Subaru 216A Officially Announced

[Crazy_pilot]

http://www.7tune.com/confirmed-bigge...r-subaru-216a/

[Sean486]

I think I'm in love.

[BoxerFanatic]

What about this is official?

It looks like a photochop, and 7Tune is notorious for fictional renderings.

Not that it looks that bad... but it isn't official until it is official.

This:

However staff close to the Subaru development side of the project have revealed

doesn't strike me as "officially sanctioned."

At best, this is another insider leak, and a rumor built around it.

Originally Posted by 7Tune article

Just as soon as the Toyota FT-86 was born and came to this world at the Tokyo Motor show, it’s bigger, badder twin brother is about to hit the stage.

It’s well known that Subaru and Toyota have been in the same bed developing the FT-86 but one question that remains on everyone’s lips is how, if they are developing the same car, can the two be different? Well it’s emerged that Subaru has been busy waving their wand over the 086A/FT-86 and is going to bring some very Subaru style magic to the table.

The biggest news to come out of all this is that rumors of the car being turbo and all wheel drive are now in fact confirmed. However staff close to the Subaru development side of the project have revealed is that the first thing to differ will be the codes which the cars will be known by. While the version of the FT-86 to go on sale in Japan will be known by the code 086A and in the US and Europe as the 087A and 088A respectively, the Fuji Heavy Industries version will be branded as the 216A. This is to “clearly distinguish between the Toyota and Subaru version of the car”. Things get juicier from there though with the confirmation of what many have been suspecting all along. The car will be driven by a 2.0 liter turbo charged powerplant feeding power to all four wheels. This will either come in the flavor of a revised, lower power but more efficient 250ps and 34.0kg/m EJ20 from the Impreza 2.0 GT or the EJ20 Turbo from the current Impreza WRX STi pumping out 308ps and 43.0kg/m of torque. Our guess is the latter may well be used for an STi version of the car down the track. No pun intended.

Body wise, the the Subaru version will be bigger and badder but at the same time tipping the scales to the tune of around 100kg more than the 086A. This seems to be a reasonable weight gain seeing that 4WD has been added and the dimensions have been increased in the region of 20mm all around. Total height and width will go from 1260mm to 1280mm and 1760 to 1780mm respectively. Wheelbase and total lengths have also been extended, with overall length reaching 4180mm and the wheelbase gaining 30 to 50mm, up to around 2600~mm from 2570mm. This is almost spot on to the current Impreza’s 2620mm so the possibility of them sharing parts or being very similar is undoubtedly high. The final distinguishing factor between the two? Well that will be the price. The increased performance, all wheel drive and pumped body will be adding around half a million yen to the tag bringing the car to around 3 million yen come 2011. This is not only to cover the extras over the Toyota but also to distinguish itself from the FT-86 version.
Words: Peter Horniak
Images: BestCar

Unless the overall car length increase is on the front of the car, and the front hard-points change, which might be possible... AWD is going to be problematic otherwise. I hope it gets AWD... but we'll see.

What makes them think that the turbo boxer will be the EJ20 from Japan, that is no longer sold in overseas markets, in favor of the EJ25...

Frankly, I think it might be a new "FJ20" next-gen boxer, that the FT86/086A Toyota is using, plus a turbo, probably low-front mounted, like the new Legacy and the turbo diesel boxer. Again, I hope so, but we'll see.

This is all conjecture until there is a Subaru press release.

[SVXRide]

I'm seeing G35 influences
-Bill

[Landshark]

look at the photos in the first post, then add 200% more goofy and awkward.
Subaru will make it look like that.

[Mike621]

Originally Posted by Landshark

look at the photos in the first post, then add 200% more goofy and awkward.
Subaru will make it look like that.

I like this released rendering, but based on the spy photos





of the coupe tester on the track, I would tend to agree with you Alan.

However, if this FT-86esque version were to be the final, then I'd say that I would be looking at it more seriously.

[Landshark]

it could look like a Ferrari, but from all reports it will be under-powered and, IMHO, weaksauce.

if it had a turbo, that could be fixed easily, but its basically going to be Subaru's version of a Scion tC. its a shame, because they could have made it interesting.

[Sean486]

Originally Posted by Landshark

look at the photos in the first post, then add 200% more goofy and awkward.
Subaru will make it look like that.

[svxistentialist]

Originally Posted by Mike621

I like this released rendering, but based on the spy photos





of the coupe tester on the track, I would tend to agree with you Alan.

However, if this FT-86esque version were to be the final, then I'd say that I would be looking at it more seriously.

I think the Toyota F-86 looks the dog's knadgers.

There is no relationship in the cabin roof profile on the above testing vehicle and that of the F-86 show car or the mock-up on top adding Subaru cues to the Toyota sports car. So I'm thinking that the track car is merely a test mule using the ugly humpy Impreza cabin to test the running gear.

It makes sense for Toyota to use a flat four from Subaru as part of the collaboration; low profile engine for a low sporty hood with plenty of proven power available and an obvious upgrade path.

What's harder to reconcile is the opposing philosophies for the sportscars. It makes marketing sense what Toyota are doing. They are selling cars that the yoots want to drive. Lightweight rear drive with controllable oversteer feeding into the existing Drifting market.

It would seem to make economic sense for Subaru also, they have rejected making some very nice sports cars over the last ten years, and sharing the platform with Toyota shares the burden of development costs and makes the investment/return ratio much safer than it was for the SVX way back then.

What seems strange is adding AWD to this particular mix. This could be a negative on two fronts; it will add weight to a vehicle that Toyota are touting as a light weight sportscar; and it will fundamentally change the handling from rear drive balls out sideways to safe-as-houses, don't-want-to-hang-the-tail understeer-on-the-limit Subaru handling that the Prezzas are blessed/cursed with.

Well at least unless they endow it enough power to smoke the tyres and with a DCCD system that allows 80:20 rear bias on demand.

That might be something to look forward to.

Joe

[BoxerFanatic]

This is what I tried to post to the Autoblog discussion of this very news... but their comments system is crazy...

I can see in my mind's eye, this coupe coming with the same base NA engine as the Toyota... as a base model, we'll call 2.0i, in deference to Subaru's NA naming scheme.

Then coming as a stripped down turbo model, with cloth, and few amenities, we'll call it RS, for the sake of argument.

Hopefully RS it would come with good suspension settings, and Subaru's monoblock brakes. Probably with Legacy's less expensive 6-speed gearbox, and horsepower level (~260-270hp). Optional 5 or possibly upgraded 6-speed electronic automatic, with sport shift programming, and paddle shifters behind the steering wheel (like 08-09 Legacy GT optionally had)

I would love to see then a full on STI version.... 300hp+ engine, with the robust 6-speed DCCD gearbox, Bilstein dampers, Brembo brakes, BBS forged wheels, Recaro seats, SI-Drive variable engine mapping.

(if they want to combine DCCD, SI-Drive, and Bilstein's PSS10 cockpit adjustable dampers, and maybe an electronically controlled torque vectoring rear diff into a unified driving dynamics system, that would be fine with me. maybe add a PDK-like transaxle into that mix... )

On top of that base configurations...
Optional Spec.B package to the RS model adds standard Bilsteins, Brembos, larger wheels and tires to the base ~270hp turbo model, without leather or sunroof. Purely a sport performance package. Maybe some slight visual change to identify it.

Optional Limited/GT package to all three models, base, RS, and STI.
-Adds Leather subaru seats for base and RS, or leather/alcantara covered Recaros in the STI.
-Adds glass moonroof, or Scion tC style glass-roof with blacked out roof center.
-Adds premium HK or McIntosh sound system, with bluetooth, iPod, USB, etc... maybe NAV as well.
-Adds HID/HIR/LED lighting package to base and RS models.

STI should have blacked out fixtures, an HID standard, with HIR high beams, and LED optically-focused fog/DRL lights. All other illumination on the car should be LED or Electro-luminescent, including every element of the tail lights and rear signals, and side-mirror signals

And, in order to accommodate all the variations... relieve dealers from having to carry at least one of each... let them carry the high-demand versions, or the versions they think they can sell, but still let people come in and ORDER a coupe in any of the configurations they want.

So, we would have:
-2.0i, and 2.0i Limited. CVT or 5-speed manual. (for CAFE and all...)
-RS (turbo), RS Spec.B, RS Limited, and BOTH Spec.B and Limited pkgs together. (6-speed manual or auto.)
STI, and STI Limited. (up-rated 6-speed only, or dual-cutch if they can do it...)

I could see the 2.0i starting around $21-22K.
I could see the STI Limited topping out under $40K, fully loaded.

Pretty much the segment that the Impreza 2.5i to WRX STI BBS-pkg also occupies, as well as the 2009 2.5i to 2.5 GT Spec.B range did, as well.

IF they can pull off that product mix they will be doing well. It should be wrapped in good exterior styling, and better interior styling, that is more like 05-07 Legacy with soft padded vinyls, and a driver-oriented, dignified interior design, maybe Tribeca's 3-LCD-dial auto climate control on the upper models, 3-dial manual controls on the lower models...

Please build it with a non-integrated, replaceable double-din audio system, though. Not stubbornly built-in and sharing a common PCB with the auto climate control, like the US market 05-09 Legacy. Japanese-built Legacy variants were replaceable with a different console fascia panel, and also offered McIntosh optional.

Also... 5x114.3 wheels. Base model to full-blown. This is going to potentially take the sport compact market by storm... let people fit a wide variety of aftermarket wheels, please. There is no real drawback to 5x114.3.

They could do this in such a way to be a home run. OR they could do the Subaru thing, and punt it at the finishing stage, and have it fall short of it's potential.

[green_eyed_lady]

Originally Posted by svxistentialist

I think the Toyota F-86 looks the dog's knadgers.

For those of us across the pond, is that good or bad?

[svxistentialist]

Originally Posted by green_eyed_lady

For those of us across the pond, is that good or bad?

That would be the same as you guys across the pond saying it looks sick.....

[SilverSpear]

Originally Posted by SVXRide

I'm seeing G35 influences
-Bill

Yeah Bill, looks like a hybrid of G35 with WRX, S class mercedes and the 08 honda accord coupe.

But overall I like it

[BoxerFanatic]

Not sure how official the 216A still is:
Report: Toyota FT-86 delayed until 2013, hybrid under consideration

If a report from Japan's Best Car is to be believed, Toyota will delay the release of the FT-86 from 2011 to 2013.

The reasons behind the delay are varied, and include a different design direction, the economic slowdown and possibly a revised powertrain strategy that could include some kind of hybrid motivation.

As reported previously, the original FT-86 concept was just that – a design study – and Toyota is apparently second-guessing the styling of the coupe before it reaches production. Additionally, ToMoCo is reportedly gauging the success of the Honda CR-Z, which could influence the final drivetrain specs of the FT-86. If that means a hybrid powerplant is in the cards, we're not totally heartbroken, but if Toyota decides to remake the coupe as a front-driver, consider our dreams officially dashed. Regardless, the next iteration of the FT-86 is slated to debut at the Tokyo Motor Show at the end of 2011.

Subaru should consider this collaboration cancelled, and proceed on an expedited timeline for their own coupe. The committee think on this FT-86 project is the lethal ingredient, anyway.

Subaru should take the R&D progress, and PRODUCE AN IMPREZA-CHASSIS AWD COUPE NOW.

Re-body the Impreza WRX/STI floorpan with a sleek 3-door coupe body... use the new NA DOHC engine, the WRX and STI turbo H4 engines, and the EZ36 H6... the 5-speed auto, and the STI/Spec.B 6MT with DCCD.

Inverted Bilsteins, Brembos, Forged BBS, the whole STI kit at the top end of the line, with 305hp STI turbo 4, or 300+hp NA flat 6 engine choice.

EZ36 should be able to roughly meet the power output of the Ford 3.7 V6, the Hyundai 3.8, and the Nissan VQ37, if it isn't corked for the benefit of the 5-speed automatic's unofficial ~260lb.ft. of torque operational limit. It has variable valve timing, and the EZ30 had variable lift, as well, which could be re-added to the newer EZ engine.

NA flat 4, CVT or 6MT like the '10 Legacy 2.5i, as the economy model, WRX equivalent between the two. ~23K base, to ~34-36K top end price range. Right across the heart of Genesis and Mustang... But with AWD, independent suspension, and sleeker looks.

All versions with 5x114.3 PCD, ~+40mm offset wheel fitment, please. You can make the car wide-bodied, as long as it isn't as chunky and graceless as the WRX and STI sheetmetal is. Think SVX meets 2005-2009 Legacy sleek and clean styling.

If M-B can build a C-class chassis into what they call an E-class Coupe, Subaru can use the GR Impreza Chassis to build a coupe between the Impreza and Legacy lines, as well.

No reason at all for a coupe to be as gargantuan as the 2010+ Legacy is. That car makes SVX look small, and SVX isn't that small. Pictures exist to prove it.

But it need not be as spartan as the impreza line, either... some features and amenities in the catalog would be welcome.

Subaru could build this for an early 2012 release, and show the concept this fall, if they wanted to, especially if they have somehow picked up competent exterior and interior designers with a sense of aesthetics.

The parts and the platform are all there. Like Nike says... JUST DO IT!

Thanks to Farang, we can visualize it:

Or:


Maybe with some of this lighting tech thrown, in to truly bring it up-to-date: (no-thanks to the long, high roofline, though...)

[K_Dub]

I've been following this car's development with bated breath from the beginning. Toyota's statement today is a heart breaker. Hopefully Subaru has the cajones to follow through with their own version, and keep it sporty. Meanwhile, I've been defending Toyota lately by telling people about the "cool new sports car they're making." I don't appreciate being made a liar, Toyota. Maybe you're just as bad as everyone's been saying.