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  #16  
Old 09-11-2016, 06:28 PM
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svxfiles svxfiles is offline
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Re: Manual transmission causes crankshaft wear!

Ok, so yesterday and today I was able to speak with a respected Subaru ,mechanic who works at a "big city'' Subaru garage and he has never heard of this problem. As background he runs a 500+ HP Impreza. Nuf said.
Any way although he agreed with the idea of the wear could be caused by the clutch, he had not seen it himself. He also said that the five main bearing 2.5s have only one thrust bearing. I will verify that at the local Subaru garage perhaps as soon as tomorrow.
HOWEVER when I mentioned that the engine had only used 10/30 Mobil1 oil, both he and his friend, another racer freeked out and said that Mobil1 is too thin for a Subaru engine!?!?
They both recommended Rotella 5/40.
So when the new crankshaft goes in, Rotilla goes in too.
More on this later.
T
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  #17  
Old 09-12-2016, 06:22 PM
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Re: Manual transmission causes crankshaft wear!

OK, I went to the local Subaru garage and one of the mechanics had a 2014 WRX engine dissassembled. The crankshaft looked to be 52mm, the width seems to be the same size. (Did not have any measuring tools with me)
The big thing is the shoulder was about 1/8" taller per side.
Considering how the bearings are designed that should easily add 50% more bearing surface, IF IT CAN BE USED! Hopefully before the week is out I can borrow the used bearing, take the block off of the stand, dissassemble it to where I can it for fitment.
T
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The first SuperCharged SVX,
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  #18  
Old 09-14-2016, 05:55 PM
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Re: Manual transmission causes crankshaft wear!

Went again to the local Subaru garage and was given one half of the thrust bearing to check fitment.It is wider than the stock replacement bearing, but I will crack open the block to see if it fits on another journal.
Get back to youse guys as soon as I find out.
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The first SuperCharged SVX,
the first 4.44 gears,
the first equal length headers,
the first phenolic spacers,
the first Class Glass fiberglass hood,
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  #19  
Old 09-14-2016, 10:24 PM
bishop bishop is offline
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Re: Manual transmission causes crankshaft wear!

I'm taking notes.
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  #20  
Old 09-15-2016, 11:54 AM
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Re: Manual transmission causes crankshaft wear!

Just pulled the engine apart to see if the wrx thrust bearing will fit on any of the seven journals, NOPE!
Without machining the block or crankshaft for the necessary clearance I don't believe anything will fit.
This time I will assemble it with King AM bearings. I contacted them earlier today and they are supossed to get back to me.
If nothing else maybe they will make up a set of seven main bearings instead of us having to buy two sets of five for a 2.2 (1999 Impreza).
The King AM series are all aluminum/silicone and according to LAN at ECUTune, they are much preferred to the tri-metal bearings from Sealed Power and similar bearings.\
Tom
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The first SuperCharged SVX,
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the first phenolic spacers,
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  #21  
Old 09-16-2016, 05:17 PM
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svxfiles svxfiles is offline
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Re: Manual transmission causes crankshaft wear!

Spoke with a tech rep at King Bearings for more than 1/2 hour today.

(Just so there is no confusion the SVX 3.3 does have 60mm main journals on the crankshaft and 52mm crank pin journals, IF the crankshaft has not been machined by someone other than Subaru.)

The only way I can see to get another thrust bearing in there is to machine the crankshaft.

So for a performance rebuild he (the King Bearing tech) would recommend a pair of King CR4125XPG sets for the connecting rods and a pair of MB5250XP sets for the main bearings.
Two sets gets you ten main bearings for the required seven main bearing crankshaft and two sets of connecting rod bearings gets you eight rod bearings for the required six rod bearings.
This is his recommendation for a RACE build not just a regular rebuild.
His reasoning is that on a race engine the bearings take a harder pounding and these bearings use a stronger copper, a stronger lead and the babbitt coating is half as thick.
This lessens the chance of the babbitt coating flaking off.
This is a different opinion than that of LAN at ECUTune who recommends an aluminum/silicone bearing for the main bearings.
I have not yet had a chance to talk to Mike/LAN about this.
I have the HIGHEST respect for Mike and will call him about this.
I just got off the phone with a guy who has a 1200hp 3.3 twin turbo in his road race/hill climb Impreza about what bearings he uses.
He is OK with this bearing recommendation on a race engine.
For a race engine he thinks the King bearings should only be used if they are XP or XPG.
In the mean time I believe that I will wire in a clutch switch that does not allow the starter to be engaged when the clutch pedal is depressed, AND switching to an oil with a higher zink level than Mobil1.
Perhaps, more on this later.
Tom
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The first SuperCharged SVX,
the first 4.44 gears,
the first equal length headers,
the first phenolic spacers,
the first Class Glass fiberglass hood,
the first with 4, 4.44s in his driveway


Fiberglass Hood thread
My locker
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Last edited by svxfiles; 09-16-2016 at 05:20 PM. Reason: More detail.
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  #22  
Old 09-17-2016, 12:10 PM
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Re: Manual transmission causes crankshaft wear!

Interesting, if im right using these in a street engine wouldnt be any worse than a race engine yes? Like we dont have to expect lower lifespan just because they are expected to be beaten on?
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  #23  
Old 09-17-2016, 01:01 PM
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Re: Manual transmission causes crankshaft wear!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bishop View Post
Interesting, if im right using these in a street engine wouldnt be any worse than a race engine yes? Like we dont have to expect lower lifespan just because they are expected to be beaten on?
The honest answer is I don't really know.

LAN really prefers the aluminum/silicone bearings.
An engine producing the stockish horse power would most likely benefit from the softer bearings.

Whatever bearings that you choose to go with, I think that the start in neutral policy is the best thing we can do.
Along with a high in zink content.
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The first SuperCharged SVX,
the first 4.44 gears,
the first equal length headers,
the first phenolic spacers,
the first Class Glass fiberglass hood,
the first with 4, 4.44s in his driveway


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My locker
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  #24  
Old 09-26-2016, 05:37 PM
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Re: Manual transmission causes crankshaft wear!

Subscribed.
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  #25  
Old 09-27-2016, 09:41 AM
SoobCrazy SoobCrazy is offline
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Re: Manual transmission causes crankshaft wear!

I'm having a hard time accepting this theory. How is the design of the main and thrust bearings different on the EG33 vs. any of FHI's other engines? Besides the motion of the clutch being released, all FHI engines see the same forces in relation to the starter, transmission resistance, etc.

Why would the engineers design an engine with significantly different architecture? It just doesn't compute. The choice to sell the car with an automatic only would not cause the engineers to design an engine that could not accept the forces of a clutch being actuated.

The basic engine design and specifications were finalized long before the car was released, and was heavily influenced by all prior FHI engine designs.
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  #26  
Old 09-27-2016, 05:11 PM
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Re: Manual transmission causes crankshaft wear!

Quote:
Originally Posted by svxfiles View Post
The honest answer is I don't really know.

LAN really prefers the aluminum/silicone bearings.
An engine producing the stockish horse power would most likely benefit from the softer bearings.

Whatever bearings that you choose to go with, I think that the start in neutral policy is the best thing we can do.
Along with a high in zink content.
Zinc is not as critical as molybdenum and no oil has as much as Red Line.

Do you ever plan on responding to my emails?
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  #27  
Old 09-27-2016, 05:40 PM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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Re: Manual transmission causes crankshaft wear!

Quote:
Originally Posted by svxfiles View Post
The honest answer is I don't really know.

LAN really prefers the aluminum/silicone bearings.
An engine producing the stockish horse power would most likely benefit from the softer bearings.

Whatever bearings that you choose to go with, I think that the start in neutral policy is the best thing we can do.
Along with a high in zink content.
Giday Tom, I would prefer the Tri Metal bearings over the Aluminium Tin, for a road car, modified or not. The problem with the Aluminium is that the surface coating has very little embedability for the surface, so that they hold surface grit on the surface of the bearing to cause wear, and scoring of the crank pin.
The Lead coating allows the grit to embed into the lead holding the grit away from the pin so that there is very little scoring of the pin. The Copper bearings have very good heat handling qualities for the load.
Cheers Harvey.
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  #28  
Old 09-27-2016, 06:24 PM
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Re: Manual transmission causes crankshaft wear!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskymaniac View Post
Zinc is not as critical as molybdenum and no oil has as much as Red Line.

Do you ever plan on responding to my emails?
What e-Mails?!
kyleerocket@yahoo.com
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The first SuperCharged SVX,
the first 4.44 gears,
the first equal length headers,
the first phenolic spacers,
the first Class Glass fiberglass hood,
the first with 4, 4.44s in his driveway


Fiberglass Hood thread
My locker
4.44 Swap link
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  #29  
Old 09-27-2016, 06:35 PM
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svxfiles svxfiles is offline
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Re: Manual transmission causes crankshaft wear!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoobCrazy View Post
I'm having a hard time accepting this theory. How is the design of the main and thrust bearings different on the EG33 vs. any of FHI's other engines? Besides the motion of the clutch being released, all FHI engines see the same forces in relation to the starter, transmission resistance, etc.

Why would the engineers design an engine with significantly different architecture? It just doesn't compute. The choice to sell the car with an automatic only would not cause the engineers to design an engine that could not accept the forces of a clutch being actuated.

The basic engine design and specifications were finalized long before the car was released, and was heavily influenced by all prior FHI engine designs.
Soob, I am only bringing light to a subject that until recently was the farthest thing from my mind!
We know that the 3.3 was never designed for a manual transmission.
And we are now finding out that only the higher pressure clutch/pressure plate engines show this problem.
I am trying to help here. This is real. If you disagree, thats ok,
I am still looking at ways to reduce the problem. When I (if I) find a better fix I will share it.
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The first SuperCharged SVX,
the first 4.44 gears,
the first equal length headers,
the first phenolic spacers,
the first Class Glass fiberglass hood,
the first with 4, 4.44s in his driveway


Fiberglass Hood thread
My locker
4.44 Swap link
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  #30  
Old 09-28-2016, 07:58 AM
SoobCrazy SoobCrazy is offline
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Re: Manual transmission causes crankshaft wear!

Quote:
Originally Posted by svxfiles View Post
Soob, I am only bringing light to a subject that until recently was the farthest thing from my mind!
I'm not saying that you're wrong or anything (though I sure hope you are!), it just seems odd that this one engine, in the entire history of FHI, has trouble with having a clutch bolted to it.

I don't know at what point in the development FHI decided that the SVX would be a one-trans wonder, but I'd have to speculate that it was somewhere downstream of laying out the engine architecture, thus allowing the engine to be designed for any FHI transmission. <-- My reasoning, probably wrong.
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