Confirm my problem is Alternator related

[svxcess]

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No offense taken on the knukonceptz wires. I have dealt with them many times and they are a great company. Maniac Electric Motors is also using them for their upraded wiring kits. They also have an ebay store as well, click HERE

The great thing about these wires, besides their performance, is that they are super-flexible. You can route them easily as required and make tight turns. Most 4 gauge wire is hard to do this with in short runs.

Look at my install and the wire from my battery to the fuse and you will see what I mean. Very short and a tight radius turn. By not having to force the wires to bend, there is less strain on the connections. See this photo below and you will see what I mean. (Ignore the AGU fuse inline in this photo, it was replaced with the Mega-fuse)





You can leave the stock connections alone, maybe clean them up and tighten. Since you are adding new ones, current will follow the past of least resistance anyway. That is why I removed the old ground wires.

As far as ring terminals go, they are fine if done properly. I have a hydraulic battery terminal crimper which makes for an extremely solid connection as it crimps evenly around the entire circumference. Pliers and hammers just don't work, as they just flatten and distort the connection




I would test run all of my wires, cut them to length and have a good battery shop do the crimps for you. Before installing the terminals, slide some adhesive-lined shrink tubing over the wire and then put on the connectors and then seal the connection. If you take your time and do it right, you only have to do it once.

A final word on fuse holders. Keep it simple and compact. You do not have a lot of space in the engine compartment to mount them in the proper location. The ones like you have shown above are fine for installs on stereo circuits and amps where you have a lot of room in the trunk or under the seats to play with. Stick with the Mega-fuse holder. Designed to be used under the hood and withstand higher temps.

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[K_Dub]

Why didn't somebody say I could just call up Maniac and have them add some cable and connectors to my order?

Oh, wait. You did.

I have a friend who's much more mechanically and more so electrically inclined. He used to do custom audio installations, and now is a video engineer for a big TV company. I've already drafted his assistance, along with his extensive tool collection in doing the work. I just needed to scrape together the parts.

Thanks again.

[K_Dub]

Update #2.

Finally tore into it a bit today. Found a bunch of brittle, twenty year old plastic including an alternator plug with exposed wire and insulation that came off in my hand. A quick search revealed this thread. I'm just gonna take SVXCESS's advice this time and hit up Electric Motor Services. I'll call tomorrow and see if they've all been snagged up.

The parts list is stacking up. My signature is becoming a self fulfilling prophecy. I checked out the Monster battery terminals while I was out yesterday; that chintzy g'abage ain't goin under my hood. A 220K mile car doesn't need no gold plated battery terminals.

Anything else I should look out for? When I saw that cable I searched the forum and found a two month old tech thread on that very part. I don't always read the tech forums, because I don't have much I can add, but I know everything that my car throws at me has happened here before. I appreciate the help I've gotten despite the apparent redundancy of my requests. I wish I had something to add to the perfect intake/exhaust thread but the forum is always a big help to me.

[svxcess]

Originally Posted by K_Dub

Update #2.

Finally tore into it a bit today. Found a bunch of brittle, twenty year old plastic including an alternator plug with exposed wire and insulation that came off in my hand.

That is quite common. The power wires that connect to the top of the alternator, as well as the wires that connect to the alternator plug) really deteriorate over the years with high underhood temps, resulting in failing insulation and corrosion

You have to cut them back quite a ways back to find where they become flexible again. I just cut the plug wires back as far as I could and replaced them.

One of the two white wires from the power terminal on the top of the alternator is what supplies the battery. You can see how much smaller it is compared with new 4 gauge. When new twenty years ago, the wires were adequate for the needs of the SVX. Over the years, heat and corrosion and deterioration has inhibited its original ability to carry current efficiently; hence the need for the wiring upgrade. The same is true of grounds.


You can buy the alternator plug with a short length of wire attached directly from Electric Motor Service in Logan, WV. Their phone number is 800- 697-6070

The part number is 050-012252 and they go for $9.53 each plus shipping with no minimum. I already ordered two more.

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[dragoontwo]

SVXcess, would you(or anyone) happen to know the length on the ground wire that runs to the back of the motor? I'd like to replace it, too. It looks like 4ga.

I also think my alternator is on its way out. The indicator lights on the dash pulsate sometimes, and the headlights will do the same. The voltage output is between 12-13v, but something isn't right. I've got 2 cores to trade in for a new one.

[kwren]

Originally Posted by dragoontwo

The voltage output is between 12-13v, but something isn't right.

Something isn't right??
I think you are on to something... The output voltage isn't right!

Keith

[K_Dub]

My alternator shipped yesterday and should show up tomorrow. I ordered the alt plug and am having it shipped overnight. I just spent a penny on a SPT tiedown for no good reason at all, but it is light. I wish they still made the Prodrive one.

All that's left for the shopping list is some more cable/connectors, a new battery tray and posts, and some cleaning products for when I get back in there.

[Cam]

In regards to the "trick" I use to dignose alternators:

"For good reason there is no evidence that a faultybattery connection while the engine is running creates problems.

As designed, the regulator utilizes a separate sensing wire. This wire terminates at the distribution panel and therefore remains connected, even if the battery lead is disconnected.

As a result the regulator output continues to be monitored and output is controlled, regardless of how when or why the actual
battery connection is broken.

The object is to directly monitor the line voltage rather than battery voltage and in this way voltage
drop is accounted for."

I have posted this without permission of the contact that provided the information, so unless he would like to chime in, it will remain an anonymous source. However, it is reason enough for me to continue doing my process for diagnosing alternator problems.

Although, I do usually use a multimeter to better understand the issue. If the voltage regulator is failing and the alternator is putting off too much current, then disconnecting the battery will not change anything. But if the alternator is providing too little current, it will cause the car to stall out.

[dragoontwo]

Originally Posted by kwren

Something isn't right??
I think you are on to something... The output voltage isn't right!

Keith

Yep. Something isn't right. My memory really sucks. I have 13.8v running at idle. Gear indicator light pulsating, and if you turn the blinker on, the gear indicator dims each time it blinks.

[svxcess]

Originally Posted by dragoontwo

Yep. Something isn't right. My memory really sucks. I have 13.8v running at idle. Gear indicator light pulsating, and if you turn the blinker on, the gear indicator dims each time it blinks.

My electrical system is working flawlessly. I use a high-end digital voltmeter to keep an eeye on things. My cold startup voltage is 14.2-14.3G. After about 15 minutes of driving, this drops down to 13.8V, which is acceptable for a "hot" state.

The turn signal circuit uses about 0.2V when flashing, returning to normal in-between flashes. If my normal voltage is 13.8V, it will drop to 13.6V when flashing and return to 13.8V between flashes. It is normal for the voltage drop to occur and then the alternator continues to replace what was used.

If you run your fan on low or medium speed, can you hear the change in speed while operating the turn signals?

Are you running the wiring upgrade or just stock wiring?

.

[dragoontwo]

I have the upgraded wiring. I was just noting though that the dash and headlights pulsate, and its kind of annoying. It happens at idle, and when driving. No signals or braking is needed to make this happen.

[svxcess]

Originally Posted by dragoontwo

I have the upgraded wiring. I was just noting though that the dash and headlights pulsate, and its kind of annoying. It happens at idle, and when driving. No signals or braking is needed to make this happen.

This may be because of the alternating current from the alternator in forward and reverse pulses. These will change with engine and alternator RPM, so the pulses are slower at idle when the fault lamps will have time to die between each pulse, and the flashing effect can more readily be seen.

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[oab_au]

Originally Posted by Cam

In regards to the "trick" I use to dignose alternators:

"For good reason there is no evidence that a faultybattery connection while the engine is running creates problems.

As designed, the regulator utilizes a separate sensing wire. This wire terminates at the distribution panel and therefore remains connected, even if the battery lead is disconnected.

As a result the regulator output continues to be monitored and output is controlled, regardless of how when or why the actual
battery connection is broken.

The object is to directly monitor the line voltage rather than battery voltage and in this way voltage
drop is accounted for."

I have posted this without permission of the contact that provided the information, so unless he would like to chime in, it will remain an anonymous source. However, it is reason enough for me to continue doing my process for diagnosing alternator problems.

Although, I do usually use a multimeter to better understand the issue. If the voltage regulator is failing and the alternator is putting off too much current, then disconnecting the battery will not change anything. But if the alternator is providing too little current, it will cause the car to stall out.

Cam you and our "anonymous source" are right in the way the reg is connected to the system. It is also right that your way of testing for a faulty alternator was the normal way, in years gone by, but with the amount of electronic components that are now prolific in autos, we can no longer continue to do this.

The problem is not that the battery, is dsconnected from the system, it is the instant of disconnecting the battery, that the high voltage danger occurs.

If the alternator is changing the battery, say 20 amps at 13 Volts (20A x 13V is 250 watts) when it is disconnected and the current stops flowing, the voltage will rise to 260 Volts till the alternators energy is dissipated. It will be only Mille seconds, but it can damage any electronic units that are hit by this voltage.

You may get away with doing 'the test' if the alternator charge is very low, but the average Joe may not realize this, and do damage to their cars electrical system by doing this test.

Harvey.

[Cam]

What makes the current rise to 260 volts? I agree that it may rise, but where did you get that number?

[oab_au]

Originally Posted by Cam

What makes the current rise to 260 volts? I agree that it may rise, but where did you get that number?

When the alternator is producing 20 amps at 13 volts it is producing 260 watts. If we decrease the amps the voltage will increase, to still equal the 260 watts that the alt is generating. I explained this in Svxcess Alternator thread here:
http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/show...6&postcount=27

Harvey.