You can now have a 485whp SVX for less than $2000

[Cam]

E85 has a higher octane rating than premium gasoline. It has an octane rating closer to 94-96. I therefore would not expect PhastSVX to experience detonation problems on his engine. When he was running 6 psi was it with aftermarket cams? If the duration was long enough they would bleed some pressure off, making it slightly less compression than that of the same boost into an engine with factory cams.

[oab_au]

Originally Posted by Cam

E85 has a higher octane rating than premium gasoline. It has an octane rating closer to 94-96. I therefore would not expect PhastSVX to experience detonation problems on his engine. When he was running 6 psi was it with aftermarket cams? If the duration was long enough they would bleed some pressure off, making it slightly less compression than that of the same boost into an engine with factory cams.

Cam the point I was making, was that Phil has peen running 5/6 psi for a few years now, and has just gone to 12 psi. All this is on a standard engine. Std pistons, rods, cams.
Demonstrating that the engine can handle the power without spending a lot on the internal components.

The other point was that high boost at low rpm will cause early detonation. The PD blower can produce full boost at low rpms. The Turbo's boost goes up as the rpm goes up, so there is less chance of low speed detonation, with a Turbo than with a PD blower.

Harvey.

[TomsSVX]

whats the point of running boost if you cannot have it at all RPMS

No matter how you put it, the SVX is a heavy car, even geared down, it still needs the torque to break away from a still or at speed...

Unless you really lighten the car or are road racing it, a s/c is likely the better option...

If you are changing internals... then you can make a turbo do the job better

Tom

[Cam]

Harvey, I completely understand what you are saying, and am in agreement with all the facts you have stated. I agree with what Tom stated as well, and would say that if you don't have the low-end then whats the real point? The SVX is plenty fast and has enough top end for any practical applications. Those trying to make power want it throughout the entire powerband. That is why I am going 11:1 with agressive cams and engine management. I want my car to have balls from 0, and from 60.

However, I was not saying that the internals were too weak to handle that kind of boost, given that the fuel has an octane rating sufficient enough to not detonate pre-spark. The 10:1 stock compression ratio would make me very weary of putting boost to our stock engines. Especially since most have well over 100k miles and would at least need a complete re-build.

IMHO the only turbo setup that has ever touched a supercharger in functionality is a sequential turbo. Way too much headache if something goes wrong. I have heard they are incredibly difficult to dial in, but I have absolutely no experience with them.

By the way, Tom, has the shadow machine sold yet? I hope some punk kid with mommys check book doesn't get to you before someone who will take care of it the way it deserves does.

[svxistentialist]

Originally Posted by Cam

Harvey, I completely understand what you are saying, and am in agreement with all the facts you have stated. I agree with what Tom stated as well, and would say that if you don't have the low-end then whats the real point? The SVX is plenty fast and has enough top end for any practical applications. Those trying to make power want it throughout the entire powerband. That is why I am going 11:1 with agressive cams and engine management. I want my car to have balls from 0, and from 60.

However, I was not saying that the internals were too weak to handle that kind of boost, given that the fuel has an octane rating sufficient enough to not detonate pre-spark. The 10:1 stock compression ratio would make me very weary of putting boost to our stock engines. Especially since most have well over 100k miles and would at least need a complete re-build.

IMHO the only turbo setup that has ever touched a supercharger in functionality is a sequential turbo. Way too much headache if something goes wrong. I have heard they are incredibly difficult to dial in, but I have absolutely no experience with them.

I have experience of both Cam, all three in fact. I have experience of single turbo, twin turbo sequential and supercharger. I prefer the supercharger [PD blower, not the belt driven pseudo turbocharger type] of these three because of the instant "hit".

This instant boost is also a small liability as it will tend to create detonation conditions at lower revs if you don't deal with that problem, but horses for courses, you pays your money and all that.

I know OT's belt driven blower works a treat, so I'm happy with any well installed device that will extract more power, it's all good as I see it.

The twin sequential turbos in the Legacies TT that I had were pretty dam quick. The arrangement for bringing in the boost of both together was overly complex and there was a slight hole or dip as both turbos came on, but for the most part it made loads of power when you needed it.

My brother has a Japanese Legacy GT[last model, not the Blimp] which has now reverted to only one turbo, though it is the variable vane type. This makes loads of boost low down and keeps on delivering smilies right to the red line. I like it a whole lot, it's well matched to the pumping ability of the engine.

Even in standard trim the SVX can take a supercharger without major rebuild. You just need to add a very effective water or ethanol injection kit. It is also advisable to change the fuel to ethanol mix. However I would add a caution that if the engine has high miles and you don't know how well it was cared for, then in that case a rebuild would be safer. If I was doing it again I would rebuild anyway to use bigger pistons and get more swept volume for the expense. It's all about low down punch for me. If I want to rev the nuts off something I'll get on the bike and scare myself.

Joe

[Bonestock]

Sorry but "free" turbo power beats S/C any day of the week for me. The S/C is always on... dont need or want that. Turbo is there when you need it so at cruising speeds your economy is unchanged. The progressive build of power with a turbo is also much easier for the mechanical's to cope with.

Think of it this way:

Walk up behind a large dog and startle it = something bad is probably going to happen

Do the same thing but talk to it and make it aware and the chances of something going bad are greatly reduced.

YMMV

[TomsSVX]

Originally Posted by Bonestock

Sorry but "free" turbo power beats S/C any day of the week for me. The S/C is always on... dont need or want that. Turbo is there when you need it so at cruising speeds your economy is unchanged. The progressive build of power with a turbo is also much easier for the mechanical's to cope with.

Think of it this way:

Walk up behind a large dog and startle it = something bad is probably going to happen

Do the same thing but talk to it and make it aware and the chances of something going bad are greatly reduced.

YMMV

PD blowers require a recirc valve to operate well...

Just cruising it consumes the same amount of fuel as an N/A or turbo car with just the 1-2hp loss of the rotors turning. It only makes boost when you put your foot into it... Quite frankly, I love the brute force low end power my s/c 6mt has... Even the M5 doesn't have that "holy **** im in a sling shot" that the S/C EG33 gives the car

Tom

[Bonestock]

I have always felt S/C cars pull like trucks... instant power and usually fall off up top. Not bad if you are in a truck but a sporty or sports cars are entirely different. I like mid and top end power. I guess most might not understand what I am on about.

[TomsSVX]

Originally Posted by Bonestock

I have always felt S/C cars pull like trucks... instant power and usually fall off up top. Not bad if you are in a truck but a sporty or sports cars are entirely different. I like mid and top end power. I guess most might not understand what I am on about.

I understand fully, that is great for a car that has time and room to remain in the upper RPMS and doesn't need to get out of its own way out of the box... My car was typically drag raced and auto-x which is where you need you low/mid range more... Plus its so functional its retarded... I could put this into a daily driver and and just drive it... Feel like making a move... BOOM 300 whp at your grasp... No waiting, no spool, no building... Just break your neck g's...

Tom

[svxistentialist]

Tom is stating it exactly as I see it. The PD blower produces massive torque low down and mid range where you need it most.

Turbochargers have lower parasitic power losses than blowers, but they are not all that "free" as people think. By their nature they create so much heat under the hood they need pipes and intercoolers to get the charge reasonably dense, that costs money and takes up underhood real estate. The continuous heat when in use raises temperatures under the hood and eventually causes problems for wiring, tubes etc. Dealing with all this costs money. Not that free I would say.

For me the ideal system might be a PD blower with a small turbo sequentially feeding it. That gets around the problem of the blower running out of puff.

Joe

[Bonestock]

Originally Posted by svxistentialist

Tom is stating it exactly as I see it. The PD blower produces massive torque low down and mid range where you need it most.

Turbochargers have lower parasitic power losses than blowers, but they are not all that "free" as people think. By their nature they create so much heat under the hood they need pipes and intercoolers to get the charge reasonably dense, that costs money and takes up underhood real estate. The continuous heat when in use raises temperatures under the hood and eventually causes problems for wiring, tubes etc. Dealing with all this costs money. Not that free I would say.

For me the ideal system might be a PD blower with a small turbo sequentially feeding it. That gets around the problem of the blower running out of puff.

Joe

Maybe if you are slapping a turbo on a car that was never intended for it. Under hood heat? Wiring breakdown? Tubes etc? LOL really? You dont have to charge cool a forced induction engine.. S/C guys do it all the time but then they heat soak like crazy and to me you are leaving tons of power and reliability on the table w/o it.

Tom for autoX I could see where you would want low end grunt. For drag racing?? Unless you are so under geared, I cant see why anyone wouldn't want their power in the mid-top end. Lets not get started with the whole HP sells cars, TQ wins races.. what a bunch of crap that phrase is.

My Evo made its peak HP (350whp) at 7,200rpm. It was set up for what I love most, road racing. When we moved back to the states all my friends talked me into going drag racing... 12.4@118 1/4 and 7.8@92 in the 1/8th. There you can see the grip of AWD (ET) and the well... the power of HP (MPH).

If you like big lazy thrust of gobs of low end- positive displacement S/C is for you. Just not for me.

[TomsSVX]

I like an engine that reacts instantly to my every want and desire... If I wanted to wait for the power to come on... I have might as well sit in the passenger's seat

Tom

[Bonestock]

Originally Posted by TomsSVX

I like an engine that reacts instantly to my every want and desire... If I wanted to wait for the power to come on... I have might as well sit in the passenger's seat

Tom

I hear that behavior is desirable for towing not a race car. You act as if turbo cars are soooo laggy. I mean they can be with piss poor sizing or low efficiency ratings (damn ebay turbos!).

[DarknessofDeath]

smaller turbos dont give you that lag.
when my car still had it's stock turbo, it's almost....not even there..
it pulls nice..

now with a bigger turbo, i wish that i didn't upgrade at all...

compound charge is the best of both worlds.. but it's just not worth the money


and also. the ebay listing says 485HP
that is different from 485whp.

[TomsSVX]

even with the iddy biddy twins on a Z32, they lagged enough to piss me off... I am an instant gratification kind of a guy is all I guess. This is all based off my personal preference and not what you all should want

Tom