Okay...time for questions

[Roo]

I was up until 2am reading threads from this forum. I'm back in the family with a '92 SVX LS-L project car.

I want to participate in Open Road Racing, and would like to prep the car to safely and effectively run long stretches (think 50-70 miles x 2 passes) at what might be considered reckless speeds on closed highways.

I would like some input and opinions on how to prepare this car from scratch. Right now I have about a 19 month planned build time, and a budget spread over that period of ~10k. I'll doe the frame-off paintjob myself in order to save money, and be able to spend more on the powertrain.

So far, I've figured a complete motor rebuild with all the parts ECUTune has to offer for the motor, a rebuilt stock transmission (upgraded of course), and the EM to support this.

What is the maximum HP you think can be realized out of this N/A motor? I need to stay N/A or I might have issues with California DMV when I have to smog the car.

Any suggestions? I'll be chronicling progress as I go along, and will be asking advice along the way.

BTW, would re-wiring this for OBD-II help any?

[It's Just Eric]

eh, for naturally asperated applications, you're prettymuch on your own as far as engine rebuild specs. I know the ecutune stage 2 software, some cams of some sort, and things like an effective intake and better flowigng exhaust will really help the powe up top (Which is where you plan on making it at the kinds of speeds your looking to achieve)

Gigantic brakes would be my first purchace though. you'lll also want to tweak the areodynamics a bit. Sure, the svx has an absurdly low cd, but how will the car behave from an areodynamic standpoint at 150+ mph?

[Trevor]

I see from your profile that your interests is rallies and it would therefore appear that racing as such is not involved. The most important aspect will be the exact regulations which will apply.

You should specify exactly what restrictions are involved, otherwise many here could spend a great deal of time and effort posting information which can not be used, the options being endless.

All the best with the project.

[crazyhorse]

Originally Posted by It's Just Eric

you'lll also want to tweak the areodynamics a bit. Sure, the svx has an absurdly low cd, but how will the car behave from an areodynamic standpoint at 150+ mph?

My 2cents on SVX Aero... Lowered, raked with a 2-3" "ducktail" spoiler. That'll stick the rear end pretty well. I'd also close up the whole grille opening between the headlights, and open up the bumper to compensate. Some rubber "toe mouldings" from the local home improvement store around the lower front, and along the sides, will keep the air out from under the car. Granted you'll be raising the CD, but the aim is to reduce lift, rather than create downforce.

Check out some Bonneville racers websites to get a feel for aero mods that work.

[Roo]

Originally Posted by Trevor

I see from your profile that your interests is rallies and it would therefore appear that racing as such is not involved. The most important aspect will be the exact regulations which will apply.

You should specify exactly what restrictions are involved, otherwise many here could spend a great deal of time and effort posting information which can not be used, the options being endless.

All the best with the project.

Open Road Racing

Here's the information to the motorsport that I'm turning my interest toward right now. My interest is more of any motorsport where Subaru has a presence. I'm not much into drag racing, and definitely not into a constant left turn, if you know what I mean.

BTW, ITN is a rally organization based in Southern California who does navigational road rallies which are an AWESOME time.

There are so many different types of rallying going on around, and I've volunteered at Rim of the World, participated in the Laughlin Adventure Rally.

As for aerodynamics, a good friend and professional rally driver Paul Eklund of Primitive Racing will be receiving this vehicle sometime during the buildup process in order to build a Primitive skidplate for it. From personal experience with his products on both of my Foresters, this will tie the front end together better than any H-brace, and provide a nice front end guard against air under the car. We may/may not consider a rear diffuser of some sort as well. I'm looking at the SVX Warehouse for something suitable in the front bumper/side skirts category.

[GreenMarine]

Originally Posted by crazyhorse

My 2cents on SVX Aero... Lowered, raked with a 2-3" "ducktail" spoiler. That'll stick the rear end pretty well. I'd also close up the whole grille opening between the headlights, and open up the bumper to compensate. Some rubber "toe mouldings" from the local home improvement store around the lower front, and along the sides, will keep the air out from under the car. Granted you'll be raising the CD, but the aim is to reduce lift, rather than create downforce.

Check out some Bonneville racers websites to get a feel for aero mods that work.

Dude, you've got to be joking... The Aerodynamics are just fine the way they are... Subaru did a great job building the car... Just worry about suspension and brakes... Everyone likes to go on about areodynamics this aerodynamics that when in reality a good set of tires, good suspension, good brakes will be all you need... Don't try to "backyard engineer" something that Italiadesign spent years and tons of $$$ doing because it won't come out any better in the end...

Seriously Roo... BRAKES, SUSPENSION, TIRES... Then work on your engine and power... Forget AERODYNAMICS... Me engine is essentially "stock" and I have had my car to 155 - 160mph (yes it was stupid) and I can say that it felt very planted...

~ Chris

[mikecg]

I think I'm in agreement with most of the people here. Dollar for dollar you'd be better off working on other areas of the car before you dive into the engine. Brake and Suspension will do wonders for what you want. For the speed, you'd be better off shaving as much weight off the car before you worry about making power. Remember to take the weight out before you do the suspension too. Shaving alot of weight out of the car is going to effect the spring rates you'll be wanting to use. You could talk to the guy's running the grassroots SVX. They delt with reduced weight and suspensions quite a bit not too long ago.

[SubaSteevo]

Originally Posted by GreenMarineSVX

Dude, you've got to be joking... The Aerodynamics are just fine the way they are... Subaru did a great job building the car... Just worry about suspension and brakes... Everyone likes to go on about areodynamics this aerodynamics that when in reality a good set of tires, good suspension, good brakes will be all you need... Don't try to "backyard engineer" something that Italiadesign spent years and tons of $$$ doing because it won't come out any better in the end...

Seriously Roo... BRAKES, SUSPENSION, TIRES... Then work on your engine and power... Forget AERODYNAMICS... Me engine is essentially "stock" and I have had my car to 155 - 160mph (yes it was stupid) and I can say that it felt very planted...

~ Chris

I'm with Chris. Maybe add a stock wing if the car wasn't already equipped with one and you're good to go.

I'd also suggest the PWR radiator in addition to the brake, suspension, weight reduction, and ECUTune mods.

[pleiad7]

Originally Posted by GreenMarineSVX

Dude, you've got to be joking... The Aerodynamics are just fine the way they are... Subaru did a great job building the car... Just worry about suspension and brakes... Everyone likes to go on about areodynamics this aerodynamics that when in reality a good set of tires, good suspension, good brakes will be all you need... Don't try to "backyard engineer" something that Italiadesign spent years and tons of $$$ doing because it won't come out any better in the end...

Seriously Roo... BRAKES, SUSPENSION, TIRES... Then work on your engine and power... Forget AERODYNAMICS... Me engine is essentially "stock" and I have had my car to 155 - 160mph (yes it was stupid) and I can say that it felt very planted...

~ Chris

I totally agree with you (this is Roo's wife btw, he put me in charge of the aerodynamics, interior and safety on this project )... but I do think that a spoiler would be beneficial to keep the rear planted, as this is a 92 with the bare decklid. I'm thinking a retrofit with a stock spoiler from one of the later models years should do nicely.

[Roo]

Originally Posted by GreenMarineSVX

Seriously Roo... BRAKES, SUSPENSION, TIRES... Then work on your engine and power... Forget AERODYNAMICS... Me engine is essentially "stock" and I have had my car to 155 - 160mph (yes it was stupid) and I can say that it felt very planted...

~ Chris

You think I'm a bit too concerned about the powertrain?

This car has 257k on the odo, and no rebuilds...so I was figuring that it is high time for that to happen. The powertrain being reliable running at those speeds is more important to me so I'm not stuck paying a several hundred dollar towing bill from out in the middle of nowhere.

I'm working on wheels right now...but need to confirm a few things before I plop down some serious $$$$ on a set of forged Prodrive wheels. Tires? I know I'm dropping at least a grand on tires to do the job right - Z rated is below the standard that I'm going after...

Suspension? Brakes?

Suspension is more my wife's department, as are brakes. She's going to be researching upgrade paths...

[svxistentialist]

Originally Posted by pleiad7

I totally agree with you (this is Roo's wife btw, he put me in charge of the aerodynamics, interior and safety on this project )... but I do think that a spoiler would be beneficial to keep the rear planted, as this is a 92 with the bare decklid. I'm thinking a retrofit with a stock spoiler from one of the later models years should do nicely.

Hello Roo's wife, you are very welcome to the Network.

I'm in general agreement with what the guys are saying here. Spend the most money on brakes and suspension, it will give the best return.

Also as Trevor alluded, this road racing you mention will be like WRC rallying only in the timing element; you will be judged on how close to your target average you can get. So it will be necessary to plan in advance what your target speed is going to be before you do much to the engine/drivetrain.

Depending what speed you want to average, I feel you will be better served by a 4.44 gearbox, or possibly a 4.11.

You will be able to hold a 150 average with the 4.44, but the revs will be so high that doing away with heat will be a bit of a problem. I figure possibly a 140 average could reasonably work for the 4.11, that's the ratio I favour.

With the standard US transmission final drive maybe 120 could be reliably held if the course is not too twisty.

You will need the bigger rad, plus you need a transmission cooler, and you should put an oil cooler on it also.

I have designed a spreadsheet with four final drives compared with road speeds, assuming standard rolling radius. If it is of use to you I'll send you a copy.

Great project!! I wish you luck with it.

Joe

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by svxistentialist

Hello Roo's wife, you are very welcome to the Network.

I'm in general agreement with what the guys are saying here. Spend the most money on brakes and suspension, it will give the best return.

Also as Trevor alluded, this road racing you mention will be like WRC rallying only in the timing element; you will be judged on how close to your target average you can get. So it will be necessary to plan in advance what your target speed is going to be before you do much to the engine/drivetrain.

Depending what speed you want to average, I feel you will be better served by a 4.44 gearbox, or possibly a 4.11.

You will be able to hold a 150 average with the 4.44, but the revs will be so high that doing away with heat will be a bit of a problem. I figure possibly a 140 average could reasonably work for the 4.11, that's the ratio I favour.

With the standard US transmission final drive maybe 120 could be reliably held if the course is not too twisty.

You will need the bigger rad, plus you need a transmission cooler, and you should put an oil cooler on it also.

I have designed a spreadsheet with four final drives compared with road speeds, assuming standard rolling radius. If it is of use to you I'll send you a copy.

Great project!! I wish you luck with it.

Joe

It would certainly be both helpful and very interesting to have more complete information regarding the type of competitive event involved. As I mentioned, the relevant regulations will dictate what modifications are possible.

Joe suggests AVERAGE speeds of 140 - 150 MPH. Where, when, and for how long, is the question?

[svxistentialist]

Originally Posted by Trevor

It would certainly be both helpful and very interesting to have more complete information regarding the type of competitive event involved. As I mentioned, the relevant regulations will dictate what modifications are possible.

Joe suggests AVERAGE speeds of 140 - 150 MPH. Where, when, and for how long, is the question?

Hey, it's only a suggestion. They can dawdle and take in the scenery if they want.

[Roo]

Originally Posted by Trevor

It would certainly be both helpful and very interesting to have more complete information regarding the type of competitive event involved. As I mentioned, the relevant regulations will dictate what modifications are possible.

Joe suggests AVERAGE speeds of 140 - 150 MPH. Where, when, and for how long, is the question?

From what I gather from the Open Road Racing website, this is a stretch of open highway which is between 80-100 miles long, and you do 2 passes and attempt to average your speed. Speed classes start at a snail pace (85mph) and go to 200+mph pace...

...the faster you go, the more equipment you need.

[ensteele]

Welcome to the site.

The 92s came with stock spoilers as well, but were an option. I would agree with the other members that the engine is a good one and there are lots of other things that will make this car better at corners and stops. It is a very safe car even if it is stock. Good luck with the project.