President Bush must have failed math

[sicksubie]

First of all, if you don't vote... Shut the heck up... period... Second of all I love how everyone is trying to blame Bush for everything. I am currently double majoring in school. One in finance and the other in economics. The "recession" that we were in first of all started before Bush even took office and second of all by definition it wasn't even a recession, but rather a slow down in growth. These morons that are on here talking about the DOW as if that is what measures our economy and the economic well-being of our nation's citizens don't have a clue. Also, Clinton had TWO opportunities to get Bin Laden while he was aboard a tanker in the Golf of Aden. Two Seal teams were deployed and en-route to intercept the ship when Clinton called it off. Explain that one.
As far as Iraq goes: I have three of my best friends over there. Two in the Army and one in the Marines. They were in the front lines at the very beginning and have been in many tight situations. My friend that is a Marine is in a specialized recon unit and during the course of one of their missions he lost several guys and yet (he's back now) when he tells me stories he talks about the horrific things he's seen, but he also talks about the positives. No one over here can sit and watch George Stephanopolous, Peter Jennings (dead now), or any of the other left-leaning news people and take what they say for the gospel truth. How do they know that the majority of the Iraqi population does not support us? They don't. There are dumb people (I'm trying to be kind, really I am) who will take what these anchors say as 100% true. There are people over there who don't like us at all, but the majority of the Iraqi population DOES support us. The major media outlets won't report the good that goes on, but rather they want to cover anything that puts Bush in a bad light. Why? Because bad publicity sells.
I could keep going but I gotta head over to the gym for soccer practice. I'll let some other people put their 2 cents in and I'll write some more later

[Electrophil]

Let me check to see if I have 2 pennies.

Yep! Found a couple.

As Swartzy says... I'll be back.

[RojoRocket]

sicksubie, hmmmm, only "idiot" I see posting about the Dow in this thread is you. Interesting to see how much a 19 year old "knows" about the world in which we all live. A personal attack I regret on this board, but one becomes tired of indulged and "entitled" children scoffing at the "other side" while the middle class in this country take it on the chin.

C'mon folks, wake up! Labeling the media "left leaning" while more and more of it comes under the control of fewer and fewer power mongerers who would have you believe that the TV is all you need to know what's going on is ignorance. Scapegoating the "lazy" who find themselves in need of assistance from those of us more fortunate; letting the necklace wearing drug dealers draw your attention away from those that are on assistance because they need to be? Who's tactics are these?

We, the American people have allowed themselves to become complacent, and it's easy to blame those of us with no power for the situation.

Yes, I voted. And voting is about more than being on the "winning side" while we all lose in the long run. Those families who have lost loved ones in Iraq and wondered why. Those of our elder generation being squeezed out of adequate medical care and medications while the drug companies become fat, and powerful enough to have lobbyists in the capital that far outnumber our "representatives", and wield the money to gain their ear, while you and I can't should make you wonder where it ends.

Now the "Administration" wants to hand over control of 6 major ports to a company controlled by UAE interests, and threatens to veto any efforts to stop it. Now, I feel all warm and fuzzy. Do you?

Glenn

[Manarius]

Originally Posted by Electrophil

Speaking of tolerance... South Dakota today presented a bill to ban all abortions with the only exception of mothers in danger of dying. The purpose is clear. They want it to be challenged until it reaches the supreme court. When it does, a new precedent will over-ride Roe Vs Wade for our country. I'm 44, and could care less about abortion personally. But my gosh... let the free people in our society make up their own minds!!

Finally, someone who knows Politics like I do. I've been saying this since Alito was confirmed. There's been news of people getting ready to light abortion fires for months now. They trust that the ACLU will fight it the whole way to the Supreme Court.

[/hijack]

[sicksubie]

Just so you know I am paying for my school entirely by myself. No parents, no government aide (loans or other forms), by myself. I started my own exterior remodeling company the summer after my senior year in high school. I wanted to fill out the FAFSA trust me. It would make my life a lot easier, but it would also contradict my principles.
As far as the DOW goes maybe you should read all the posts before saying anything that way you will know what you are posting about. Someone early on said how the DOW was over 11,ooo when Bush took office and implied that it has nose-dived since because of him.
Do not start going into age.. There are many old people who have no idea how nations and economies interact today and how international policies can affect things at home and abroad. I recognize that I'm 19 and have a TON of stuff to learn both in my remaining years in school and then in the world after graduation. So leave the age out.
Last thing before I go... The media in general is not a fan of Bush and jumps at the opportunity to bash him, in the mean time they protected Clinton to the end. I'm not saying that everyone is like that but it is getting more difficult to find unbiased and accurate news.

[RojoRocket]

Kudos to you for carrying your own load, and BOO's to me for making a rather stupid assumption. My apologies for that. I was just sitting down to edit out those comments after thinking about them over dinner. I did read back over the posts and must have missed that one reference.
I had honestly done my best not to post on this thread, as the current situation in the country so saddens and angers me. Again, please accept my apology.

Glenn

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by Manarius

Finally, someone who knows Politics like I do. I've been saying this since Alito was confirmed. There's been news of people getting ready to light abortion fires for months now. They trust that the ACLU will fight it the whole way to the Supreme Court.

[/hijack]

Thanks for compliment! The bad news is, the ACLU has no choice but to challenge it. The absense of a challenge is a precedent in itself that the supreme court can use on the next inevitable challenge. Those poor guys with the ACLU see the train wreck coming but are still forced to buy a ticket.

I am shocked that it started happening so soon. Alito just took his walk down the stairs this week. Jeez!

[sicksubie]

I agree with you 100% that the direction that our country is heading in is saddening/ scary. Being 19 (almost 20 ) though does give me one expert opinion that everyone has to believe me and take me seriously on. Being in college today I am surrounded by our country's future. I know that every generation supposedly has it's bad apples, but I look at the kids around me as the ones who I will be sharing and leading this amazing country with and I'm terrified with the ignorance, lack of caring, stupidity (different from ignorance), and just general unpreparedness for the role they are supposed to assume upon graduation. Sometimes war is necessary, as the saying goes, "If you want peace prepare for war". I know that my grandfather's generation rose to the occasion for WWII (both of my grandfathers were at Pearl Harbor), but I really don't know if my generation if pushed hard by a foreign power would rise and fight like my grandfathers did. I think that a lot of this has a lot to do with public education. Public education today is abominable, utterly abominable (at least where I live). I can go into why it's so bad, but that would throw the thread off topic (don't worry it's not the democrat's fault ). The other factor is the unappreciation that pervades our youth. They have no idea what it's like to live anywhere else on earth. They don't understand that those anti-government stickers on their car could get them put in jail/ killed in a lot of other countries. WITH NO TRIAL!!! Oh, and notice that I said, "stickers on the CAR". In how many other countries would high school age kids be driving themselves to school?
The freedoms that we as Americans enjoy here have become so common to us that we have begun to take them for granted. And when that happens only awful things will follow.

[Electrophil]

Sicksubie, the shape of our nation right now is Bush's fault. Completely. From the second part of the Bush senior administration and all the way through Clinton, there was a war going on between the 2 branches on balancing the Budget. 3 times during the Clinton administration, we hit the stopgap date, freezing funds. Ask your professors. It was a huge and long battle, and that is how the good economy gave us that huge surplus.

Bush during this time was down in Texas playing as a owner of the Rangers, thanks to his dad, and probably never noticed. He takes the governorship from Ann Richards during a booming economy with absolutely no experience and rides the good times during the Clinton administration.

These points are important. The work was done. The chance to ease national debt, pay back S.S., etc. was within our grasp. He comes alone with no real experience, and he squandered our surplus, and has thrown us in debt on a level that is worse than our yearly deficit during world war II.

He and Cheney shoved that war down the world's throat. The whole world told us we were crazy. Remember? Notice we are paying for it?

Now that's fine if over 50% of the voters decided to go with Bush instead of a highly decorated Veteran because Bush is ??Stronger??. It doesn't have to make sense... Karl Rove assured it wouldn't. But there must be accountability, and the blame must go to the person who made the decisions.... And that was Bush... It's his fault. We can't be blind about this. Our eyes must be open, and someone is to blame for the budget, and especially that money pit known as Iraq.

[sicksubie]

A highly decorated vet who threw someone else's medals over the fence onto the lawn of the White House during a protest. Yep, Kerry still has his, nicely mounted too might I add. I have been in his office in DC on a couple of occasions and laughed both times I saw them.
Economics.... I love this stuff... Ready? Macro 101... It is a proven fact that a presidential administration reaps the benefits or downfalls of the previous administration. This is due to the size of the American economy and the length of time that it takes for policies to start having what we call their "real affect". The boom in the mid '90's was due to (drum roll, because you are all gonna hate me for this one) the tax-cuts during the Reagan administration. The stagnant economy that we have been experiencing since the last year of the the second Clinton term was due to Clinton's tax increases. Sure, increasing taxes might make us look good on paper at first in regards to paying for social security, medicare, and the national debt and other stuff like that, but higher taxes eventually kill total tax revenue taken in by the government. This is why we are running on such a large deficit right now (yes the war does have an affect too). Also, you must know that this is congress's issue. Congress holds the purse strings. To say that Bush squandered our surplus or that Bush increased our national debt is to wallow in ignorance.


P.S. Who had control of Congress during the Clinton administration that enabled our country to attain a surplus???

[sicksubie]

P.S. For anybody who cares there is some pretty cool info coming out. The government is so far behind in it's numbers and data that there is a possibility that not only are we no longer operating in a trade deficit, but actually a trade surplus. I need to do some research, but I think that this would be the first time in a very long time that our country would be on the positive side of this. This could result in a major economic swing in the next two-three years in our favor.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by sicksubie

P.S. For anybody who cares there is some pretty cool info coming out. The government is so far behind in it's numbers and data that there is a possibility that not only are we no longer operating in a trade deficit, but actually a trade surplus. I need to do some research, but I think that this would be the first time in a very long time that our country would be on the positive side of this. This could result in a major economic swing in the next two-three years in our favor.

oh n0s!!1! you're wrong! Evil Bush spent all our money so he could play cowboy and get cheeper oils.

[sicksubie]

DISCLAIMER: This is a joke... If you take this seriously you have issues.

Question: How do you tell the difference between Democrats, Republicans And Southern Republicans?

The answer can be found by posing the following question:

You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small children. Suddenly, an Islamic Terrorist
with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, praises Allah, raises
the knife, and charges at you. You are carrying a Glock cal 40, and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family.

What do you do?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Democrat's Answer:

Well, that's not enough information to answer the question!

Does the man look poor! Or oppressed?

Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack?

Could we run away?

What does my wife think?

What about the kids?

Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knockthe knife out of his hand?

What does the law say about this situation?

Does the Glock have appropriate safety built into it?

Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society and to my children?

Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me?

Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me?

If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me?

Should I call 9-1-1?

Why is this street so deserted?

We need to raise taxes, have a paint and weed day and make this happier, healthier street that would discourage such behavior.

This is all so confusing! I need to debate this with some friends for few days and try to come to a consensus.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Republican's Answer:

BANG!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Southern Republican's Answer:

BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
BANG! click.....(sounds of reloading).

BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
BANG! click

Daughter: "Nice grouping, Daddy! Were those the Winchester Silver Tips or Hollow Points that I bought you for your birthday?"

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by sicksubie

A highly decorated vet who threw someone else's medals over the fence onto the lawn of the White House during a protest. Yep, Kerry still has his, nicely mounted too might I add. I have been in his office in DC on a couple of occasions and laughed both times I saw them.
Economics.... I love this stuff... Ready? Macro 101... It is a proven fact that a presidential administration reaps the benefits or downfalls of the previous administration. This is due to the size of the American economy and the length of time that it takes for policies to start having what we call their "real affect". The boom in the mid '90's was due to (drum roll, because you are all gonna hate me for this one) the tax-cuts during the Reagan administration. The stagnant economy that we have been experiencing since the last year of the the second Clinton term was due to Clinton's tax increases. Sure, increasing taxes might make us look good on paper at first in regards to paying for social security, medicare, and the national debt and other stuff like that, but higher taxes eventually kill total tax revenue taken in by the government. This is why we are running on such a large deficit right now (yes the war does have an affect too). Also, you must know that this is congress's issue. Congress holds the purse strings. To say that Bush squandered our surplus or that Bush increased our national debt is to wallow in ignorance.


P.S. Who had control of Congress during the Clinton administration that enabled our country to attain a surplus???

Well, I must be wallowing chin deep in ignorance then. All this time I thought I was of at least average intelligence and able to logically determine facts. I mean I'm retired military, I have a degree in Electrical Engineering (No gambling jokes on the University of Nevada, thank you. ) I read newsweek, Time, US news and world report. I watch Fox, CNN, and al jazeera. Honestly, I really do, every day. I am a news fanactic, and even though I yell at the TV a lot when I watch Fox, I do so every day. I especially watch Oreilly, just because I despise that blow hard so badly.

The Budget wars were due to a Democratic president, and a republican congress. The wars were due to the republican's new found enjoyment in spending. This can't be denied. The proof of this came when both branches turned republican, and spending immediately spiraled out of control. This is also in black and white with the OMB. It can't be denied and placed in the spin box. The normal lag in federal laws is 3 years or less. Due to Clinton's oral sex fiasco, he couldn't pass gas in his last year or so in office, and the economy began to founder in April, 2001.

I agree tax cuts are great, and they do stimulate the economy. Heck, so does war. But if the money goes to the wealthy elite, it's useless. They aren't going to spend it as the middle class would. Us married folks got a check for $600 as our tax cut. I think I paid in around $5,300 that year. Not bad... 10%. But is it really enough to stimulate the economy if we all go out and buy a set of tires? The majority of the tax cut went to people so wealthy, they barely have to capability to spend the extra windfall. And the breakdown on who got the cut is on the OMB's website. It's not democratic spin.

I agree with you on the lag. A bunch of us have went through macro 101, since it is a required core class for all majors. And I kinda remember it, about how inflation benefits the wealthy for they are the recipients of the extra cash in our society., and the first also to benefit on downturns.

The stock market is the result of three major happenings in 2001. 1: The bursting of the internet bubble. 2: The "correction" that occurred due to 9/11, and 3) the start of tightening of money by the federal reserve. I'll give you this one. But the outrageous spending by this administration is making money so tight, and inflation barely in check, that the Federal reserve is upping rates on an almost monthly basis. This is Bush's fault for destroying our surplus by giving us a 'free set of tires." Now come on..... was it worth it when looking at that big "macro" picture.

Now I'm not a big fan of welfare. I think the system has been systematically abused throughout it's history since the democratic new deal began. But I do see it's purpose for a family/individual needing subsistance until they get back on their feet after a catastrophy in their lives. (Which range from Katrina, to the loss of a job to oversea vendors, etc.)

Clinton pushed through an addendum that mandated a ... I think 3? year policy. You can get a free check for 3 or so years, and you are out! That always seemed justifiable, extremely fair, and workable to give a person more than ample time to get back up and brush themselves off.

This is more than Bush has done with welfare, which is nothing. His plan is to get a few measely bucks..... which horrendously pales in comparison to money spent in Iraq, out of medicare. I was under the impression our sacret senior citizens are off limits. But since the money is now gone to fix it, where can he go without hurting big business?

If you are rich, power to you. The republican party exists only due to our mindset that we will all be rich one day. But if you are middle class.... we are screwed. And it's going to continuously get worse.

I say if you own a Mercedes, you are going to pay more on maintenance, insurance, taxes, and payments for that car vice a yugo. Our country should work the same way. If you are stinkeen' rich, you should pay a premium for living the american dream. Bush is just too wrapped up cuttin firewood to figure this basic fact out.

[sicksubie]

This is gonna open a whole can of worms, but shoot. The wealthy pay more in taxes so they get more back. Plain and simple. If someone pays 10,000 in taxes they will get back more than you who spent 5,300 in taxes. Don't complain that it's the wealthy that are getting it. A lot of the wealthy people in America worked very hard to get where they are today ( a lot simply fell into it by luck also).
1.Spending up until the Iraqi war had slowed down by I believe 4% under Bush.
2.Inflation benefits NO ONE!!!
3.You should not become a modern day Robin Hood stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. That is entirely unconstitutional If you are rich chances are you already live in a larger house (more property tax) drive nicer cars (higher excise tax and maintenance costs) travel more (tons of taxes there) along with paying taxes on your dividends and returns from investments (MAJOR economic stimulus).
4.The time frame, if you want specifics, is generally 5 1/2-6 1/2 years before the results of economic policies are seen( unless it is some major weeping change).

I gotta go here I have class in 6hours. I didn't have time to thoroughly read your post, Phil. I just scanned it. So sorry if I misinterpreted anything in my hasty response.