotors, Power Stop Evolution Carbon Fiber Ceramic Brake Pads 2005 Gray Acura RL, 165,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF with Lubegard Platinum Protectant, Mobil 1 5W20 High Mileage Extended Performance Oil 2009 Red Toyota Venza, 123,XXX, Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage Oil 1992 Red Ferrari 348 ts, 82,XXX, Redline everything |
#12
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Re: Have had tranny cooler for over a year...
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Highest temp I saw on my SVX for an average pan fluid temp was over 250 degrees without a properly mounted cooler, with a cooler 218 which when I returned home the Mobil 1 synth. that was in it (which at the time had the highest independently verified flash, fire and thermal breakdown limits). That was on a 95 SVX. Don't believe me, that's fine, just keep driving. I'll win this one.
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British vehicles are my last ditch attempt to keep the nasty Italian thoughts in my mind at bay. So far its working. |
#13
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Re: Have had tranny cooler for over a year...
Gee a lot of technical "what ifs" here.
Just fit the air cooler in series with, and before the water cooler. The air cooler removes the high end temp, and the water cooler stabilizes the temp for the box to operate properly. Harvey.
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One Arm Bloke. Tell it like it is! 95 Lsi. Bordeaux Pearl, Aust. RHD.149,000Kls Subaru BBS wheels. 97 Liberty GX Auto sedan. 320,000Kls. 04 Liberty 30R Auto Premium. 92.000kls. |
#14
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Re: Have had tranny cooler for over a year...
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Tony 1996 Polo Green Subaru SVX LSi, 168,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 5W50 FS (3qt) and 5W30 High Mileage (4qt) Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, Centric Rotors, Power Stop Evolution Carbon Fiber Ceramic Brake Pads 2005 Gray Acura RL, 165,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF with Lubegard Platinum Protectant, Mobil 1 5W20 High Mileage Extended Performance Oil 2009 Red Toyota Venza, 123,XXX, Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage Oil 1992 Red Ferrari 348 ts, 82,XXX, Redline everything |
#15
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Re: Have had tranny cooler for over a year...
Quote:
For example, you propose to put the cooler in series before the radiator cooler. Your point about temperature stabilization with regards to TC lockup makes sense. But, on the other hand, others have been pretty adamant that the main problem with these trannies is pressure, not temperature, and that bypassing the radiator cooler is more desirable due to the much reduced flow resistance. If true, the main reason to use an external cooler is to realize this bypass arrangement, not to reduce operating temperature. I recall the argument being that abuse and/or poor maintenance and/or design flaws lead to a loss of a line pressure which leads to slipping/damage which, eventually, manifests itself as overheating. People propose this sequence of events as opposed to overheating causing damage. The cooler, if all of this is true, is not used to cool an already damaged tranny but to avoid it becoming damaged in the first place. One quandry is that a non-damaged tranny should be running cool enough (given sufficiently short fluid change intervals) and an additional cooler, run in bypass or parallel, would/could make the tranny run too cool. I am curious to see what my current operating temperatures are if I get to reading and take Tom up on his offer. But I can say that my car takes quite a long time to get to TC lockup temperature in cool, not cold, air temperatures so I don't suspect it is running very hot. Also, each time i have done a drain and refill, the fluid looked pristine and didn't smell any worse than new stinky ATF.
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Tony 1996 Polo Green Subaru SVX LSi, 168,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 5W50 FS (3qt) and 5W30 High Mileage (4qt) Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, Centric Rotors, Power Stop Evolution Carbon Fiber Ceramic Brake Pads 2005 Gray Acura RL, 165,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF with Lubegard Platinum Protectant, Mobil 1 5W20 High Mileage Extended Performance Oil 2009 Red Toyota Venza, 123,XXX, Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage Oil 1992 Red Ferrari 348 ts, 82,XXX, Redline everything Last edited by Huskymaniac; 01-29-2012 at 12:27 AM. |
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