Electrical Quandary

[Trevor]

All the measurements you have taken, accurately I would asses, show all the circuits tested are normal. At this stage it is very difficult to understand how there can be a relationship between the flasher and headlight circuits, but I have my thinking cap on and will get back to you.

There has been progress and you are doing just fine, particularly in measuring across fuses. I had doubts about suggesting this, as I anticipated that making connections would not be easy. Advise on your method as it could assist others.

P.S. After deliberating ---- You have not confirmed that the headlights dimmed with the flasher removed and bypassed. This was the object of measuring the voltage at the headlights. At this stage simply confirm by observing the lights.

It is becoming increasingly evident, that we are likely to be dealing with some mod that has been made to the original wiring.

[Nomake Wan]

Sure. My method is most effective with the fuses under the hood, and is downright a pain in the butt for the fuses in the kick panel. All I did was take the test leads with alligator clips on the end, strip two wires and put one in each clip, then split the ends of the wires until they were thin enough to be pushed into the fuse sockets. Once they were firmly seated it would test accurately. However, getting them into the kick panel is very difficult because you have both space and gravity against you. It takes me about ten minutes to get the leads securely into Fuse #1.

If you honestly wish me to, I can go back and test at the headlights. I tested at the cigarette lighter instead, because it was one of the items which loses power with a turn signal (those being instrument panel indicator lights, headlights, and cigarette lighter). I have not assumed any link between the turn signals and headlights directly, but instead assume a link between activating the headlights and losing power to everything, including headlights.

Also, my replacement instrument panel arrived today, so I will be able to swap it in and see if I magically get backlighting. If I do, awesome. If not, I have some more hunting to do. Possibly in the turn signal stalk (rheostat).

[Trevor]

Refer my P.S. which crossed with your post. You have now confirmed that the lighting did in fact dim, but your measurements recorded only 0.1 - 0.3 voltage drop. I would not have expected this to have much affect in respect of brilliance. Can you shed any more light on this. Pun

Do not replace the instrument panel at this stage, By so doing you will introduce new variables. I can see no logical reason for the indicator switch to cause the problem as your testing rules it out of the equation.

[Nomake Wan]

I sadly cannot shed any more light on the problem. I turn on a turn signal, my dash lights (little LEDs powered by the cigarette lighter) dim along with the gear indicator, warning lights, and headlights. I honestly cannot explain this. The meter read what it did. But the meter is... wrong.

I know, it can't be wrong. But I'm not imagining this phenomena. I'm tempted to take a short video with my crappy digital camera just to prove that I'm not going absolutely insane.

All right, I will not touch the panel. Have we ruled out the control stalk or is that still a possibility?

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Nomake Wan

Have we ruled out the control stalk or is that still a possibility?

Ruled out, as per my previous advice.

I know this is driving you up the wall, as it is me.

However advise as well as you can, just how much the the headlights dim. Slightly, quite noticeably, enough to not provide worthwhile illumination, whatever. You will understand why a voltage check at the headlights would be useful.

[Nomake Wan]

The headlights dim slightly. They still provide ample illumination for the situation (as 90% of the time I have a flasher on I'm at a complete stop at an intersection), so there isn't any danger from the dimming. It is simply an annoyance.

I will see what I can do about getting a proper voltage check at the headlights. It appears that today it will rain very hard, so I may not have an exact value for you for a day or so.

EDIT: Oh, and the climate control also does something very strange. While the lights dim when the flashers are in the "on" cycle... the climate control fans actually sound like they're increasing in speed. What do you make of that? If they were losing power they'd go slower, but that's not the case. They speed up in the "on" part of the cycle and return to normal in the "off" part.

[Trevor]

I had been assuming that the lights dimmed to a marked degree. Your report now puts a different slant on the issue. We could be looking at resistance in a major feed circuit such that, the addition of the flashed load, just tips the scales towards a noticeable drop in voltage.

What do you observe by way of comparison, engine and alternator running/engine stopped, idle speed/higher RPM? l.e. what should be a line voltage of approximately 12 volts verses 14 volts. Questions, questions, but all are relevant and the answers are of value.

[Nomake Wan]

I would have to go do another voltage test to be certain, but here are my observations:

Car being on or off or at higher revs does not affect the degree of lighting change. Meaning, I can be cruising at a good clip or at a dead stop or parked with the car off--the lights will dim all the same.

Did you see my edit above about the climate control system? I think it's worth noting that the climate control seems to gain power rather than lose it.

[Trevor]

Thanks,

Your comment regarding the climate control fans is to put it mildly, is BAFFLING. Maybe a control circuit voltage is dropping, causing a sensor error.

[Nomake Wan]

Tomorrow I am taking the car for detailing work. I will attempt to get a video of the phenomena before then. I have to agree with you that this issue has completely and utterly baffled me.

[Trevor]

At this point forget about a voltage check on the headlights, as this will be time consuming. Carefully check all fuse boxes, particularly where you found extraneous wiring had been attached.

Look for fuses making poor contact, and likewise loom connections. The latter will require lifting the unit from its mounting. Also look for anything foreign, damaged or messed with. Corrosion possibly causing a partial short circuit path. Borrow Sherlock Holmes big magnifying glass.

[Nomake Wan]

Fortunately, I happen to have a MASSIVE magnifying glass!

Any particular special procedure on removing the two fuse boxes to inspect the looms?

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Nomake Wan

Fortunately, I happen to have a MASSIVE magnifying glass!

Any particular special procedure on removing the two fuse boxes to inspect the looms?

Simply unscrew or whatever, there could be some form of secret clip for snap on and easy assembly. This is the age of snap, crap and plastic. Swing out the unit as much as you can, to inspect the underside without damaging anything. The idea is to see if the vandal has been in there before. Check where you know he/she (I must remain PC ) has been before.

[Nomake Wan]

Well, no progress on the odd power stuff going on, but I accidentally made progress on the dash lighting problem.

Accidentally because I was planning to swap in my new shifter lever and surround, but found out after I'd disassembled everything that I didn't know how to get the wires for the Manual Switch out of the wiring harness. And without those wires disconnected I can't get the handle out to replace it... grah!!!!

That frustration aside, I decided to do a test since I had everything apart. I replaced the bulb in the shifter column (backlight) with a new one and turned the ignition to on, then turned on the headlights and made sure the lighting rheostat was up all the way.

Guess what? No light. No response no matter what I did with the rheostat knob.

So... good news is, I don't have fifty billion bulbs to replace. Bad news is, some part of the circuit for the backlights is broken. And if I had to guess I'd say it was the rheostat itself...

In that event, is there a way to replace the rheostat without replacing the turn signal stalk? If not, is there a way to replace the turn signal stalk without replacing the whole steering column?

Thanks everybody...

[Nomake Wan]

I'm bringing this thread back from the dead because it contains information relevant to the supplements I'm about to add to it. This way, if somehow I miss something in what I'm about to post, there are five pages of material to cover it.

I want to return to the "turn signals dim the panel indicators" issue, but this time I'm adding something else into the mix: the brake pedal dims the indicators too. Just touching the pedal enough to activate the rear lights causes the same indicators that dim with the turn signals to dim. Here's a video I took of the dimming caused by tapping the brake pedal.



Interesting, eh? Now, this one thought occurred to me... the turn signals dim the indicators and headlights. The brake lights dim the indicators and headlights. And the trunk illumination light does not come on (I've replaced the bulb with a brand new one to no avail). My focus is (perhaps wrongly?) shifting to the tail section of the car.

Speculation aside, I also have videos for the turn signal phenomena. Firstly, since now I have actual working backlit gauges, I noticed that the gauge illumination isn't as affected by the turn signals as the other indicators are. That is, the indicators which are NOT on the illumination circuit (shift indicator, dash warning indicators, etc) seem to dim more than the gauge illumination does. Odd. Here's a video to demonstrate that.



And finally, a video to clearly, clearly, clearly show what happens when you turn on the turn signals or the hazard switch. Note that when either turn signal is on you get significant dimming, whereas when I turn on the hazard switch the dimming is not nearly as apparent.



I did take a video to demonstrate the "turn signal being on makes climate control speed up" phenomenon, but the microphone on my camera only picked up the wind noise and not the fan noise.

Do the videos make it clearer for everyone as to what my problem is? I hope so. And perhaps it will finally answer the age-old question...

...is Nomake's SVX actually broken or is this normal?