The thingy scratching my window

[EdWindows]

Originally Posted by injuhneer

I'll add some photos to illustrate my fix but after studying the lift and these blocks it became apparent that dirt was only one problem. All factors considered the main culprit is the small contact area. All of the pressure to guide the glass rests at the pad contact point and the lift rails. Add the compression of the cloth cover and dirt to the equation and you get an abrasive pad. The pad face is under pressure and cannot clear debris like a pile seal (brush) can because the fibers are compressed.

The goal was to stop abrading the window. To correct this a wider contact area is needed. I have two possible long term fixes for the interior pads:

A) machine new pads from nylon or acetal that are much longer and a bit thinner. The surface area will be larger to give more bearing and less crush to the pile on the face.
B) use the existing brackets and string a tube or channel between them and install the pile seal across the entire span.

If the interior pads don't clean up nicely (I used the same brass wire suede brush I use on the interior to clean the pads) there is a nice fix I picked up from a friend. Clean the old cloth/pile off the nylon pad and wrap the loop (soft) part of some Velcro around it and reinstall. It is nylon and will last a good long time.

Velcro loop wrapped pad

For the exterior the pads were removed entirely. The trim was removed and cleaned. A pile seal (brush) was added just below the factory wiper on the bare metal and runs the entire length of the windows. A second strip was added behind the factory felt wiper for a bit more pressure. The contact of the brush holds the window stable without the pile being completely crushed. This should allow the pile seal to support the window but still allow debris to clear; this rather than the pads which became compacted.


Pile seal installed on trim

It certainly works in testing. The long term obviously will take time but it is a start.

-Mike O

Interesting fix. Both my driver and passenger front windows are starting to show scratches so I'll probably try this. Might do it to my rear windows as well since I need to put them back on track anyways.

[injuhneer]

Originally Posted by EdWindows

Interesting fix. Both my driver and passenger front windows are starting to show scratches so I'll probably try this. Might do it to my rear windows as well since I need to put them back on track anyways.

I hope it works for you. The idea for thsi fix is simple. The original pads/guides became compressed and trapped dirt. An uncompressed brush seal can shed dirt if the fibers of the pile aren't compressed.

So the long seal still supports the glass without compressing the pile so far that dirt is trapped.

It isn't a new idea. This is how most cars are designed. I suppose Subaru put a little to much faith in the weather strip.

-Mike O

[Old Davy]

Originally Posted by injuhneer

It isn't a new idea. This is how most cars are designed. I suppose Subaru put a little too much faith in the weather strip.

-Mike O

Right you are, Mike, and I applaud your perseverance.
I've had the windows on all my frame-less window Subarus eventually exhibit these track scratches from the short-sighted stabilizer design, which press on two specific narrow areas. While cleaning out the Legacy & Outback pads twice annually, on many occasions an idea like yours has been percolating in my brain but the lightbulb didn't illuminate until now.
Thanks for pulling it all together for us.

The scratch tracks on my SVX front driver side - pic 1 - are the worst I've seen, because that's the window most opened. My glass guy thinks he can get most of it out with the Cerium Oxide method - at least minimized - but first I have to eliminate what's causing it. So I stopped opening the windows until I had the time to address the problem. I'm on winter vacation time now but my garage is not wide enough to be able to work inside and it's been raining steadily for almost 4 weeks now. Sun supposed to come out again on Saturday so no matter how cold it is, the door cards are coming off to at least inspect, clean & renew the old stabilizer pads and adjust the track alignment, since the softer inside tint film surface shows no evidence that they are contacting the inner pads at all. I imagine that the factory setting coupled with 15 years of dirt packed pads are pressing against the window too much as it travels.
Smart idea to install a full width brush pile wiper support and I'm gonna give it a shot.

I found this adhesive strip - pic 2 - at HomeDepot that looks like what you used. Is it?
3/16" high pile on a 1/4" base strip. I'm a mite concerned about the strength of the adhesive backing but won't know until I have the piece out and cleaned. I can always beef up the adhesive with some industrial-strength brush-on. Thin double sided tape for exterior window shrink film is very tacky (the very devil to remove in the Spring).
There is also a thin 1/32" thick x 1/2" wide black soft rubber tape used to apply vehicle trims and badge-ing. This Trim Tape I get at the auto parts store (Canadian Tire) and the pressure sensitive adhesive is so strong & grippy it would probably hold tiles to the Space Shuttle. Adding 1/32" to the pile height might ad that extra measure of support for the glass.

For anyone who has not downloaded the Tech Manuals from:
http://phantomotaku.com/SVX/
pics 3, 4 & 5 show the mechanism and track adjustment points.

[injuhneer]

Originally Posted by Old Davy

I found this adhesive strip - pic 2 - at HomeDepot that looks like what you used. Is it?
3/16" high pile on a 1/4" base strip. I'm a mite concerned about the strength of the adhesive backing but won't know until I have the piece out and cleaned. I can always beef up the adhesive with some industrial-strength brush-on.

For anyone who has not downloaded the Tech Manuals from:
http://phantomotaku.com/SVX/
pics 3, 4 & 5 show the mechanism and track adjustment points.

That is indeed the stuff. I had the same thought. It is made to stick to aluminum frame windows and sliding doors. It seemed to bond nicely to the weatherstrip. I had the same thought about better adhesive.

At least it is an easy inspection. Roll down the window and look.

-Mike O

[EdWindows]

Wow Old Davey, my windows are almost that bad as well.
The scratches in mine are extremely light (can't catch my fingernail on them), so according to various sources on the web either toothpaste or some Meguiar's cleaner wax should supposedly buff them out.
Also, I like your rims.

[EdWindows]

So I went to the store and tried to buy some stuff for my windows.
Found some jewlery rouge/polishing compound/cerium oxide at a HobbyTown, but for some reason no one at Home Depot knew what door pile seal was and all I could find was rubber or foam door weatherstripping.
I tested out some of the polish on my phone screen, and I think I did it wrong because the scratches are still there and it left a nice new circular scratch in it instead...

[injuhneer]

[QUOTE=EdWindows;715041]So I went to the store and tried to buy some stuff for my windows.
Found some jewlery rouge/polishing compound/cerium oxide at a HobbyTown, but for some reason no one at Home Depot knew what door pile seal was and all I could find was rubber or foam door weatherstripping.
[QUOTE]

At Home Depot it is called Storm Door weather strip.

Prime-Line Storm Door and Window Weatherstrip
Model # T 8659
Internet # 202639194


-Mike O

[injuhneer]

So I did the same to the rear windows yesterday. It worked in exactly the same way.

Changed out the disintegrated OEM 6x9 speakers too while in there.

-Mike O

[EdWindows]

Originally Posted by injuhneer

At Home Depot it is called Storm Door weather strip.

Prime-Line Storm Door and Window Weatherstrip
Model # T 8659
Internet # 202639194


-Mike O

Damn. Yeah, I should've d it on their website first before I went, but I went in on a whim as I passed it while doing other errands.
I'll probably go to Ace today since it's closer to my house.
EDIT: What's the pile seal you bought at Ace Hardware? I can't find any on their website and they didn't have any in store, and at Home Depot it says online only.



Also:

Originally Posted by injuhneer

A second strip was added behind the factory felt wiper for a bit more pressure

EDIT: Upon closer inspection at the larger image file, I see what you meant.
http://ootfab.webhop.net/ootfab/external/IMAG0679.jpg

[injuhneer]

Originally Posted by EdWindows

I'll probably go to Ace today since it's closer to my house.
EDIT: What's the pile seal you bought at Ace Hardware? I can't find any on their website and they didn't have any in store, and at Home Depot it says online only.
]

Just go to ACE and ask for the aisle where weather stripping is located. It will be there.

Ace® Self-Adhesive Pile Weatherstrip
Item no: 52210 | 079843001215

Now that it has been a few days I think my only concern is the long term holding power of the adhesive. The weather can be quite warm here and I am interested in how well the tape will hold. If it doesn't I'll go to a stronger adhesive. The other alternative is a metal backed sweeper. It is the same concept just mounted in metal.

-Mike O

[injuhneer]

Originally Posted by EdWindows

Also:

EDIT: Upon closer inspection at the larger image file, I see what you meant.
http://ootfab.webhop.net/ootfab/external/IMAG0679.jpg

Yep, that is why I added the link to the large photo. Hard to see on the smaller version.

-Mike O

[EdWindows]

I finally found the pile seal at Ace. A lot smaller than I thought and $10. :/

I couldn't get the outer pad mounts out of the door with the window still in, and I couldn't figure out how to remove the window with what little daylight I had, so I just ripped the old felt off and replaced it with new pile seal. I also went ahead and put a whole strip of pile seal between the two pads for extra support.

Picture isn't the best since I was finishing up around sunset, but in the picture the light gray stuff is the pile seal.

[injuhneer]

The weatherstrip/trim is held in place by two push type rivets.

When disassembling remove the inner pads first. This will allow the window to be tilted inward and give a bit more space to work on the outer pads.

The pile seal should run the entire length of the weatherstrip/trim to support the window through its entire motion. The goal being to eliminate the outer pads altogether.

I have had this mod in place on my car for over a month now. So far no issues.

-Mike O

[WYOSVX]

Any more word on this fix?

Is it a long term improvement?

It seems to me that some sort of drum-shaped rubber rollers would be ideal for the job. Something like miniature conveyor belt rollers or a pair of tiny wheel barrow wheels.

I've been shopping for miniature bearings on the web with no luck yet.

Ideas?

[WYOSVX]

In case this is useful to anyone else...
I wasn't impressed with the piling I found at Ace, though it is probably fine the way it is. So, I found this at a Chinese site called Banggood:

1 x 5M Window Door Self Adhesive Draught Excluder Brush Pile Seal (SKU120702) US$2.99
Color Brown

Plus shipping.

I put it on my driver's door this weekend, using just the 3M glue under the strip since I've found these glues to be surprisingly strong in the past.
I had a hard time with the stock pads; I felt pretty stupid since others posted they'd come off easily for them. Mine were glued on and I had to take out the glass and chisel the pads off the door.
The second pic is the roll of piling, first pic shows how worn out my pads were. Third pic shows the piling attached to the shiny metal strip below the rubber window seal. I ran it the full length. No adjustment to the window was needed, especially after I made sure that the guide way up toward the front of the glass was actually in it's channel. I decided to hold off on the other windows to see how well this works.
Word of warning to anyone else with tinted windows: if you take out and re-install your tinted glass, be careful not to scratch it. Yeah, I need to re-tint that window now. Ugh!
Hopefully, the piling is a success story but I won't know for while.