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  #1  
Old 01-01-2004, 11:29 AM
NorthwestSVX
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Question What would you be willing to donate for?

Hello Northwest SVXers! Best wishes for a Happy New Year!

The coming year promises to bring some great new SVX adventures to the Northwest as we are planning some great events.

Unfortunately, we have to bring up the subject of donations again. Maybe the previous messages were missed, or maybe it is just a bad time of year to ask. Or maybe there hasn't been enough presented to make it worth a donation.

If that is the case, I'd like to get some ideas from you as to what you feel would be worth your donation, if anything.

Be honest, be creative, there is no such thing as a bad idea, and also I will not take any criticizm personally. Just let me know what you think so I can act or not act accordingly.

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 01-01-2004, 12:43 PM
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ensteele ensteele is offline
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Are we talking about yearly dues? The more members we have, the less they would have to be to get the same amount of money. Do we have a target $ amount that we need per year? That way we can figure out what yearly dues need to be, or what might be suitable.

I will look back at my records to see how many semi active owners we have.

Someone else can jump in here with their thoughts as well.
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1992 Claret LS-L ~196K (05/91) #0831
1992 Pearl LS-L ~103K (06/91) #1680
1992 Pearl LS-L ~151K (06/91) #2229
1992 Dark Teal LS ~150K (07/91) #3098 (parts car)
1992 White LS-L ~139K (08/92) #6913
1993 25th AE ~98K (02/93) #164
1993 25th AE ~58K (02/93) #176
1993 25th AE ~107K (02/93) #215
1993 25th AE ~162K (02/93) #223
1994 Laguna Blue Pearl LSi ~124K (1/94) #2408
1994 Laguna Blue Pearl LSi ~144K (10/93) #1484
1994 Laguna Blue Pearl LSi ~68K (10/93) #1525
1994 Barcelona Red LSi ~46K (02/94) #2624
1994 Pearl LSi ~41K (12/93) #1961
1995 Bordeaux Pearl LSi ~70K (02/95) #855
1996 Polo Green LSi ~95K (03/96) #872
1997 Bordeaux Pearl LSi ~55K (08/96) #097
2003 Brilliant Red LS1 Convertible ~29K (04/03) #8951
1999 Magnetic Red LS1 Coupe ~33K (04/99) #6420

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  #3  
Old 01-01-2004, 05:08 PM
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JENKIN JENKIN is offline
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I'd be happy to pony up, just did not realize there was a membership fee.... I have not partaken of the comraderie of the
nwsvx'ers, but plan to, time permitting. I could handle a $20 fee or so....
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  #4  
Old 01-01-2004, 07:28 PM
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ensteele ensteele is offline
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We have not had a membership fee in the past. That is what Troy is not talking about, so don't feel guilty. The only other membership is with the official organization of the World SVX Network. If you are not farmilar with it, just click on the note of my member number. It will take you to that page. It is not very organized at this time. It is however the way that we pay for this site. If you have any other questions, let me know.
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1992 Claret LS-L ~196K (05/91) #0831
1992 Pearl LS-L ~103K (06/91) #1680
1992 Pearl LS-L ~151K (06/91) #2229
1992 Dark Teal LS ~150K (07/91) #3098 (parts car)
1992 White LS-L ~139K (08/92) #6913
1993 25th AE ~98K (02/93) #164
1993 25th AE ~58K (02/93) #176
1993 25th AE ~107K (02/93) #215
1993 25th AE ~162K (02/93) #223
1994 Laguna Blue Pearl LSi ~124K (1/94) #2408
1994 Laguna Blue Pearl LSi ~144K (10/93) #1484
1994 Laguna Blue Pearl LSi ~68K (10/93) #1525
1994 Barcelona Red LSi ~46K (02/94) #2624
1994 Pearl LSi ~41K (12/93) #1961
1995 Bordeaux Pearl LSi ~70K (02/95) #855
1996 Polo Green LSi ~95K (03/96) #872
1997 Bordeaux Pearl LSi ~55K (08/96) #097
2003 Brilliant Red LS1 Convertible ~29K (04/03) #8951
1999 Magnetic Red LS1 Coupe ~33K (04/99) #6420

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  #5  
Old 01-02-2004, 01:34 PM
NorthwestSVX
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Yeah, sorry about that! I didn't mean to cause any confusion, I was a little vague on purpose because I wanted to see what ideas would come up.

But since we have a lot of newer members on these forums, maybe some more background would help clear things up.

Everything Earl said is correct. I'm going to break down 3 of the SVX groups you may or may not be familiar with.

1 Northwest SVX This is the group I started for all intensive purposes in October 2003. This is the group this thread was about. I had tried to start a similar group and web site in the past, but nothing from that carried over (members, etc). The main purpose of Northwest SVX is to give some identity to SVX owners in the Pacific Northwest that wish to meet and do car related activities. I.E., to take us a step beyond a group of owners meeting informally and give us a little more structure in both events, and who we are as a group presenting ourselves to the public (ability to request group discounts, have events reviewed in local car media, etc). The best way to keep a regional group like this united and informed in this modern age is through a web site, www.nwsvx.com and of course these forums. The web site is where we present ourselves to the public (already one of our members has "advertised" our group by welcoming members of dozens of car enthusiasts groups, media, and shops to view our site and see that we do exist and we have big plans). The web site is also where we will eventually have a photo archive of all the past events, with dozens of pictures contributed by all members. Personal lockers are cool, but how much cooler would it be to be able to go to one page and see all the best pictures of an event in one place, along with written summaries of the event and highlights. Of course this part of the site isn't just for members, this is where potential new members will look to see just what this group does, and hopefully they will like what they see enough to join us at a future meet. Which brings us to the web site is where we send potential new members to read and see what kind of a group we are, to give them enough information to know what to expect. In the past the alternative was to leave a card on a windshield that directed a newcomer to these forums, which worked for most of us, but for every one member here, how many potential members turned away because they were confused by the system, read some posts and didn't really see what the point was, were turned off by some fight or arguement going on, or maybe even never logged on to the site because the card didn't tell them enough. NWSVX.com is user friendly and full of information, and in fact is updated enough so that in theory a member never has to visit these forums at all if they are not into online forums - they can just log onto nwsvx.com once in a while and see the dates and locations of upcoming meets. Of course if they become a member, they don't even have to visit the site, they will receive meeting notices in their email.
Beyond the web site of course the hope is that by being part of a semi-official group such as Northwest SVX, we strive to put on more interesting meets and events. If we do our job right, some of these events could become traditions and as word spreads, owners will come from farther and farther away to be part of them. The rest will be history.

Point at hand: Northwest SVX is not a legal entity, I call it a semi-formal organization because as long as we all think of it as a group, present ourselves as that group, etc, we kind of have that club mentality. To make things more official would require some money for legal stuff and lots of red tape (you can tell how much I know by how I use terms like "legal stuff" ). We are probably never going to be so large a group as to require such actions and I think we would all like to keep things simple. So that said, I had floated the idea of a "premium membership" (basic membership in Northwest SVX will always be FREE) past some people that knew about "legal stuff" to see if it could fly. My thought was that a member could upgrade from free status to a premium level for say $20/year and get some extra benefits like a free decal, their own web page, etc. I was told that this might put us in some bad positions, by having someone pay for membership, there are then issues with whether the organization is registered, and possibly insurance liability at the meets! So that is why I am trying to stick to the donation idea and was told that as long as it was from person A to person B (currently me) that there is no problem and things are simple. As far as expenses, currently we are looking at around $108/year. That is for AD-FREE web hosting and the NWSVX.com URL. That's my cost, there is nothing added for time (there could be no way we could compensate for all those hours, I just really love doing it for as long as it helps better the local SVX community). There has been discussion about what could be done with any excess above that line - awards, prize drawings at meets, giving Chris money for the forums(see group #3 below).


2 SVX World Network This is the first official SVX organization started in the U.S., possibly the world. The group was talked about for years, and finally put together in 2002, with a big kick off at the 10th Anniversary SVX meet in July 02. The club had the best intentions - it had an elected board (you may have heard Randy "Aredubjay" Johnson" referred to as "president" in some posts, it is because he is elected president of this club) and was going through the process of becoming a registered non-profit organization. Over $1000 was collected in donations as well, to be put towards the costs of incorporation and to help keep these forums running (at the time they were on the verge of shutting due to lack of funds, see group #3). Some of the members that donated, or those that signed up at the big kick off meeting became members. But since the kick off, nothing of note has really happened with this organization. The incorporation never was finished, it is still not an official group any more than Northwest SVX is. As far as I know, the dues paying members never received any extra benefits (Earl can correct me if I'm wrong), other than of course the knowledge that their dues eventually went to help fund these forums since the club didn't have anything to use them on. A noble cause nonetheless, see group #3 again . As far as I know, there have been no plans to revive the idea and if you go to the web site you will see the information is quite old and most of the links are dead. For all purposes right now this club is nonexistent, which is partly why I started group #1. Perhaps in the future interest will come back, but until then, it would do well to focus closer to home and the club that is doing things! (sorry, couldn't resist)


3 subaru-svx.net This isn't so much a group as it is a place to talk. It is in fact these very forums I type this message in. We are called "members" here, but we are just registered users, or members, of an online discussion forum. It is confusing that the name and logo are almost the same as group #2, but in fact they are separate entities. When the attempt was made to start and official club (#2), the parties involved agreed that some of the funds would be paid to the owner of the forums (#3) to keep them running since they provide benefit. As I said earlier, if Northwest SVX ever got into a position of having excess funds, we would certainly be happy to divert some cash to keep these forums running since our group utilizes them. In fact, we may even go out of our way to get those excess funds specifically so we can get a big donation to the forums.
So here's the specifics on this forum site if you didn't know. This site and all it's thousands of bits of information is owned and operated by generous individual named Chris (that's his handle on here too, you've probably seen him post). He was one of the members on the old Yahoo SVX group us old timers used to be part of years ago, until he and several others decided to start their own forums site - For SVXers, By SVXers. Soon after this site appeared, and with it a gradual migration from Yahoo to here. The old Yahoo site still exists, in some form, and even some of the original members stay there and avoid here religiously. But comparing the post numbers, it would seem 90% of the online SVX talk goes on right here. And every post, every picture takes up space, and space cost money. And since the beginning Chris has kept it all running nearly flawlessly. He has always accepted donations, sometimes quietly and sometimes publicly, but there have been times, especially at the beginning, when it was all out of his own pocket. Not just the $50+/month for web space, but constant hardware upgrades and countless hours of time. Just something to keep in mind, especially next time you read a post on here on how to fix something yourself and save a couple hundred dollars you would have otherwise paid a dealer. I'm not sure the status on things financially right now, but just file this info in the back of your mind in case a call for donations from Chris comes up in the future or if Northwest SVX hosts a fundraising event.


So there's the deal on the three groups of note to kind of seperate them and see the differences and needs. Thanks for reading all of this if you did, sorry for the length but some important points I think.

And back on subject, please do post any thoughts or ideas on the Northwest SVX situation. Thanks!
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Old 01-03-2004, 07:20 PM
manofmayo manofmayo is offline
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First off, do you and Chris have a paypal account?

Secondly:
While I have benefited greatly from this network and I am sure many others locally have too, I don't think a $20 membership fee would be fair to those who really can't afford it. Living in the Puget Sound (for instance) is not exactly the cheap.
However, there are also many of us who can easily afford $20 a year and much much more.

How does taking a collection at each of the events sound?

Thirdly:
I don't believe that non-profit incorporation would be too spendy. There are enough seriously dedicated individuals in this area who could serve on the board. And there must be an attorney among us (or wives, husbands, bf's, gf's) who would be willing to donate some time. This way, Troy could get a small stipend for hosting the site and organizing the events. Plus it could be a tax write-off for everyone who contributes $$$ to the cause.

Just my 4 cents worth.
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Old 01-05-2004, 10:03 AM
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Hey Harold, thanks for the serious questions and input!

I'll answer and give my thoughts on your thoughts.

First off, do you and Chris have a paypal account?

Yes, we both do. If anyone is interested in getting those, PM me. I'm going to contact Chris this morning to see what the financial status is these days and if he is accepting donations.

Also, at some point if our funds allow I'd like to present Chris with a group donation (probably accompanied by a written card signed by the members who contributed) from nwsvx to show our appreciation and give the group a little more exposure in the SVX community. But I'm sure personal donations would be welcomed by him as well!

Secondly:
While I have benefited greatly from this network and I am sure many others locally have too, I don't think a $20 membership fee would be fair to those who really can't afford it. Living in the Puget Sound (for instance) is not exactly the cheap.
However, there are also many of us who can easily afford $20 a year and much much more.


Agreed! Again I want to stress that membership in NWSVX will always be free! If there was any membership fee, it would be only be for a "premium" level of membership, something with extra benefits that would in themselves probably cost more than 50% of the premium fee anyway.

And the point you made about some people not being able to afford even $20 a year, and others being able to afford "much much more" is excellent case for trying to keep things on a donation basis - the very nature of donations is that those that can afford to, donate, and do so in any amount they feel fit.

How does taking a collection at each of the events sound?

An interesting idea, but it is hard enough for me to ask for donations here, I don't think I would feel right about doing it at the events. I really hate that I have to be in this position at all.

Thirdly:
I don't believe that non-profit incorporation would be too spendy. There are enough seriously dedicated individuals in this area who could serve on the board. And there must be an attorney among us (or wives, husbands, bf's, gf's) who would be willing to donate some time. This way, Troy could get a small stipend for hosting the site and organizing the events. Plus it could be a tax write-off for everyone who contributes $$$ to the cause.


This sounds familiar! This is pretty much exactly the intentions behind the SVX World Network (not these forums, but the formal organization that was attempted to be started), and in fact one of the board members did have a lawyer spouse. As I mentioned, it never got quite to the stage where everything was officially filed and went through. But that is not to say it can't work for us. We seem to have the advantage of more interest and momentum going for us, and the fact that all the board members would be located close enough that meetings and such could be held face to face. The disadvantage might be that we have a much smaller potential membership base. But it definitely is something that should probably be looked into. I already went on record saying it would be nice to keep things simple, but at the same time I can see some of the added benefits of taking a few steps to make things more official.

Again thanks for putting some thought into this Harold! Maybe this will get some more conversation going.
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  #8  
Old 01-05-2004, 10:41 AM
manofmayo manofmayo is offline
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Non-Profit Incorporation

When I incorporated a few years ago, the cost to the state was $310 plus $50 a year to maintain the corporation. I was looking last week and noticed the non-profit costs where significantly less (about $145).



Also check out http://www.leg.wa.gov/pub/rcw/rcw%20...20%20TITLE.htm (Title 24 of the RCW)
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Old 01-06-2004, 10:21 AM
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First I want to acknowledge and thank Troy for all his efforts. Troy has constantly put in time and effort into creating the opportunities for the rest of us to have a relationship with other SVX owners so we can get to know people who also enjoy owning these great cars, opportunities to get together for drives, to line 'em up for photo ops, buy NWSVX logo merchandise, get together informally just for the hell of it, get stuck in the snow, etc etc etc.

On his own, Troy decided he wanted a quality online presence for us and for other SVX owners to use to find their way to us, and so he put up nwsvx.com. He didn't poll us or ask if anybody thought it would be a good idea, he just did it. I for one find it damn useful and appreciate having a place to go to find out about the other single-handed SVX projects of his, like the NWSVX merchandise and the terrific Fall Colors tour so many of us enjoyed last November. I know this is all coming out of his pocket and I am willing to support him because these things have value to me. Troy has used the word "membership" and others have used the word "dues". Whether he goes forward with his membership plan or decides to conduct a bake sale is unimportant to me because I will probably slip him a twenty every now and again to fund my part of the $108 it takes to maintain the website he has so graciously provided. (And if he has a bake sale, I'll buy a pie or two.) If anyone cannot afford $20 (or whatever), no one is going to be asked to not use the website or to pls go away. Troy is asking us if it's worth something to us and, if we can participate financially, what ideas do we have on how to provide that financial participation.

For a small informal group like we are, it's important to bear in mind the KISS principle ("keep it simple, stupid": for purposes of illustration, I'll be "stupid"). The object is 1) the car 2) the people 3) the fun 4) a medium for us to all keep in touch. Anything that strays beyond the lines of these objectives becomes a potential for complicating and muddying the intent. We're a small group without the potential to get big because there are just not that many SVX's in our neck of the woods, so a little organization goes a long way. More organization (501c3 non-profit incorporation has been mentioned), while certainly indicated for some groups, does not meet the test of the four objectives (car/people/fun/communication) and would drain money and personal effort away from the Prime Directive. Could it be done? Sure. Is it needed to for us to do what we do? No.

Troy has put together a proposed calendar of events for us that would provide opportunities for us to get together ten or so times this year for a bunch of really fun outings and he has provided the website for us to all keep in touch on these opportunities. He's already handled about all the organization needed. Also, we’ve seen the proof of the pudding in the fabulous work he did in putting on the Fall Colors tour in November, a first class event if ever there was one. Now he's asking for a bit of money to defray his out-of-pocket costs. I encourage him to keep this within the bounds of simplicity as well. It's a service that has value to me and I will participate in whatever way he selects, but it need not be complicated.

That said, I support his plan outlined above: stick to the donation idea, "from person A to person B", with any excess going for awards, prize drawings at meets, giving Chris money for the forums, etc. Raffles or auctions of car wear, care car products or discount certificates donated by car-oriented businesses is also another option to fund the expense of the website. In any event, I trust Troy's judgment. The man doesn't have a dishonest or devious bone in his body. I will help in any way I can.

Thx, Troy, for all you have done and for allowing me the opportunity to respond to your post on this matter.

Last edited by seasvx; 01-06-2004 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 01-06-2004, 02:59 PM
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ensteele ensteele is offline
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Jim

I could not have said it better. I will help out and donate where I can too. Good job Troy, and thank you so much for all of your time and efforts.
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[COLOR=”silver”]1992 Tri Color L[/COLOR] ~45K (06/91) #2430
1992 Dark Teal LS-L ~184K (05/91) #0739
1992 Claret LS-L ~196K (05/91) #0831
1992 Pearl LS-L ~103K (06/91) #1680
1992 Pearl LS-L ~151K (06/91) #2229
1992 Dark Teal LS ~150K (07/91) #3098 (parts car)
1992 White LS-L ~139K (08/92) #6913
1993 25th AE ~98K (02/93) #164
1993 25th AE ~58K (02/93) #176
1993 25th AE ~107K (02/93) #215
1993 25th AE ~162K (02/93) #223
1994 Laguna Blue Pearl LSi ~124K (1/94) #2408
1994 Laguna Blue Pearl LSi ~144K (10/93) #1484
1994 Laguna Blue Pearl LSi ~68K (10/93) #1525
1994 Barcelona Red LSi ~46K (02/94) #2624
1994 Pearl LSi ~41K (12/93) #1961
1995 Bordeaux Pearl LSi ~70K (02/95) #855
1996 Polo Green LSi ~95K (03/96) #872
1997 Bordeaux Pearl LSi ~55K (08/96) #097
2003 Brilliant Red LS1 Convertible ~29K (04/03) #8951
1999 Magnetic Red LS1 Coupe ~33K (04/99) #6420

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  #11  
Old 01-07-2004, 12:55 PM
tuzem
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I can pitch in $20-$30.

Nick
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  #12  
Old 01-09-2004, 03:43 AM
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JENKIN JENKIN is offline
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I would gladly send some $. I am on paypal alert (that is what happens when the better half looks at banker on line and decuces that you have a horrible e-bay habit- and should probably be in treatment). is there and address where I could send actual cash/check? please pm me if you do not want to post it on the site. thanks for all that you do!
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Old 01-09-2004, 04:44 PM
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ensteele ensteele is offline
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quote "... have a horrible e-bay habit- and should probably be in treatment). "

You too?
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[COLOR=”silver”]1992 Tri Color L[/COLOR] ~45K (06/91) #2430
1992 Dark Teal LS-L ~184K (05/91) #0739
1992 Claret LS-L ~196K (05/91) #0831
1992 Pearl LS-L ~103K (06/91) #1680
1992 Pearl LS-L ~151K (06/91) #2229
1992 Dark Teal LS ~150K (07/91) #3098 (parts car)
1992 White LS-L ~139K (08/92) #6913
1993 25th AE ~98K (02/93) #164
1993 25th AE ~58K (02/93) #176
1993 25th AE ~107K (02/93) #215
1993 25th AE ~162K (02/93) #223
1994 Laguna Blue Pearl LSi ~124K (1/94) #2408
1994 Laguna Blue Pearl LSi ~144K (10/93) #1484
1994 Laguna Blue Pearl LSi ~68K (10/93) #1525
1994 Barcelona Red LSi ~46K (02/94) #2624
1994 Pearl LSi ~41K (12/93) #1961
1995 Bordeaux Pearl LSi ~70K (02/95) #855
1996 Polo Green LSi ~95K (03/96) #872
1997 Bordeaux Pearl LSi ~55K (08/96) #097
2003 Brilliant Red LS1 Convertible ~29K (04/03) #8951
1999 Magnetic Red LS1 Coupe ~33K (04/99) #6420

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