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  #31  
Old 03-22-2002, 08:16 AM
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Re: MacTrevor?

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Originally posted by svxistentialist
A Mac user? And we thought Aredubjay was a rebel?

I like the look of those new frosty iMacs myself, might get one. PC people all scream, "you won't get software", but they probably mean computer games by this, they are a nerdy self-abusive lot.

Me, I just want to type stuff and have it handle, manage and organise my graphic files and business files. I believe the Macs are a whizz at that.

BTW, Chris can give you the gen on the genesis of this site. He built it by hisself, great respect and gratitude due. You can find his profile under Members, send him an email, he will fill you in on how it kicked off.

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Macintosh - the SVX of the computer world.

That business about software is such a red herring, except maybe for games, as you mention. But, BFD, I don't need a collection of hundreds of games, anyway.

Sure wish I could afford one of the new G4s, especially after the past few weeks of struggling with our Compag POS Windowbox at home.
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  #32  
Old 03-22-2002, 06:20 PM
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Trnas. Temp. Gauge

Hi Bill,

I notice from your profile that you are running a transmission temperature gauge. I have thought about fitting one but wondered if it is worthwhile. Your comments would be appreciated.

What temp. readings have you observed while driving under various conditions? I would expect the readings to be informative as well as interesting.

Thanks in anticipation, Trevor.
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  #33  
Old 03-23-2002, 12:29 AM
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Missing James

James,

We miss you in this "Welcome" thread but know you have been busy. I and no doubt others, will sincerely hope you are not under undue pressure and that you will soon join us. However take what time you need as you have earned a break.

Meantime best wishes, Trevor.
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  #34  
Old 03-23-2002, 08:53 AM
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Re: Trnas. Temp. Gauge

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Originally posted by Trevor
Hi Bill,

I notice from your profile that you are running a transmission temperature gauge. I have thought about fitting one but wondered if it is worthwhile. Your comments would be appreciated.

What temp. readings have you observed while driving under various conditions? I would expect the readings to be informative as well as interesting.

Thanks in anticipation, Trevor.
Yes, I think it is worthwhile. I have the B&M kit that includes the filter, and plumbed it inline with the existing cooler, and ahead of it.

During the winter and cooler months, the readings run between about 70 and 105 deg. C. During the summer, when the ambient temperatures are in the 30 deg. C range, I get higher readings, sometimes over 105 deg. C, and as high as 125 deg C. That's in the yellow warning zone, and in fact, pushing the red danger zone. I particularly see this if I'm driving in town, or climbing. On the flat, at highway speeds, it tends to stay sort of on the edge of the yellow zone. It's enough to convince me that I need to go ahead and install the transmission cooler, which I hope to do before it gets too hot this summer. I'll put the cooler in parallel with the stock cooler, perhaps with a little shut-off valve, in case it keeps the transmission too cool during the winter.

I think the general consensus is that transmission cooler are worth the money, particularly on the earlier models.

Hope this helps
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  #35  
Old 03-23-2002, 08:26 PM
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Thanks for the info. bill,

It will be very interesting indeed to see the actual recorded effect of fitting an extra cooler and when you do so I hope you will post the results. Do you you drive in 3rd. in the city as I do for good reason? Drive is an overdrive and should have been labelled as such.

I have fitted an after market cooler to my 92 but it runs on its own rather than in parallel with the OE. Hydraulics is much like electrical law and when two items are in circuit in parallel configuration the one with the least resistance to flow will pass the greatest volume. This could mean that the OE could remain the major component in the system thus limiting any gain in efficiency. However I do appreciate the safety factor of a parallel arrangement in the event of a blockage. Access to reliable flow specs for each cooler would enable an informed decision but I had nothing on the OEF. The shut off valve you suggest would be a great idea and would provide you with the best of both arrangements and the ability to carry out practical tests. Again the results would be worth reporting.

The trans. specialists I go to are well versed in Subarus and appear to make the right noises technically and as common sense. They have advised not to fit a filter and on the basis of experience.They remove OE filters in many instances when they do an overhaul and extend a guaranty on their work.. Typing for me is arduous otherwise I would explain reasons. If interested come back to me.

A check on my trans, reported all 100% OK. The car is ex Japan and had 100k. Kms. on it when I got it 18 mths ago and all evidence is that it has had no more than routine service to date and it remains faultless. An interesting point is that the power button was seized up through lack of use. I think that abuse and mods have a lot to do with many of the problems reported

Cheers, Trevor,.
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Last edited by Trevor; 03-23-2002 at 08:33 PM.
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  #36  
Old 03-24-2002, 04:26 AM
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Re: Re: Trnas. Temp. Gauge

Quote:
Originally posted by svxter


Yes, I think it is worthwhile. I have the B&M kit that includes the filter, and plumbed it inline with the existing cooler, and ahead of it.

I'll put the cooler in parallel with the stock cooler, perhaps with a little shut-off valve, in case it keeps the transmission too cool during the winter.

I think the general consensus is that transmission cooler are worth the money, particularly on the earlier models.

Hope this helps
Hi Bill, long time no see.

I am about to rebuild my tranny for the second time in a year. This time I will apply my normal belt and two pairs of braces approach. I have bought, but not yet fitted, the B&M like yours. Had not planned to put in a valve like you suggest, but am tempted to install a temperature sensing one.

However, one of the reasons I bought the B&M is it already has a system to allow the oil to reach operating temperature. While the oil is cold and more viscous, it bypasses a lot of the cooling ducts and returns to the tranny via the wide channels beyond the cooler stages. When the oil heats and thins up, it flows through more cooler sections, does not get as far as the relief chanells.

Trevor, your point on filters is interesting. There is a filter of a sort in the oil pan, magnetic to pick up swarf. However, the reason most add filters to the early models is to stop damaged friction components from the overheating tranny getting as far as the OE cooler. The early cars, 91 to 93-4 I think, had a turbolator in the inlet of the oil cooler. This was designed to create turbulent flow and get the oil cooling better on its trip through the cooler[you will already know the potential problem of laminar flow, with the oil in the centre of the channel through the cooler not being positively cooled at all]

The problem arose when friction materials start to deposit on this turbolator. This restricts and gradually closes the inlet, so after a number of overheats, the oil is getting very little flow through the cooler.

94 upgraded rad does not have this turbolator. I made a query here a year ago along the lines you mention Trevor, the oil will travel the path of least resistance. I was worried that putting in a parallel set-up would reduce the pressure at the pump and adversely affect flow rates. Nobody gave me an empirical answer, but I am satisfied that no-one with a parallel cooler has had noticable problems. My opinion on this is, most of the early OE coolers are almost completely blocked, and the additional cooler does all the work.

Joe
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  #37  
Old 03-25-2002, 03:44 AM
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Joe,

ÒNobody gave me an empirical answerÓ

There is a lot of here say in many of the recommendations I am sure and very little before and after proper testing hence my interest in the possibility of temp. readings from Bill.

You say that you are about to rebuild your transmission for the second time in a year and this amazes me. What components have failed or are failing.? The guys I go to are unable to understand what I tell them I read on this network and say they would be out of business if their overhauled units gave trouble within the time and mileage span so many report.

They always fit a cooler to cars which do a lot of city running ( Taxis have this done as a matter of routine ) as well as any that do any towing. Their approach to the external filter takes the following experience into account which comes down to two different types of owner.

Number one the conscientious type has his transmission serviced regularly so that a filter is not a necessity with the internal strainer doing all that is required. i.e. picking up any large debris which could damage bearings etc. Regular fluid changes takes care of fine residue. If in fact there is any immediate investigation is called for. In the case of overheating this should be fixed with a cooler, not a filter fitted to pick up friction material being deposited as a result of the problem.

If the car falls into the hands of the second class of owner trouble is in the offing more particularly if an external fine filter is flitted. Owner number two abuses his car as a driver and neglects servicing and fluid changes with the result that fine contaminate builds up. In these cases of neglect they find that fine debris blocks an external filter before any problem would have occurred with the cooler blocking, so that the filter becomes the cause rather than a preventer. In the case of later model subarus they remove the external filter after doing an overhaul to prevent this happening a second time.

They could have made more money from the job they did for me by fitting a filter but strongly advised against it on the basis of their experience and I agreed with the logic they presented. At the same time they were emphatic in their advice to use 3rd when driving at less than 80 KPH which I had already decided made good sense in view of the cars tall final drive ratio. Constant hunting up and down in traffic must give the transmission hell and I would not be surprised if this is not a basic problem. Drive should have been labeled O/D and 3rd. D.

I will await your comments and observations with interest.

Trevor.
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  #38  
Old 03-25-2002, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Trevor
Joe,


I will await your comments and observations with interest.

Trevor.
Trevor, you are reiterating what many people here have been saying for ages, John Hoffman in particular. He maintains the life of the transmission is in the changing of the oil[particularly if it has overheated] as soon as required.

As for owner profile, I would be category one, I am fastidious about oil changes and service intervals. However, I readily admit my rebuild so soon is not typical, I will tell you why.

My tranny was faulty when I imported the car, it was stuck in third gear all the time. The only place where it could be overhauled by Subaru affiliated technicians is Glasgow, 300miles and a ferry ride and a foreign country away. Oh, and £2500 away also. When eventually it stopped, I had sourced a second-hand tranny from England. This was a '96 one and my car is '91. Because of some casing changes to the carcase, my Dublin fitter and I decided to transplant the innards of the '96 into my '91. This worked well, first time I had driven the car with all forward gears. However, the '96 box was already part worn. After 3-4 months, the brake band went, I am left with only 1st and 3rd.

I am very interested in the theory of filter clogging Vs driver profile and usage. My own commute is 50kms each way per day, city traffic. Can be done in 25 mins each way if no traffic. At the time I have to travel, 8 AM and 5PM, it takes one and a half hours each way. This means the car is sitting in queues for over an hour morning and evening. That is why I changed from the Toyota Camry to the automatic, my left leg was developing a limp from declutching all the time.

While agreeing the transmission deserves respect and care, I have long disagreed with what I would call conservative mechanical opinion on this board. This opines if you don't harass the tranny, give it lots of expensive oil, and drive and service like a saint, then there is no problem, and you won't have to keep rebuilding. The implication is that Subaru built a wonderful and robust car, and the problem is with the drivers and their lack of care or empathy for the mechanicals.

I beg to differ. There are plenty of cars around with more weight, more torque, more power, and still driven by automatic boxes. I mean the likes of the Merc S class, the Audi A8, Tiptronic Porsches, 7 Series BMWs. We don't hear of the trannies in these cars doing a regular meltdown, because their manufacturers typically over-engineer the products, or at least ensure they are fit to perform the task for which they were designed and sold.

We also have a manual Honda Civic Vtec. At times, on a spin, I have driven it to the rev limiter, [vtec only comes in 5500+], to the limit of it's traction and cornering ability, yet within the limit of mechanical abuse. Has the clutch fried or the gearbox disintegrated? No way Jose. Drive your SVX that way, three to six months tranny. I rest my rant.

Joe
BTW, by coincidence all the marques I quoted above are German. Our Rising Sons still have a thing or two to learn about mechanical integrity I think.
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  #39  
Old 03-25-2002, 07:28 PM
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Trevor

I will be glad to post any other data that I might obtain, once the cooler is in place.

Your point about the possible restriction of flow is well taken. I may devise some way to bypass the filter portion, and see what that does.

Yes, I routinely drive in 3rd when I'm in town. And, I agree with Joe about the necessity of staying on top of fluid changes.

Hello to you, Joe. It has been a while since we chatted. Sorry to hear that your transmission woes are not completely abated. Hope this time around does it.
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  #40  
Old 03-26-2002, 01:40 AM
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Amen
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  #41  
Old 03-26-2002, 05:29 AM
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Joe, Bill,

Yes I know what you are saying regarding it should be able to take what the customer hands out but there must be a level of abuse agreed on. From a reliability point of view the best cars I have owned have been made in Japan and the worst in Italy and France.

While I am on this subject-- are SVXÕs sold in the US imported completely assembled ready for the road or is some assembly done locally and if so how much?

Cheers guys, Trevor.
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  #42  
Old 03-26-2002, 07:55 AM
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Trevor

To the best of my (limited) knowledge, all the SVXs sold in the US were completely assembled at the plant in Gunma, Japan. I was under the impression that was the case for all SVXs; that no assembly was done elsewhere. Of course, I could be mistaken in this. Perhaps someone who has better information than I will speak up.
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  #43  
Old 03-26-2002, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by svxter
Trevor

To the best of my (limited) knowledge, all the SVXs sold in the US were completely assembled at the plant in Gunma, Japan. I was under the impression that was the case for all SVXs; that no assembly was done elsewhere. Of course, I could be mistaken in this. Perhaps someone who has better information than I will speak up.
is my understanding too Bill. Paul Emley who works in Gunma concurs with this.

Subarus did not become popular here in Ireland & England until the Impreza started winning the WRC. Long before this, I am aware that they were revered Down Under as work-horses, rather like we would view the original Toyota Land Cruiser here.

Don't get me wrong Trevor, we are running two Japanese cars at home right now, and my present experience would not put me off buying another.

However, it is my honest opinion that when Subaru designed the SVX, they damned it by the fitment of what I regard as a choclate automatic transmission. The tranny is tuned to make long, slurred imperceptable shifts that add greatly to the temperatures imposed. Add to this the likelihood that old fogies like me buy them for city traffic because of stop-start conditions, the worst possible environment Add to this, the fact that the 3.3 flat six is one of the most torquey engines going. Add again to this the fact that all wheel drive electronics won't allow any of the power to break traction at the tyres and relieve pressure on the box. Disaster waiting to happen.

This Trevor, is what I mean by under-engineered. The car is a wonderful piece of kit, nothing quite like it. The gearbox as fitted is not up to the use the car will normally be put to. I don't rally drive my car, nor do I circuit race it nor autocross it. But if I buy a fast car, I should be secure in the knowledge that I can drive that car fast from time to time without a major component failing.

Randy will agree with me here, Subaru emotionally disowned the car long time ago when it became apparent that the original fitment gearbox was an original sin. You and me keep paying in hard cash for the sins of the fathers.

Joe
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  #44  
Old 03-26-2002, 09:00 AM
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Not bad enough I write over-long posts, they have to post up twice.

Was I modifying an SVX for more power, I would strongly consider using the WRX or possibly the Skyline manual box to take the strain.

This of course is not what I bought the car for. To keep it in character, I would much prefer to add a Porsche 4wd Tiptronic box to it, in place of the chocolate Aisan unit we now have.

Maybe somone on the modifications forum would pioneer this for us? Any takers??

Joe
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  #45  
Old 03-26-2002, 09:23 AM
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Yes, Joe, I concur that Subaru has virtually orphaned the SVX. This became glaringly apparent when I ordered the last two rear center panel gaskets in the U.S. Can you imagine? In the entire country -- with no idea WHEN more will arrive. This is a grave concern to me. We can hardly afford the parts, but, we can ill afford for the supply to dry up.

Meanwhile, gentlemen, you realize, you can add more threads to this forum.
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