The Subaru SVX World Network   SVX Network Forums
Live Chat!
SVX or Subaru Links
Old Lockers
Photo Post
How-To Documents
Message Archive
SVX Shop Search
IRC users:

Go Back   The Subaru SVX World Network > SVX Main Forums > Technical Q & A

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-20-2014, 04:28 AM
Huskymaniac's Avatar
Huskymaniac Huskymaniac is offline
Uses the ignore feature
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Corning, NY
Posts: 1,872
Registered SVX
Rotors and pads

Just about since day 1, my SVX has had brake judder due to "warped" front rotors. It was minor enough that I was going to wait until the pads were worn and swap everything out then. Since my son will be driving the car, I am going to do it now. I have decided on StopTech (Centric) cryogenically treated slotted rotors. The pads are a tougher decision. Street pads that are more likely to deposit crap on the rotors are better at cold stops than performance or racing pads, which are less likely to deposit crap on the rotors. What seems to be a potentially good compromise are the EBC Ultimax pads (Black). They are similar composition to OEM and supposedly have good cold bite. But they also claim to have done something with the composition to avoid depositing crap on the rotors and getting judder. Has anyone tried them?
__________________
Tony

1996 Polo Green Subaru SVX LSi, 168,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 5W50 FS (3qt) and 5W30 High Mileage (4qt) Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, Centric Rotors, Power Stop Evolution Carbon Fiber Ceramic Brake Pads
2005 Gray Acura RL, 165,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF with Lubegard Platinum Protectant, Mobil 1 5W20 High Mileage Extended Performance Oil
2009 Red Toyota Venza, 123,XXX, Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage Oil
1992 Red Ferrari 348 ts, 82,XXX, Redline everything
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-20-2014, 05:06 AM
Tireiron Tireiron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Methuen, MA
Posts: 266
Re: Rotors and pads

Don't use slotted rotors, just use blanks. Centric is very good for rotors. I know stoptech street pads are very good, and the hawk HPS or performance ceramic pads are very good street able pads. I don't have personal experience with the EBC pads so I can't comment on those.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-20-2014, 05:19 AM
Huskymaniac's Avatar
Huskymaniac Huskymaniac is offline
Uses the ignore feature
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Corning, NY
Posts: 1,872
Registered SVX
Re: Rotors and pads

The logic on the rotors has to do with avoiding judder. Slotted rotors stay cooler and keep the pads cooler. Cryo treating makes the rotors more durable so they can stand up to more abrasive pads without wearing too fast and potentially cracking or warping over time. There is some argument over cross drilling versus slotting for keeping brakes cool but there aren't any cryo treated cross drilled options nor are there cryo treated solids. For avoiding judder and long term durability, these are the best rotors I could find.

The Hawk HPS pads were my next choice. But they are a PITA to bed in and I read some concerns over bite when cold.
__________________
Tony

1996 Polo Green Subaru SVX LSi, 168,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 5W50 FS (3qt) and 5W30 High Mileage (4qt) Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, Centric Rotors, Power Stop Evolution Carbon Fiber Ceramic Brake Pads
2005 Gray Acura RL, 165,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF with Lubegard Platinum Protectant, Mobil 1 5W20 High Mileage Extended Performance Oil
2009 Red Toyota Venza, 123,XXX, Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage Oil
1992 Red Ferrari 348 ts, 82,XXX, Redline everything

Last edited by Huskymaniac; 08-20-2014 at 05:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-20-2014, 06:30 AM
processengr's Avatar
processengr processengr is offline
Registered User
Subaru Silver Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Conn.
Posts: 767
Registered SVX
Re: Rotors and pads

Just a FYI, the multi-slotted slotted rotors are noisier than standard rotors-sort of a "crickets" sound when stopping. If you look at Mercedes factory high performance rotors, they will have only one slot for pad cleaning, along with the cast in cross hole cooling...
__________________
Cheers! Gordon
1997 Ebony #308 113k "The Black Diva"SOLD
1992 Black over Liquid Silver 152k SOLD
1992 Ebony 251k 444 SOLD
1999 Silver SLK230 134k SOLD
1997 Green Outback 137k SOLD
2013 Honda Accord I4 SOLD
2015 Subaru Crosstrek 30k
2018 Tesla M3 30k
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-20-2014, 07:31 AM
Huskymaniac's Avatar
Huskymaniac Huskymaniac is offline
Uses the ignore feature
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Corning, NY
Posts: 1,872
Registered SVX
Re: Rotors and pads

Quote:
Originally Posted by processengr View Post
Just a FYI, the multi-slotted slotted rotors are noisier than standard rotors-sort of a "crickets" sound when stopping. If you look at Mercedes factory high performance rotors, they will have only one slot for pad cleaning, along with the cast in cross hole cooling...
StopTech does sell non-cryo treated cross drilled and drilled and slotted rotors. Again, my goal is good cold stopping power plus resistance to judder. Keeping the pad cool seems to be the trick to the judder. The holes seem to do better at keeping the rotor cool (which does help keep the pad cool via conduction) and the slots for keeping the pad cool, from what I read. I know what you mean about Mercedes. Porsche is the same way. However, I recently saw a new Porsche that had slotted rotors from the factory. And people who race swear by the slotted. So many options.....
__________________
Tony

1996 Polo Green Subaru SVX LSi, 168,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 5W50 FS (3qt) and 5W30 High Mileage (4qt) Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, Centric Rotors, Power Stop Evolution Carbon Fiber Ceramic Brake Pads
2005 Gray Acura RL, 165,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF with Lubegard Platinum Protectant, Mobil 1 5W20 High Mileage Extended Performance Oil
2009 Red Toyota Venza, 123,XXX, Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage Oil
1992 Red Ferrari 348 ts, 82,XXX, Redline everything
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-20-2014, 09:19 AM
SVX_MY_BABY's Avatar
SVX_MY_BABY SVX_MY_BABY is offline
Posting since Dec.'98
Subaru Silver Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: HALIFAX Nova Scotia
Posts: 1,472
Registered SVX
Re: Rotors and pads

I have cryo treated ART (Applied Rotor Technologies) slotted rotors. They use Centric blanks. The Performance Friction Carbon Metallic Pads work very well with them. Quiet, low dust, good grip.
http://www.performancefriction.com/a...rake-pads.aspx
__________________
Peter
ART Cryogenic/Slotted Rotors, Stainless Steel Brake Lines, PWR Radiator, Tranny cooler, Stebro, Earthworm's Poly Differential/front & rear swaybar bushings, Koni Inserts and Mychailo SVX Sport Springs all 4 corners, Indigo Blue paint. Liquid Silver Wheels.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-20-2014, 10:01 AM
Huskymaniac's Avatar
Huskymaniac Huskymaniac is offline
Uses the ignore feature
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Corning, NY
Posts: 1,872
Registered SVX
Re: Rotors and pads

How is the grip with those pads on the first stop when it is ice cold outside? Panic stop on the highway in winter is what I am concerned about. And did you find front and rear pads or just front? I only found fronts.
__________________
Tony

1996 Polo Green Subaru SVX LSi, 168,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 5W50 FS (3qt) and 5W30 High Mileage (4qt) Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, Centric Rotors, Power Stop Evolution Carbon Fiber Ceramic Brake Pads
2005 Gray Acura RL, 165,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF with Lubegard Platinum Protectant, Mobil 1 5W20 High Mileage Extended Performance Oil
2009 Red Toyota Venza, 123,XXX, Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage Oil
1992 Red Ferrari 348 ts, 82,XXX, Redline everything
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-20-2014, 10:28 AM
SVX_MY_BABY's Avatar
SVX_MY_BABY SVX_MY_BABY is offline
Posting since Dec.'98
Subaru Silver Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: HALIFAX Nova Scotia
Posts: 1,472
Registered SVX
Re: Rotors and pads

Last time I purchased pads I got Centric Posi-quiet. They are good but I preferred the Performance friction. I bought rotors, callipers and pads from ART. I ordered by part number from my previous order and was surprised to get the Centric.
So to answer your question. Back in 2000 Performance had both front and rear. They required a firm application (not crazy hard) the first couple of times braking from a cold start but after that were fine. Never thought about them. The posi quiet are good but a bit dusty and some squeal.

If I remember correctly the rear brakes are common with a Nissan Pathfinder. I wonder if it's just a glitch in Performance's search engine.
__________________
Peter
ART Cryogenic/Slotted Rotors, Stainless Steel Brake Lines, PWR Radiator, Tranny cooler, Stebro, Earthworm's Poly Differential/front & rear swaybar bushings, Koni Inserts and Mychailo SVX Sport Springs all 4 corners, Indigo Blue paint. Liquid Silver Wheels.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-20-2014, 01:19 PM
SURTEESS's Avatar
SURTEESS SURTEESS is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 1,421
Re: Rotors and pads

I bought drilled/slotted/gold passivated rotors/discs from Dayle at the Motorsport Warehouse (along with SS lines) - fitted them together with EBC Red Stuff pads ...... my goodness what a difference, I have never thought the car could stop so well.
__________________
1995 LSI, Added the following - Gear Firm-Up unit (that I sell) together with Power TCU ROM & Power switch, K&N air filter, SVX side badges (USA type), Rear Deck Blower (JDM type), Side front markers (USA type), Side rear markers (USA type), Middle rear light (USA type), USA OEM Fog Lights fitted into NZ OEM glass (NZ OEM headlights had only reflectors fitted) Full set of yellow (90SH) Polish bushes includes 15 min mod, R1 Concepts drilled/slotted/gold finish rotors & Red covered braided brake lines (both from Dayle at Motorsport warehouse), EBC Redstuff brake pads. Full SVX bra (only used for shows). Koni adjustable inserts fitted inside OEM strut body, Zoom lowering springs (2" lower), OEM headlight washers fitted.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-20-2014, 02:31 PM
SVX_MY_BABY's Avatar
SVX_MY_BABY SVX_MY_BABY is offline
Posting since Dec.'98
Subaru Silver Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: HALIFAX Nova Scotia
Posts: 1,472
Registered SVX
Re: Rotors and pads

Quote:
Originally Posted by SURTEESS View Post
I bought drilled/slotted/gold passivated rotors/discs from Dayle at the Motorsport Warehouse (along with SS lines) - fitted them together with EBC Red Stuff pads ...... my goodness what a difference, I have never thought the car could stop so well.
My dad put EBC Red stuff ceramic on his Jag XF. Instant stopping power to the point of being touchy. They grab hard on his car.
__________________
Peter
ART Cryogenic/Slotted Rotors, Stainless Steel Brake Lines, PWR Radiator, Tranny cooler, Stebro, Earthworm's Poly Differential/front & rear swaybar bushings, Koni Inserts and Mychailo SVX Sport Springs all 4 corners, Indigo Blue paint. Liquid Silver Wheels.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-20-2014, 02:37 PM
Jvan Jvan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Chappaqua,NY
Posts: 461
Re: Rotors and pads

I have drilled/slotted cryo rotors from Brembro that are terrific but no longer available w/this combination from Brembro. I went w/Brembro because they are not made in China and are OEM on many high performance cars. After years of use, there are no cracks in any of the holes. Although the combination is not currently available, you can purchase them cross drilled or slotted and cryo coated. Cost is still reasonable and they are a quality item. My choice for pads are the Hawk HPS; used them for years and have no complaints about cold stopping (only takes a few minutes/miles to reach temp) or dust/wear on rotors (quality rotors vs China made). My experience/two cents after over 15 years .+ of useing these products on a SVX.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-21-2014, 08:01 AM
SVX_MY_BABY's Avatar
SVX_MY_BABY SVX_MY_BABY is offline
Posting since Dec.'98
Subaru Silver Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: HALIFAX Nova Scotia
Posts: 1,472
Registered SVX
Re: Rotors and pads

To update, it's the front pads which are the same as the Nissan Pathfinder.

The rear pads are FSMI No. 7351-D471 (Friction Materials Standards Institute).

Seems they are only common to Legacy from 1990 - 1999 and Impreza 1993 - 1998.
Performance Friction no longer makes them.
__________________
Peter
ART Cryogenic/Slotted Rotors, Stainless Steel Brake Lines, PWR Radiator, Tranny cooler, Stebro, Earthworm's Poly Differential/front & rear swaybar bushings, Koni Inserts and Mychailo SVX Sport Springs all 4 corners, Indigo Blue paint. Liquid Silver Wheels.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-21-2014, 08:42 AM
Huskymaniac's Avatar
Huskymaniac Huskymaniac is offline
Uses the ignore feature
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Corning, NY
Posts: 1,872
Registered SVX
Re: Rotors and pads

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVX_MY_BABY View Post
Last time I purchased pads I got Centric Posi-quiet. They are good but I preferred the Performance friction. I bought rotors, callipers and pads from ART. I ordered by part number from my previous order and was surprised to get the Centric.
So to answer your question. Back in 2000 Performance had both front and rear. They required a firm application (not crazy hard) the first couple of times braking from a cold start but after that were fine. Never thought about them. The posi quiet are good but a bit dusty and some squeal.

If I remember correctly the rear brakes are common with a Nissan Pathfinder. I wonder if it's just a glitch in Performance's search engine.
Which Posi-quiet did you get, the ceramic or the semi-metallic?
__________________
Tony

1996 Polo Green Subaru SVX LSi, 168,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 5W50 FS (3qt) and 5W30 High Mileage (4qt) Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, Centric Rotors, Power Stop Evolution Carbon Fiber Ceramic Brake Pads
2005 Gray Acura RL, 165,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF with Lubegard Platinum Protectant, Mobil 1 5W20 High Mileage Extended Performance Oil
2009 Red Toyota Venza, 123,XXX, Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage Oil
1992 Red Ferrari 348 ts, 82,XXX, Redline everything
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-21-2014, 08:55 AM
Huskymaniac's Avatar
Huskymaniac Huskymaniac is offline
Uses the ignore feature
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Corning, NY
Posts: 1,872
Registered SVX
Re: Rotors and pads

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVX_MY_BABY View Post
My dad put EBC Red stuff ceramic on his Jag XF. Instant stopping power to the point of being touchy. They grab hard on his car.
How did the Reds do in the cold? I know the Yellows tend to be grabby when cold but still have a long stopping distance until they warm up. Maybe the data I saw showed that they didn't play nice with the ABS when cold.

There is a lot of confusing information out there. For example, forums I have read had most people agreeing that the Carbon-Metallic performance pads like the Hawk HPS and the ones from Performance Friction don't stop well when cold but are pretty good when warm. However, the data shown here (http://blog.caranddriver.com/perform...c-yellowstuff/) shows the Hawk HPS as doing well on the first cold stop but fading quickly. I don't really care too much about the fading but the cold stop data conflicts with what people are reporting. Aramid based pads like the Stoptech Street Performance pads also have similar comments about their cold stopping ability not being great. My personal experience has been that ceramic pads have nice features with regards to durability, being easy on rotors and not creating dust but that they don't stop that well in general. The semi-metallic Brembo pads on my Acura stop GREAT and don't show a strong temperature dependence. That makes me lean toward semi-metallic. The problem is that there is a general belief that semi-metallics are more prone to overheating and depositing crap on the rotors which is what leads to the judder I am trying to avoid. All of this is why the EBC Ultimax pads seem to be a nice compromise. They are semi-metallic so they have the grip charateristics I am looking for but they also claim to have done something to eliminate judder.
__________________
Tony

1996 Polo Green Subaru SVX LSi, 168,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 5W50 FS (3qt) and 5W30 High Mileage (4qt) Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, Centric Rotors, Power Stop Evolution Carbon Fiber Ceramic Brake Pads
2005 Gray Acura RL, 165,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF with Lubegard Platinum Protectant, Mobil 1 5W20 High Mileage Extended Performance Oil
2009 Red Toyota Venza, 123,XXX, Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage Oil
1992 Red Ferrari 348 ts, 82,XXX, Redline everything
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-22-2014, 07:33 AM
SVX_MY_BABY's Avatar
SVX_MY_BABY SVX_MY_BABY is offline
Posting since Dec.'98
Subaru Silver Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: HALIFAX Nova Scotia
Posts: 1,472
Registered SVX
Re: Rotors and pads

I have the Posi Quiet semi metallic. Ref: the EBC Red, I haven't noticed any difference between cold and warmed up.
__________________
Peter
ART Cryogenic/Slotted Rotors, Stainless Steel Brake Lines, PWR Radiator, Tranny cooler, Stebro, Earthworm's Poly Differential/front & rear swaybar bushings, Koni Inserts and Mychailo SVX Sport Springs all 4 corners, Indigo Blue paint. Liquid Silver Wheels.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2015 SVX World Network
(208)-906-1122