starting problems

[s'ko]

I can't seem to get the old boy to start.

I have had intermittent starting problems in the past.

When the key was turned to start, it would just make a click. I would take a few time to turning to start for it to finally turn over.

Recently I started getting an error in the tranny and the code that I pulled for that was Throttle position. I also noticed that I no longer had the power mode goodness.

Yesterday morning, I tried to start it and it would not fire. pulled codes and got 11, 22, 31, 28, 37.

11= crank angle sensor, 22 & 28 = knock, 31 = throttle position, 37 = 02 sensor.

the night before it started up with the usual turn click a few times. I did notice that the thinner ground wire from the battery to the chassis was getting really hot and melting the plastic battery tray. I removed the battery to clear the codes and tried again last night to start the car. Still no go. The only code it throws now is 31.

i removed the TPS and checked the movement and it sweeped smoothly from 5k down to 0.1k

could it be a loose ground?

Any clues? Thanks.

BW

[superru]

possibly, make sure you have a ground to your engine also. Should be grounded thrugh the starter... but some have put multiple grounds and seen inprovements. ( i have not) so if you have to hit the key multiple times to get the starter to engage, then your solenoid is probly pitted and you can fix by taking it apart and filing down the contacts inside so they are clean and bright again. do any of your lights "dim down" when the car does the CLICK no turn over thing? if so then probly a ground. if no "dim" then starter is not pulling current. if the car turns over at correct speed to fire but doesn't, make sure you have fuel pressure. ( the hose out of the fuel filter should be pretty hard if you try to squeeze it) make sure your MAF is hooked up, TPS, Cam PS, Crank PS, (there are 2 sensors on the front crank).
report back. if you need further help you can PM me.

[s'ko]

Originally Posted by superru

possibly, make sure you have a ground to your engine also. Should be grounded thrugh the starter... but some have put multiple grounds and seen inprovements. ( i have not) so if you have to hit the key multiple times to get the starter to engage, then your solenoid is probly pitted and you can fix by taking it apart and filing down the contacts inside so they are clean and bright again. do any of your lights "dim down" when the car does the CLICK no turn over thing? if so then probly a ground. if no "dim" then starter is not pulling current. if the car turns over at correct speed to fire but doesn't, make sure you have fuel pressure. ( the hose out of the fuel filter should be pretty hard if you try to squeeze it) make sure your MAF is hooked up, TPS, Cam PS, Crank PS, (there are 2 sensors on the front crank).
report back. if you need further help you can PM me.

Yes the lights dim when I get the click. I don't have much time to take a look at it tonight, but I have all of Friday off so I will take a peak underneath the hood. Thanks for the input.

BW

[SoCal LS-L]

Originally Posted by s'ko

Yes the lights dim when I get the click. I don't have much time to take a look at it tonight, but I have all of Friday off so I will take a peak underneath the hood. Thanks for the input.

BW

That means your starter is drawing amperage, and getting the signal to crank. You can try jumping it from the main positive terminal to the signal lead, but it looks like it needs to be yanked and bench tested to confirm starter failure.

[s'ko]

Originally Posted by SoCal LS-L

That means your starter is drawing amperage, and getting the signal to crank. You can try jumping it from the main positive terminal to the signal lead, but it looks like it needs to be yanked and bench tested to confirm starter failure.

Let me clarify something.

Right, the starter cranks fine, but the car will not fire.

So here is what happened in order.
1) click click click turn over start situation.
2) threw tranny code, Throttle Sensor, & Power mode will not activate
3) Monday night (click click click turn over start as usually)
4) Tuesday morning (click, click, turn over turn over, nada) Pulled engine codes, got 11, 22, 31, 28, 37. Noticed smoke and smelled burning plastic. Determined that small ground wire from the neg terminal on the battery is getting hot and melting the battery tray. Removed wires from the battery terminals to reset the ECU and clear the codes.
5) Came home, hooked up battery, turned key, turn over w/no start.
Pulled code 31. On a good note, it did not do the click, click, turn over. Removed TPS and check the Ohms. Got 5k closed and gradual smooth decrease to 0.2 open
6) Reinstalled TPS. Cranks & turns over but there is nothing happening in terms of ignition. Removed T-belt over, checked and made sure that t-belt was not broken.
7) sprayed carb cleaner at the Cranks angle sensors
8) recharged battery, b/c it died from trying to start it.
9) This Morning: replaced battery, engine cranks and turns over, but does not start. Sounds like it's turning w/ no combustion, then there is a slight stumble like it's going to start, but it's just tricking you. Small ground wire still is getting hot.

Nothing to my knowledge happened between Monday night and Tuesday morning.

Hope that clarifies what I am dealing with.

BW

[oab_au]

If the small ground wire is overheating, then the main ground wire from the negative battery terminal, to the starter is not carrying the starter current. The high starter current is grounding through all the incidental grounds on the engine causing all the other problems.

Harvey.

[SoCal LS-L]

Ok so its the smaller diameter negative cable, the one that grounds right by the battery to the chassis, thats getting hot right?? The main ground to the engine block needs to be cleaned/tightened.... its right next to the starter, bolted by the CTS. It seems like the ground to the chassis is being overloaded from the main having a bad contact. Follow the main ground to the contact on the engine block and clean it with a wire brush.

Edit: Oops, looks like Harvey beat me to it

[oab_au]

Oh Chris great minds think,,,,,,,,,,,,

Harvey.

[SoCal LS-L]

Originally Posted by oab_au

Oh Chris great minds think,,,,,,,,,,,,

Harvey.

Of course!

After I finished responding to this thread, I went out and checked MY engine ground from the battery..... mine was pretty corroded . The wires never got hot but my idle loped pretty drastically every time my fans kicked on or off, so I know something had to be going on electrically. Now I have to wait for the damned southern california traffic to thin out so I can road test it and check the balance of my new Kumhos.

[trophy956]

hi i agree with the ground problem ,the main ground belongs on the upper starter bolt with a lock washer ,your tps code is there because it ground through the vavle body main ground and since electrcity takes the path of least resistanace the smaller ground wire is being over loaded,just try a jumper cable to the block from the negiive side of the battery and see if it starts
good luck

[oab_au]

You might check the ground behind the inlet manifold to the firewall, has probably taken a burn up as a result.

Harvey.

[s'ko]

Originally Posted by SoCal LS-L

Of course!

After I finished responding to this thread, I went out and checked MY engine ground from the battery..... mine was pretty corroded . The wires never got hot but my idle loped pretty drastically every time my fans kicked on or off, so I know something had to be going on electrically. Now I have to wait for the damned southern california traffic to thin out so I can road test it and check the balance of my new Kumhos.

Let me know when you go for a cruise, I might try to join you.

BW

[SoCal LS-L]

Cool, been wanting to cruise the PCH down to San Diego for some time. I know theres a couple guys in Irvine too, maybe we could have a mini meet n go to da beach!

[s'ko]

wanted to close the loop on this thread and report that it was a bad ground.

Rewired it and it's working like a champ.

Too bad I got a parking ticket for leaving on the street sweeper side