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  #1  
Old 01-27-2013, 10:32 AM
ddmd ddmd is offline
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SVX won't start after accident

To All,
Any help with this will be appreciated since my engine knowledge is limited. My son was in an accident with my LSi in November where he rear ended someone at low speed. Their rear bumper rode over our front bumper and crushed the radiator into where it was barely touching the engine. The air bags didn't deploy. I removed the damaged parts, had a new radiator support put in, and tried to start the car. It cranks but doesn't start. I can hear the fuel pump running if I'm underneath the car. Tomorrow I'll spend some time trying to figure this out. Any ideas will be appreciated.
1. I'll pull the fuel line off after the filter to see if there's pumping gas.
2. I'll pull a spark plug to see if they're wet (injectors) and if they have spark.
3. Is there an "accident relay" or "after emergency mode" that turns
something off in the ignition circuit when in an accident?
-Does the "fuel rollover switch" have a role?
-Does the security system have to be reset?
4. I'll check for vacuum hoses that came off (didn't see any) and harness
connectors that may have come off. The harnesses, at least in the
damaged area, seemed to be undamaged.
5. I'll look at ground connections.
6. The "ambient air temp sensor" looks OK but doesn't the ECU uses this
for air mixture? I assume I can just check the temp gauge in the car
to see if this works.
7. Are there parts that may break with impact that wouldn't allow the
car to start at all? -Mass Air Flow Sensor
-ECM
-Crank Sensor
Thanks in advance,
Dennis
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  #2  
Old 01-27-2013, 10:53 AM
Blacky Blacky is offline
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Re: SVX won't start after accident

My daughters Outback wouldn't start after a worse accident than you describe. The timing belt had jumped a couple of teeth.
This is probably not the case in such a minor collision but a possibility.
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  #3  
Old 01-27-2013, 11:28 AM
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icingdeath88 icingdeath88 is offline
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Re: SVX won't start after accident

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddmd View Post
To All,
Any help with this will be appreciated since my engine knowledge is limited. My son was in an accident with my LSi in November where he rear ended someone at low speed. Their rear bumper rode over our front bumper and crushed the radiator into where it was barely touching the engine. The air bags didn't deploy. I removed the damaged parts, had a new radiator support put in, and tried to start the car. It cranks but doesn't start. I can hear the fuel pump running if I'm underneath the car. Tomorrow I'll spend some time trying to figure this out. Any ideas will be appreciated.
1. I'll pull the fuel line off after the filter to see if there's pumping gas.
2. I'll pull a spark plug to see if they're wet (injectors) and if they have spark.
3. Is there an "accident relay" or "after emergency mode" that turns
something off in the ignition circuit when in an accident? I don't think so.
-Does the "fuel rollover switch" have a role? maybe. never had to mess with this myself. I think this would just turn off the fuel pump though.
-Does the security system have to be reset? not if it's cranking. the security system can interrupt the signal to the starter to prevent the car from running, but that's the only way it can, AFAIK.
4. I'll check for vacuum hoses that came off (didn't see any) and harness
connectors that may have come off. The harnesses, at least in the
damaged area, seemed to be undamaged. Look for wiring that's between body panels and such that might be pinched. Most of the wiring for the engine is confined to the back of the engine bay, however. The body harness that goes through the driver side fender, across the front of the car is for the headlights, some A/C, etc, but not for the engine. So if it's damaged, it might not be causing this issue, but might cause others.
5. I'll look at ground connections.
6. The "ambient air temp sensor" looks OK but doesn't the ECU uses this
for air mixture? I assume I can just check the temp gauge in the car
to see if this works. The ECU doesn't use this. I think only the A/C system uses this.
7. Are there parts that may break with impact that wouldn't allow the
car to start at all? -Mass Air Flow Sensor Connections in the MAF might break in a collision. They sometimes break and need to bre re-soldered just due to age, so an accident could do it.
-ECM
-Crank Sensor
Thanks in advance,
Dennis
Some answers in red above. Might be a good idea to post some pics of the damage. Also, do any ECU codes come up? That should be the first thing to check on the list if you haven't already.
__________________
'94 Laguna Blue LSi ~159k.......JDM ultra short-geared 3.900 STi Version 7 6-speed w/ Cobb shortshifter, ECUtune 244,8.1mm/256,9.1mm i/e cams, group N motor mounts, '97 grille, JDM clear corners, Momo JDM Legacy GT steering wheel, apkarian's LED tails, silver STi BBS wheels, PWR radiator, redstuff pads f/r, drilled/slotted rotors, bontragerworks rsb #18, Koni/GC 450f/375r coilovers, Megan Racing adjustable lateral links, KMac c/c plates, Stebro exhaust, ECUtune 1v5, Optima battery in the trunk where it belongs. Turbo project

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  #4  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:05 PM
ddmd ddmd is offline
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Re: SVX won't start after accident

Thanks,
I'll keep that in mind as a possibility. I'll check for CEL codes too.

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacky View Post
My daughters Outback wouldn't start after a worse accident than you describe. The timing belt had jumped a couple of teeth.
This is probably not the case in such a minor collision but a possibility.
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  #5  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:26 PM
ddmd ddmd is offline
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Re: SVX won't start after accident

Thanks for the help. I didn't take pictures and it's largely repaired, except for the hood, bumper cover and fenders. The wiring harness looks OK as just the tip of DS fender was slightly damaged. I'll check the CEL codes tomorrow also.
Thanks again,
Dennis


Quote:
Originally Posted by icingdeath88 View Post
Some answers in red above. Might be a good idea to post some pics of the damage. Also, do any ECU codes come up? That should be the first thing to check on the list if you haven't already.
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  #6  
Old 01-27-2013, 05:18 PM
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Hocrest Hocrest is offline
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Re: SVX won't start after accident

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacky View Post
My daughters Outback wouldn't start after a worse accident than you describe. The timing belt had jumped a couple of teeth.
This is probably not the case in such a minor collision but a possibility.
That was my first thought.
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  #7  
Old 01-28-2013, 04:43 PM
ddmd ddmd is offline
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Re: SVX won't start after accident

I used an OBDII scanner on it and it there were no codes. There was gas being delivered, at least, to beyond the gas filter. I didn't pull a spark plug yet as I only had a few minutes to spend today. I don't see any vacuum lines knocked off. I checked electrical connectors around the engine and they appear OK. The battery wasn't displaced and the cam sensor wasn't hit. Externally, at least the connectors on the cam sensor and crank sensors seem OK and there's no evidence that they were hit or disrupted. I pulled out a crank sensor from my parts car and it looks pretty nondescript. What do I look for physically that would indicate that it's bad. By the way, I was told that it cranks only. It does seem to want to start for 1 second and then it only cranks. If it's left for a while, it will do the same thing.
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:46 PM
ddmd ddmd is offline
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Re: SVX won't start after accident

I looked at the mass air flow sensor. The tiny element inside looks OK. If something were broken that I can't see, is it possible that the MAFS can cause it to not start?
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  #9  
Old 01-28-2013, 04:59 PM
ddmd ddmd is offline
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Re: SVX won't start after accident

Thanks, icingdeath88, for the ECU and MAFS suggestions. I think I'll leave the crank and cam sensors alone for now so I don't screw them up, since there were no codes detected by my OBDII scanner. I'll check the ECU connections and try a MAFS from my parts car (engine ran fine before it was retired-216K miles and needed too much else)
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  #10  
Old 01-29-2013, 01:41 PM
ddmd ddmd is offline
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Re: SVX won't start after accident

Damn!!! I thought the MAF Sensor was going to be it. Before I replaced it with the Parts car MAF sensor, I tried to start it and it ran for 2 seconds this time, then nothing. After replacing it with the parts car MAF, nothing but crank. I went around checking electrical connectors, including under the dash, and everything seems OK, There is spark with a regular rate when I pulled the plug. It's not wet, but I get a whiff of gas from it. I don't see any vacuum hoses off. Am I looking at a timing belt that jumped? Any other ideas? Is it time to put it on a truck to the dealer?
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:55 PM
1986nate 1986nate is offline
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Re: SVX won't start after accident

It's easy enough to check the timing yourself. Also, a trained ear can tell if the timing is off even without it running.
You may have a bad coolant temp sensor or something else going on. This may seem obvious answer but I have to ask, did you fill the car/engine back up with coolant? Just have to ask since I've had them not start at all only due to no coolant being in the system.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:24 PM
ddmd ddmd is offline
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Re: SVX won't start after accident

Hi Nate,
Dennis form Harrisburg here. I'm definitely not a trained ear. Would it crank normally with bad timing? Only after letting it sit, it "runs" for 1-2 seconds before cutting out and sounds "normal" for that small time period, then on;y cranks. I wouldn't have thought of a coolant temp sensor. Where is it and how do I test it? There is coolant in the radiator at least. I don't know how much is in the engine.
I'm sure I can figure out how to do the timing but I'm staring to run out of time. I normally work 12 hrs per day and the car is sitting in the collision shop's garage. They've been very patient so far.
By the way, check your PM re: the body parts. Thanks again



Quote:
Originally Posted by 1986nate View Post
It's easy enough to check the timing yourself. Also, a trained ear can tell if the timing is off even without it running.
You may have a bad coolant temp sensor or something else going on. This may seem obvious answer but I have to ask, did you fill the car/engine back up with coolant? Just have to ask since I've had them not start at all only due to no coolant being in the system.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:31 PM
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icingdeath88 icingdeath88 is offline
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Re: SVX won't start after accident

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddmd View Post
Hi Nate,
Dennis form Harrisburg here. I'm definitely not a trained ear. Would it crank normally with bad timing? Only after letting it sit, it "runs" for 1-2 seconds before cutting out and sounds "normal" for that small time period, then on;y cranks. I wouldn't have thought of a coolant temp sensor. Where is it and how do I test it? There is coolant in the radiator at least. I don't know how much is in the engine.
I'm sure I can figure out how to do the timing but I'm staring to run out of time. I normally work 12 hrs per day and the car is sitting in the collision shop's garage. They've been very patient so far.
By the way, check your PM re: the body parts. Thanks again
You could grab the coolant temp sensor from the parts car and try it with that.
__________________
'94 Laguna Blue LSi ~159k.......JDM ultra short-geared 3.900 STi Version 7 6-speed w/ Cobb shortshifter, ECUtune 244,8.1mm/256,9.1mm i/e cams, group N motor mounts, '97 grille, JDM clear corners, Momo JDM Legacy GT steering wheel, apkarian's LED tails, silver STi BBS wheels, PWR radiator, redstuff pads f/r, drilled/slotted rotors, bontragerworks rsb #18, Koni/GC 450f/375r coilovers, Megan Racing adjustable lateral links, KMac c/c plates, Stebro exhaust, ECUtune 1v5, Optima battery in the trunk where it belongs. Turbo project

'97 Ebony LSi ~137k #036.......Power mode mod, JDM clear corners, BBS wheels. AUX/pocket mod

Now a mod "over there" ............Photo album
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  #14  
Old 02-08-2013, 08:12 PM
ddmd ddmd is offline
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Re: SVX won't start after accident

Update! I tried the temp sensor but wasn't it. Finally checked the timing and it was way off. Apparently it jumped during the accident. Replaced the timing belt and it runs now! Now on to finishing the body work and getting it back on the road! Thanks for the help everyone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by icingdeath88 View Post
You could grab the coolant temp sensor from the parts car and try it with that.
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  #15  
Old 02-19-2013, 10:25 AM
ddmd ddmd is offline
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Re: SVX won't start after accident

Ticking,ticking ticking! Picked up the SVX from the Auto Body shop (they did great work, looks brand new), but it's ticking....damn! I noticed it after the timing belt was replaced but it only ran for a minute back then. While it seemed to run smoothly on the way home, it's still ticking. Any ideas? Might it just be a matter of changing the oil and running it after sitting for so long (more than two months)?
Dennis
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