Code 14? / Code 24?

[TomsSVX]

Originally Posted by svxfiles

Sorry.

Please note that a crank sensor code (or a cam sensor code) can be caused by a bad two wire water temp sensor.

an explanation would be great this confuses me as well

Tom

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by svxfiles

Sorry.

Please note that a crank sensor code (or a cam sensor code) can be caused by a bad two wire water temp sensor.

Do you mean that if some idiot replaces a crank or cam sensor with a water temp, sensor this will give a code? Or are you suggesting that a faulty temp. sensor in its correct place, can result in a crank or cam sensor code?

[svxfiles]

Originally Posted by Trevor

Or are you suggesting that a faulty temp. sensor in its correct place, can result in a crank or cam sensor code?

Yes.
As crazy as it sounds a bad two wire water temp sensor can cause a no start condition, and throw incorrect codes, like the cam and crank sensor codes.

Tom

[svxfiles]

Originally Posted by TomsSVX

an explanation would be great this confuses me as well

Tom

Grasshopper, You forget my #?

[YourConfused]

OK, so I have injested too many exhaust fumes and am not feeling all that hot. After letting the car sit w/ the batt unplugged I started it up tonight, ran it up to operating temp, and shut it down. 2 cycles

Several things to note:

There is only a code 23 now. I thought it went away??

The idle is that of a car w/ a bad vac leak.
I hooked up a vac guage (tried 2 just to be sure) and got a decent stable reading of around 23" when the idle was stable. Basically after the car entered closed loop mode the idle would begin to fluctuate. The ecu would try and correct, but would over compensate until it reached that point. Point being a jump to 1500 rpm and the resulting fall would kill the car. Starts around 600rpm, goes up to 700 rpm, falls to 550 rpm, goes to 800 rpm, falls to 500 rpm, goes to.... You get the idea.
I see this as a lack of data from the MAF.

I need to find the info on the maf wires so I can check them, but figure I may as well wait till I get that scope so I can watch things real time.

I had cozycat on the odepaj on the phone to hear the exhaust sound. Marisa was something like "is that a motor cycle" cause it sounded like a harley.

No MAF , in my mind, could explain the running a little rich, exhaust pulses showing late combustion, not running properly in open loop, unregulated idle, and the code 23.

I don't know where the other codes went or where they came from.

I (from a cleared ecu state) did the start car, run till open loop, read codes, check values and shut off twice tonight.

I appreciate the help and info here, so I hope doing the exact same procedure twice will eliminate any false readings and make the problem apparent.

I have a MAF issue. I should start looking for the reciept and warranty info I guess.

[Trevor]

You have approached everything logically and should trust your own judgement. Taking into account the weird codes you have had registered, surely you are being kind in not also doubting the ecutune 2V7F as being directly involved.

[Beav]

14 is specifically...? Inj, #1 ckt?

When you have a code you need to stop and think about the specific wording and how the ECU would determine what it 'thinks' is wrong. If it is "#1 Injector ckt or injector fault" how would it determine that? Power to the injectors is common to all, or at least three (each bank.) The ECU grounds the injector when it wants it to function. That means the ECU would expect to read voltage on the ground circuit of the injector until its driver grounds it, then it would read -0- volts. Now maybe it is seeing ground on that injector circuit all the time, even when it isn't commanded. That would mean you have a short to ground on that individual circuit and when the harness is attached to the injector it would flow, non-stop.

Obviously the easiest (read:lazy) thing to do would be to unplug #1 injector and start the engine. A misfire on #1 would be expected but the excessive fueling issue should not be present. Of course, I hope you would check the injector harness for a short to ground. These cars are aging and it doesn't take much to knock some insulation off. Also, you should know better than to introduce too many new items at one time, doing so creates a potential diagnostic nightmare for yourself.

[YourConfused]

Well Trevor I have done what I can with what I have here. I am aggravated w/ the car and just wished I would have never bought the thing in the first place. Instead I have just been dumping thousands of dollars into it (parts only as I do all the work) and would have been better off getting something else.
I am not one of those 'throwing parts at it' kind of guys as I truly must know what the real problem is that is causing the other problems. [ ie: a worn plug causes undue stress on the wires/coil (vehicle dependant) causing stress on the ignition module, which leads to system breakdown, electricity seeks the path of less resistance...)
I truly do want to blame ecutune/LAN for my issues. But before I go and do such a thing I must make sure that I have covered all my bases. If Mike asks a question of me I want to be certain that I can answer him honestly with all the correct data to back my answer up. All and all I do want to blame someone other than myself, I just have to be sure first. (stupid conscience)

Beav: Thanks for your input here (as well as all others that have posted) on my matter. I have the knowledge already of what you have posted and have applied this to the tests I have performed.
I do not at this time have all the diagnostic tools needed to test everything as I would like. 2 days till an O-scope! I am excited as this will give me a great advantage concerning my troubles.
I have tried the un-plug test and other tests as you have thoughtfully brought up, but didn't see any real gain in observable data, so I didn't post such things. I am walking the line of a lazy poster and providing necessary details here.

Why won't those elves that hide my parts fix my car while they are at it?

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Beav

14 is specifically...? Inj, #1 ckt?

Also, you should know better than to introduce too many new items at one time, doing so creates a potential diagnostic nightmare for yourself.

Hi Beav, welcome back with your added wisdom.

The above instruction is what so many here ignore and as a result wind up with their knitting in a tangle. I have stressed the point many times to no avail.

[YourConfused]

Originally Posted by Trevor

Hi Beav, welcome back with your added wisdom.

The above instruction is what so many here ignore and as a result wind up with their knitting in a tangle. I have stressed the point many times to no avail.

Yeah that is part of my internal aggravation here. I did too much at once.
Like I stated in the first post here, I am trying to keep this system related.
I don't see how a trans swap could affect this issue. I changed my tail lights and steering wheel too. None of that is relevant as far as I am concerned. If I am wrong then let me know.

On that note I will comprise a complete list of what has been done to the car whether it is relevant to this issue or not. I may have missed something obvious in it all and that may be my issue. I don't think so, but I like to hear others opinions on things.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by YourConfused

Yeah that is part of my internal aggravation here. I did too much at once.
Like I stated in the first post here, I am trying to keep this system related.
I don't see how a trans swap could affect this issue. I changed my tail lights and steering wheel too. None of that is relevant as far as I am concerned. If I am wrong then let me know.

On that note I will comprise a complete list of what has been done to the car whether it is relevant to this issue or not. I may have missed something obvious in it all and that may be my issue. I don't think so, but I like to hear others opinions on things.

You did not intentionally fall into this trap as you did not foresee
the fault which developed. The advice applies at the point of investigation, i.e. not to do two things and then test, as you will never know which is which or what is what after a result is obtained.

At this stage if you wish only back track on that which could be relevant.
We do not wish you to drive yourself completely round the bend.

[SVXRide]

okay, so now the ECU thinks the injectors are happy (a good thing!). Have you tried running the car with the climate control on? I know it sounds weird, but LAN has had issues in the past with chips that were coded based on the car's climate control being on (which affects the idle loop). You might also want to consider pulling the O2 sensor and cleaning them up, as they might have gotten a might "sloshed" by all the raw fuel you've been throwing at them
-Bill

[YourConfused]

Going back over the many helpful ideas here and checking out what is going on currently, I have come to a single fault. I am not getting any power to my MAF.
My neighbor wants me to hurry up and get the thing running because he wants to go for a cruise in it, almost as bad as i do. I have 4 wires hooked up to the MAF. going from the T.B. side to the airbox side I will call these wires 1,2,3,4.

I believe (and as confirmed by OT) I should get a 12V, ground, ground, ground. These are measurements taken with the key on and using chassis ground.

I get -3.3 if checked as a positive, ground, ground, ground. Where is my power? Is there a possibility that the ecutune chip could result in a reading like this? I may as well remove the mod and test again.

I used an ESD mat and arm band hooked to it while doing the ecu work. I don't see anything I could have done to screw things up. (I've been working on pc's for over a decade btw) The before and after of the cars running state tells that something is awry though.

I am a few tests away from pointing fingers and I hope I am not the one I get to point the finger at as I would be rather embarrassed. My transmission on the otherhand may result in a much different thread.

[Trevor]

Here is what I wrote up on the MAF some time ago and which may help.

Mass Airflow Sensor.

MAF measurement is achieved by heating with a constant electric current, an element comprised of wire/gauze/grid whatever, suspended in the intake air stream of the engine. The electrical resistance of the wire/gauze/grid, element, increases with the temperature, which limits electrical current flowing through a circuit which it is part of. When air flows past the wire, the wire cools thus decreasing its resistance, which in turn allows more current to flow through the circuit. As more current flows, the wire’s temperature increases until the resistance again reaches an equilibrium.

N.B. The amount of CURRENT required to maintain the wire’s electrical resistance at an equilibrium, is directly proportional to the mass of air flowing past the wire.

If air density increases due to an atmospheric pressure or temperature change, but the moving air volume remains constant, the denser air will conduct more heat from the wire, so that as a result, higher mass airflow will be indicated thus offsetting what could otherwise constitute an error.

You will see that a heater is involved which requires constant voltage at battery level, applied when the ignition switched is turned on. You should be able to measure 10 - 13 volts between MAF terminals 1 and 3 or ground. With the engine running the voltage should increase to 13 -14 volts.

With the engine running at idle, there should be 0.8 - 1.2 volts between terminal 4 and 3 or ground, this being the signal voltage.

It would appear that you have localised a fault which will surely be causing multiple problems. However it is difficult to assume that this could be caused by the ecutune 2V7F, as only constant supply is involved.

[svxistentialist]

Originally Posted by Beav

14 is specifically...? Inj, #1 ckt?

When you have a code you need to stop and think about the specific wording and how the ECU would determine what it 'thinks' is wrong. If it is "#1 Injector ckt or injector fault" how would it determine that? Power to the injectors is common to all, or at least three (each bank.) The ECU grounds the injector when it wants it to function. That means the ECU would expect to read voltage on the ground circuit of the injector until its driver grounds it, then it would read -0- volts. Now maybe it is seeing ground on that injector circuit all the time, even when it isn't commanded. That would mean you have a short to ground on that individual circuit and when the harness is attached to the injector it would flow, non-stop.

Obviously the easiest (read:lazy) thing to do would be to unplug #1 injector and start the engine. A misfire on #1 would be expected but the excessive fueling issue should not be present. Of course, I hope you would check the injector harness for a short to ground. These cars are aging and it doesn't take much to knock some insulation off. Also, you should know better than to introduce too many new items at one time, doing so creates a potential diagnostic nightmare for yourself.

Hi Beav

Sound advice. One thing at a time, sweet Jeezus, isn't that how the song goes??

How are you keeping? I haven't seen you post for a long time. You're missed 'round here.

Joe