Subaru and GM part company - Page 2

benebob · #16 10-09-2005, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow248

We'll see won't we?

Seeing as GM's "pushrod eating" engines are outperforming Toyota's engines in both power and economy, one could argue quite effectively that GM has little need for change in that department.

BTW - 32 valves make alot more noise than 16. That's a matter of physics.

Outperforming is debatable as CAFE standards for mileage are about as accurate as determining mileage with craps. Yeah phyisics say 32 valves will be louder but that doesn't mean the engine doesn't sound better.

How much money did GM loose last year? How much did Toyota make? Who had the newest product line? Oh and GMs best MPG vehicle is the Aveo which gets all of 35mpg (one better than I can finagle my XT6 to get on the highway. Toyota has 4 vehicles that exceed that not including the prius and 2 more that match it.

benebob · #17 10-09-2005, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

Subaru wants the hybrid technology.

Why only idiots buy into it. Its much worse enviromental and more expensive then a conventional set up.

Shadow248 · #18 10-09-2005, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benebob

Outperforming is debatable as CAFE standards for mileage are about as accurate as determining mileage with craps.

This seems to be the formula on this site:

- I make a claim that someone doesn't like
- they ask for proof
- I provide it
- source is called into question

If you are going to do this everytime, i'm not going to bother. If you really feel that way, then why are we arguing about this? Niether side will be able to prove anything, because ANY source is faultable. Especially in this subject area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by benebob

Yeah phyisics say 32 valves will be louder but that doesn't mean the engine doesn't sound better.

I can't argue your opinion. If that's the way you feel, great. But to me, a multi-valve engine just cannot produce the amazing exhaust note that a 2-valver can. That is, of course, a matter of opinion.

How much money did GM loose last year?

Alot.

How much did Toyota make?

Alot.

Who had the newest product line?

Debatable. Seeing as GM makes about 4x the nameplates that Toyota does.

I'm curious as to what the point of the above questions was.

Quote:

Originally Posted by benebob

Oh and GMs best MPG vehicle is the Aveo which gets all of 35mpg (one better than I can finagle my XT6 to get on the highway. Toyota has 4 vehicles that exceed that not including the prius and 2 more that match it.

Big frikin deal. So they can make a car that gets great gas mileage. Anyone can do that. Try getting an entire product line to get good gas mileage. Now that's something to brag about. GM's truck engines not only have the most power in their class (line-wide) but also boast higher average gas mileage than any other light truck maker. Now that's actually an accomplishment.

Landshark · #19 10-09-2005, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow248

But to me, a multi-valve engine just cannot produce the amazing exhaust note that a 2-valver can. That is, of course, a matter of opinion.

GM V6's have the worst exhaust note ever devised. a raspy, hollow, "HAUUUUUGH"

just my opinion, of course.

Shadow248 · #20 10-09-2005, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landshark

GM V6's have the worst exhaust note ever devised. a raspy, hollow, "HAUUUUUGH"

just my opinion, of course.

I feel that way about the 4.6L Mustang engines exhaust. Alot of people tell me i'm crazy, but they sound like they've got nothing above 5000rpm. Just hollowness.

I love the GM V6 note. Sounds closer to a V8 than any other V6 that I know of.

benebob · #21 10-09-2005, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow248

This seems to be the formula on this site:

- I make a claim that someone doesn't like
- they ask for proof
- I provide it
- source is called into question

If you are going to do this everytime, i'm not going to bother. If you really feel that way, then why are we arguing about this? Niether side will be able to prove anything, because ANY source is faultable. Especially in this subject area.

I can't argue your opinion. If that's the way you feel, great. But to me, a multi-valve engine just cannot produce the amazing exhaust note that a 2-valver can. That is, of course, a matter of opinion.

How much money did GM loose last year?

Alot.

How much did Toyota make?

Alot.

Who had the newest product line?

Debatable. Seeing as GM makes about 4x the nameplates that Toyota does.

I'm curious as to what the point of the above questions was.

Big frikin deal. So they can make a car that gets great gas mileage. Anyone can do that. Try getting an entire product line to get good gas mileage. Now that's something to brag about. GM's truck engines not only have the most power in their class (line-wide) but also boast higher average gas mileage than any other light truck maker. Now that's actually an accomplishment.

YNWMT

But funny reading. Maybe you should do some to educate yourself to the automotive world better. GM commercials aren't the best source of information out there.

Shadow248 · #22 10-09-2005, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benebob

Maybe you should do some to educate yourself to the automotive world better. GM commercials aren't the best source of information out there.

That statement is like me telling a dog that he needs to learn how to bark.

Apparently you haven't really payed attention to my past posts. Few people here would argue with the claim that I am pretty well educated about the automotive world. They may argue, however, that my conclusions based on that education are crazy, but then that's a matter of opinion and I don't really care.

YOU, my friend, are the one who needs education.

BTW - most GM commercials suck. I did, however, enjoy the one with the Cobalt picking on the Corvette. I thought that was pretty clever.

Anything else?

Landshark · #23 10-09-2005, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow248

Few people here would argue with the claim that I am pretty well educated about the automotive world.

i'll argue anything.

Quote:

Few people here would argue with the claim that I am pretty well educated about the GM world

fixed!

Quote:

They may argue, however, that my conclusions based on that education are crazy, but then that's a matter of opinion and I don't really care.

<Chike>agreed!</Chike>

NikFu S. · #24 10-09-2005, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benebob

Why only idiots buy into it. Its much worse enviromental and more expensive then a conventional set up.

Why spend any more time on engineering the Scrambler and B11s powerplants (that noone has ever seen) when they can just borrow Toyota's technology?

benebob · #25 10-10-2005, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow248

That statement is like me telling a dog that he needs to learn how to bark.

Apparently you haven't really payed attention to my past posts. Few people here would argue with the claim that I am pretty well educated about the automotive world. They may argue, however, that my conclusions based on that education are crazy, but then that's a matter of opinion and I don't really care.

YOU, my friend, are the one who needs education.

BTW - most GM commercials suck. I did, however, enjoy the one with the Cobalt picking on the Corvette. I thought that was pretty clever.

Anything else?

No obviously I haven't because obviously you're not well educated about the automotive world as you still drive a GM. I've spent quite a few years working in the industry, going to school studying design at what??? An IVY LEAGUE school???? Some of your posts have made sense in the past, this one is soly based on emotion. Personally I like the sound of the Camaro and Firebird but would never own one because I don't have enough chest hair or a big enough gold chain. I guess your chain is a little too tight around you neck.

Weebitob · #26 10-10-2005, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

Why spend any more time on engineering the Scrambler and B11s powerplants (that noone has ever seen) when they can just borrow Toyota's technology?

From what I recall Toyota doesn't have an HO engine. And I question whether Toyota's VVTi can even work with a boxer engine.

Am I the only one that thinks Subaru is better off researching twincharged direct injected diesel technology?

Noir · #27 10-10-2005, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow248

You could say the motivation is open to interpretation. Toyota will not say that they did it to "save GM" (and that's the wrong way to put it even if it IS the truth), but look at Toyota's current position, portfolio and future plans. You will see how much they have to gain by keeping GM around. It does make sense.

That being said, I won't argue that there is undeniable evidence that they decided to raise prices to help GM, only that they did decide to raise prices.

http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/...e_20050730.htm

This could have been their position going into the "price wars", however, on the tail end, I guarantee you Hiroshi Okuda is kicking himself. GM gained almost 5% in market share thanks to their aggressive pricing. The company's stock has stabilized and their aggressive fixed-cost cutting measures will only further the improvement of GM's situation. Seeing as prices of most of GM's lineup will not be returning to their previous levels, Toyota's ever-slowing march on GM may finally come to a halt.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto...175.A8785.html

You know, I'm not too bright...but I don't see how Hiroshi Okuda is kicking himself. Looks like over 60% of their sales increase came from loyal GM fanboi's like yourself. That leaves 30 something percent left of their increase to turning over Toyota loyalists.

I could be wrong, but a friend of mine who's a manager at Enterprise Car Rental told me that they were purchasing more GM vehicles over Toyota...maybe because of price increase? If that's the case for these fleet vehicle purchases, then the margin is shrinking for winning over new customers from Toyota's irongrip in a whooping 2.1% increase.

It seems that not many Toyotas were traded in for new GM's though. Not significanly enough to mention. We won't know the results until the next postings to see if the increase hurt Toyota.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Per your source:
"That Toyota is increasing prices by 1% or so is not unusual at all. It's what they've done every year," said Jesse Toprak, senior analyst at Edmunds.com, a consumer auto-data service in Santa Monica, Calif. "That they are doing this while most competitors are cutting prices is unique."

Toyota, which increased U.S. sales 11% in this year's first half, is raising prices 1.2% on average. GM's first-half sales rose 2.1% because of a 47% surge in June, when it began offering employee discounts to all buyers. Ford Motor Co. and DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group followed that offer this month, while Asian makers such as Toyota haven't matched it.

From your boys at JD Power and Associates:
The Power Information Network trade data shows that in both May and June, more than 60 percent of the vehicles traded in on GM purchases have been GM vehicles. There has also been a mild increase in the number of Ford vehicles being traded in for new GM models.
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AppStateSVX · #28 10-10-2005, 01:54 PM

ok, I know that i'm not going to be alone when I say this, SHUT UP THE STUPID POINTLESS ARGUING - THIS IS NOT THE PLACE FOR IT, if you guys want to pollute the forum with senseless bickering about each other's intelligence pick up your stupid f-----g phone and do it there!

ok, now that I got that out of me, come on guys, be reasonable, the SVX forums are supposed to be to HELP each other, not this

Landshark · #29 10-10-2005, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidnightBlack92

ok, I know that i'm not going to be alone when I say this, SHUT UP THE STUPID POINTLESS ARGUING - THIS IS NOT THE PLACE FOR IT, if you guys want to pollute the forum with senseless bickering about each other's intelligence pick up your stupid f-----g phone and do it there!

ok, now that I got that out of me, come on guys, be reasonable, the SVX forums are supposed to be to HELP each other, not this

and you are?

Noir · #30 10-10-2005, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidnightBlack92

ok, I know that i'm not going to be alone when I say this, SHUT UP THE STUPID POINTLESS ARGUING - THIS IS NOT THE PLACE FOR IT, if you guys want to pollute the forum with senseless bickering about each other's intelligence pick up your stupid f-----g phone and do it there!

ok, now that I got that out of me, come on guys, be reasonable, the SVX forums are supposed to be to HELP each other, not this

there's always the back button.

i'm sure landshark, shadow, and benebob's enjoying the thread. i know i sure am.