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  #16  
Old 08-27-2006, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVXRide
Dan,
I've got two sets of the RaceConcepts dimple drilled and slotted rotors - purchased before Wood sold the company. I didn't know they even sold drilled versions like the ones on your car.
-Bill
RaceConcepts currently has rotors on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/92-97...spagenameZWDVW

They are offering DRILLED/SLOTTED rotors for $164.99 for a complete set of front/rear rotors. Here are the additional configurations that are offered:

Slotted only (add $32.00/set)
Drilled only (add $32.00/set)
Dimpled and Slotted (add $32.00/set)
Bored and Slotted (add $60.00/set)
.
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Last edited by svxcess; 08-28-2006 at 12:10 AM.
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  #17  
Old 08-27-2006, 10:07 PM
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Since you've been taking your SVX to the track, do you have problems with brake fade?
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  #18  
Old 08-28-2006, 01:52 AM
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2 things:

1) send that picture to Ben at Raceconcepts... I'm sure he is very interested, and might be able to help you out on a new set.

2) I've been trying to convince people on this sight forever... Drilling/boring/dimpleing... ALL bad ideas.


Best solution for rotors is cheap, solid or slotted only disks, and replace them more often. Cryo treating may help, however I still can't accept the "technology" behind it, because if you look at it from a metallurgical standpoint, any change that would happen in the carbon/structure of the metal, would be undone as soon as the rotor hits 700* or so, which ANY rotor that is tracked will do.

Ben is a good guy, and the products are solid... Oh, and your zinc plating was removed really quickly... I've got rotors from 2-3 years ago that still have all of it, even inside the slots once you clear out the brake pad material. It's possible that you use, or have used some chemical cleaning agent that removed the zinc prematurely.
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  #19  
Old 08-28-2006, 02:40 PM
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I haven't done any special cleaning on the wheels or the discs. Just overheated them on the track, and subjected them to NE road salt. At first, the shine dimmed until the hats had a dull gray soapy look. Then they began to rust. Inside of drilled holes has now rusted, along with outer edge of disc.

Agree with you about drilling. Next set will be slotted only. Got a pretty good price from Frozen Rotors for new slotted cryo front discs. May go with that. Not that much more than Ben's

I have not had problems with brake fade, at all, and I use them pretty hard, to the extent that my ABS is coming on. When you are dropping from 120 to about 45-50 with ABS, that's pretty hard, but no fade. I think that good pads Axxis Ultimates, Wilwood 570 fluid, and the slotted rotors (leaving out drilling as an issue) makes for areally good track-day setup for this car.
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  #20  
Old 08-29-2006, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svxcess
RaceConcepts currently has rotors on ebay:

They are offering DRILLED/SLOTTED rotors for $164.99 for a complete set of front/rear rotors. Here are the additional configurations that are offered:

Slotted only (add $32.00/set)
Drilled only (add $32.00/set)
Dimpled and Slotted (add $32.00/set)
Bored and Slotted (add $60.00/set)
So slotted only or drilled only cost MORE than slotted and drilled?
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  #21  
Old 08-30-2006, 01:58 PM
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They must have extra stock.

I thought I read that brake fade was actually caused by boiling fluid.

I ran an Auto-x on tuesday and did not experience any brake fade (damn pivot cones). This is with stock rotors, stock rear pads but KVR front pads (not a recommended combination).
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  #22  
Old 08-30-2006, 02:50 PM
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I have seen my rear brake pads (metal masters) smoking, but have never sensed any loss of braking capacity.
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  #23  
Old 08-30-2006, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthworm
They must have extra stock.

I thought I read that brake fade was actually caused by boiling fluid.

I ran an Auto-x on tuesday and did not experience any brake fade (damn pivot cones). This is with stock rotors, stock rear pads but KVR front pads (not a recommended combination).
Hi Dave, "brake fade" is a term that covers a lot of brake maladies. It is really a hang over from the drum brake days. It was caused by boiling the brake fluid, to get a sponge pedal. Or the drums expanded to have the pedal hit the floor. Or it was just resin deposits from the linings on the drum surface.

Discs are mostly immune from this, except that the fluid can boil if it is old or poor quality, to give a spongy pedal. This can be made worse when braking down from high speed to stop, and holding the brakes on. The heat from the disc is fed into the pads and fluid.

Most of what we call fade now is from the pad deposits left on the disc to lower the frictional qualities of the disc.

Harvey.
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  #24  
Old 08-31-2006, 02:06 AM
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An interesting thread. Might I make a few observations?

The original poster seems to be saying that his brake discs are dished, so that not all of the pad makes contact with the dish surface.

A conventionally warped brake disc would be 'wavy' and appear to wobble when rotated, which leads to pulsations and vibrations when the car is braked. I cannot conceive of any reason that could account for a dished disc, other than that they were made like that in the first place!

If the discs are merely dished then I would expect that once the brake pads have 'bedded in' to match the disc profile then the brakes will be just fine.

With regard to brake fade, all brakes fade (or to be more accurate show a variation of braking efficiency as the brake temperature changes). Even the most asthmatic car can heat it's brake disks up to not just a dull red glow, but bright orange!

The manufacturer chooses the brake components to be more than adequate for the situations likely to be encountered in normal use, and for the braking efficiency to degrade in a non-catastrophic fashion as the limits are approached. But, like most things in life, it's a compromise, the brakes shouldn't need excessively high pedal pressures, be excessively grabby or snatchy, not wear out too fast, not be noisy, not generate too much dust, and fade predictably and not too frighteningly. If your use is not normal then by all means upgrade the brakes, but they are likely to be noisier/snatchier/dustier or whatever as a result.

Brake fluid boiling is not brake fade, it is catastrophic brake system failure. You might just survive localised micro-boiling in the braking system, the brake pedal goes spongy and sinks ever closer to the carpet, and pumping the pedal might just help a little, for a little while, but the fluid is just going to boil all the more violently as you put more and more heat into the system, until the pedal is mashed right down into the carpet and you have no brakes at all.

Finally, and on a lighter note, if the brakes are called disc brakes, why do some countries persist in calling the major component a rotor?
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  #25  
Old 08-31-2006, 05:58 AM
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As I have continued to use the car, waiting for new pads and rotors to arrive, have been less than gentle with the brakes. The rotors are somewhat wavy, in that the circular stripe has begun to erode in sections, leaving intermittent traces of its former self, indicating that the dish is not uniform around the circumference of the rotor. I think I have another week or so, before I change everything out, and will continue to abuse the current brakes, just to see what happens. It may be that there was some sort of pad warpage or something, instead of rotor warping, leaving the center of the pad not in good contact with the rotor, and I'm now just re-bedding the pads to the rotor. In any event, I don't feel confident to take this set-up back on the track, and will replace front rotors and all pads before my next outing.
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94 LS-i Emerald Pearl, 106,xxx,; 246 whp; Tomyx snorkus and HKS Cold air intake; PWR aluminum radiator, silicone hoses; Inline thermostat; enhanced coolant routing; external power steering and oil coolers; Phenolic intake manifold spacers; 2004 WRX 5 speed transmission; ACT Clutch Kit, Heavy Duty Pressure Plate, Lightweight flywheel, performance disc; Group N motor mounts; ‘07 WRX 4-pot front calipers, cryo-treated slotted Tribeca rotors; Hawk HPS ferro-carbon pads; Frozenrotor rear slotted rotors; SS brake lines, Axxis Ultimate pads; Rota Torque 17x8 wheels; 245/40-17 Bridgestone RE01-R's; Koni inserts with Ground Control coilovers, Eibach springs; K-Mac camber/caster adjustable strut mounts; Urethane swaybar bushings; Bontrager rear sway bar; Urethane differential bushing; Custom Whiteline adjustable rear lateral links; Outlaw Engineering forged underdrive pulley; custom grind Web intake and exhaust cams (11 mm lift, 250° duration); solid lifters; CP custom aluminum forged 11 to 1 pistons, Brian Crower coated SS intake & exhaust valves; Brian Crower upgraded springs w/ titanium retainers; NGK sparkplugs; RallyBob (Bob Legere) ported and polished cylinder heads; Eagle H-beam rods; ACL Bearings; Cometic Head gaskets; ARP head studs & fasteners; Hydra Nemesis EMS; Wideband O2 sensor; 740cc Injectors; Walbro 255lph fuel pump; Upgraded WRX starter; Equal length SS headers (3 into 1); dual Magnaflow cat converters; 2 into 1 into 2 SS exhaust with Bullet muffler; OT Fiberglass hood; Oil pressure gauge; Programmable shift light,

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2005 Porsche 911 Turbo S Cabrio, 24,xxx

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  #26  
Old 08-31-2006, 09:00 PM
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Dan,
we probably shouldn't forget your use of trail braking while on the track and it's impact on the rotors...
-Bill
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  #27  
Old 09-04-2006, 09:42 PM
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brakes

get the big brake kit for the svx. you will probably need new wheels as well depending on your wheels. of course you already have ss brake lines?
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