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  #16  
Old 05-23-2005, 06:31 PM
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Earthworm Earthworm is offline
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I don't think the EG33 has any Porsche parts inside but I thought it was the variable valve timing they licensed from Porsche?
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  #17  
Old 05-24-2005, 12:18 AM
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Duh the whole engine is made by porsche. There's also twin turbo manual versions in japan.

No there's no vvt and there's no porsche parts on this suby.
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  #18  
Old 05-24-2005, 12:28 AM
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thats a little harsh... seems like you take the crude aproach to dropping knowledge not always recomended as it was not a shot at you to begin with.

Tom
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  #19  
Old 05-24-2005, 12:50 AM
Spindoctor Spindoctor is offline
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Spindoctor wonders?

What is most interesting to me about the EG33 motor is how under utilized it seems to be.
I realize the day of the SVX came and went just before the big explosion in import tuning really hit but, for about two thirds the price of a new STI I could aquire a nice SVX mod the hell out of it,custom as it may be, pocket the extra 10k and blow most of the locals off the street.
Lets face it mod for mod at the end of the day there is no replacement for displacement.
I see guys on my dyno trying to build thier BMW mini's. They will throw thousands of dollars at these money holes and if thier lucky they might get up to 250 hp.
I also have loads of EVOs, WRXs & STIs all very impressive when modified.
Again- this is my first foray into an EG33 project. On paper it should play with the best of the entry level super cars. And so far I have found no one that is willing to tell me different.
I slipped mine into a 98 Impreza because Iam into stealth cars. This car will remain as unaltered in appearance as I can get away with. That includes leaving a dummy stock muffler in its factory location and no visible guages in the dash. Add a Tein suspension,Par built trans with ACT clutch and some Friday night Cobra is going to have to try explain to his buddies what just happend.
I am still interested in any parts ideas (especially axle mods\up-grades).
Horror stories on what not to do are sometimes more important than you might think - I'll take those to.Again - Thanks in advance for your input.
Tim H - The Spindoctor
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  #20  
Old 05-24-2005, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindoctor
Horror stories on what not to do are sometimes more important than you might think - I'll take those to.Again - Thanks in advance for your input.
Tim H - The Spindoctor
I have only heard two horror stories related to the engine, and both were NOS-related. Both simply ran too much. One was likely because of the ultra-low gearing of 1st gear in the STi 6MT, mixed with a NOS hit at near-idle RPM speed. His story is being told as we speak, and he blew the #4 piston to little pieces. Also did some valve damage IIRC. The other guy ran too much too often, and blew a piston rod.

Correct me if my stories are wrong, but I believe those are adequate.

There is one EG33-t on this forum, running safely on what... 8 psi? The other is the ECUtune stage 3, so far running safely on 6 - 7 psi. I have heard stories of two other EG33-t motors, one of which I have seen pictures of. Never heard any horror stories about that one. The other, you will have to ask SVXtasy about. It is the guy who wrote the infamous "SVX FAQ" and he has gotten a lot of info from that guy.

The general consensus thus far is that a 100 shot of NOS, without tuning, is at the limit. Anywhere above, and tuning is necessary. 6 - 8 psi of boost has been safe thus far, obviously with some moderate tuning. Start there, and ramp up a little now and again. You will likely take the engine to breaking point one day - under heavy load of course. I have never ever heard of EG33 internals being damaged in a stock vehicle. I have also never heard of one "simply breaking," even in a modified SVX. All of them that broke had been under load.

Does that help at all? While I don't say much on this board, you could pick my brain for hours.
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  #21  
Old 05-24-2005, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindoctor
....Again - Thanks in advance for your input.
Tim H - The Spindoctor
I'm very much looking forward to your work. My concern is that the EG33 motor may not be tough enough for the job. I think you'll be one of the people who helps define the limits of the motor. :-)
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  #22  
Old 05-24-2005, 11:53 AM
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Its all good- so far!

With as much time and money that I expect to put into this project, it is still
what I call a POC -proof of concept. So some of the little extras like cryo treating the crank and rods, thermal coating the piston tops, valves and exhaust runners just won't happen this time. I doubt that I would spend the money on cams if I found a set.
So for now I will make the most with 8.5:1 pistons, as far as engine mods go, and spend the extra on proper fuel\boost control. Port and polish I can do for the cost of the cutting heads so I will do that.
I dodn't intend to break this engine in the name of research but, sometimes thats just the way the pistons crumble.
It certainly would not be the first engine to relocate it internals while on my dyno.
-The Spindoctor
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  #23  
Old 05-24-2005, 12:47 PM
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do you plan on closing the deck?? i mean if you are planning on running 14-16lbs of boost, it would be suggested. What are your plans for the headgasket? The stock gasket will pop under that pressure. The cams cannot be ground that much to make a significant gain it would not be worth the money to have them done. There was a deep discrussion about valve spring tension and what it's reactions would be under boost. Check the Stage III development thread twards the end. Subafreak was the one who recently blew the motor due to a low launch and early activation of the Nitrous. Poweredx2 was the other person to break a rod from running a little too lean on a 150 shot dry. Well I hope this helps....you may be able to buy custom pistons fitted for the ej22t and utilize them in the eg33 just for money sake but that is still up in the air also. Good luck with your project, we all wanna see what this eg33 can do.

Tom
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  #24  
Old 05-24-2005, 01:42 PM
Spindoctor Spindoctor is offline
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Closed deck

If I do go so far as to make any bottom end mods on this build it would be to close the deck.
This would go along way towards strengthening the assembly, particularly in the area of the headgasket.
My machinest has told me that many head gasket failures will start with poor headbolt performance, stretching under boost and allowing the hot gasses to burn the gasket. This is why an ARP stud kit will be used.
And as far as Nitrous goes, anything over a 100hp shot and I would be looking at a full wet shot system on this build.
Compared to a rebuild its not that much more and if you run a seperate
fuel system you can hit it with 104 to help prevent det.
-The Spindoctor
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  #25  
Old 05-24-2005, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindoctor
What is most interesting to me about the EG33 motor is how under utilized it seems to be.
I realize the day of the SVX came and went just before the big explosion in import tuning really hit but, for about two thirds the price of a new STI I could aquire a nice SVX mod the hell out of it,custom as it may be, pocket the extra 10k and blow most of the locals off the street.
Lets face it mod for mod at the end of the day there is no replacement for displacement.
I see guys on my dyno trying to build thier BMW mini's. They will throw thousands of dollars at these money holes and if thier lucky they might get up to 250 hp.
Tim H - The Spindoctor
Gid'ay Tim, your project looks good, and I see no reasion that it won't work. As you say, the engine is not stressed in standard form. It was not designed to give maximum hoursepower, rather it was a broard solid torque output that was needed to allow it to cruise at a high speed, all day.

The work that is needed, depends on the application. If it is to be a road car, with the odd hard blast, the engine is fine to say, 7psi. over that, the 2.2Turbo pistons are needed to drop the compression. 14 psi would be ok as long as it was not applied at too low a rpm.

If the engine is to be used for continious boost conditions, rally, circuit racing, full on drag racing, it would need more work done to the internals. Containing the cylinder pressure, gaskets ect, and cooling, exhaust valves, cylinder head, ect. While the engine speed is not taken too high <7k nothing else should give any trouble. Higher rpm would need better rods, valve springs, longer duration cams.

I myself prefer a Positive displacement blower, for the better spread of torque, and the cooler charge. I see you say the Turbo is more controlable. It is very easy to control the boost from a blower, as it is linked to the right foot, If you can't trust the foot, the bypass valve can be arranged to open to limit it. The Turbo is linked to the exhaust energy, that is not as positivly linked to the foot, and can run its own race.

All the best with it, we'll watch with interest.
Harvey,
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  #26  
Old 05-24-2005, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oab_au

All the best with it, we'll watch with interest.
Harvey,
lots of interest...

Tom
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  #27  
Old 05-25-2005, 12:24 AM
Spindoctor Spindoctor is offline
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Control

Harvey,

What I meant about control in respects to boost was in reference to tuning while on my dyno.

I have a twin eddy current AWD Mustang dyno and while tuning, particularly with live tune systems such as the Autronic, the dyno alows me to hold any load and rpm I choose at a steady state. With my laptop, from the drivers seat, I can adjust air\fuel, timing & boost while watchig EGTs , Knock signals and torque loads.
All done live action with instant feed back.
This how I can 'sneak up' the boost particularly in the low rpm knock prone areas, with a turbo.
To do this with a blower I would have to set best settings for a given pulley size, graph it, change pulley size, set best, graph again, compare graphs, possibly change pulleys again etc.- Its a little more tedious but thats how its done if you are searching for the best boost curve an engine can take.
Which ever system you choose to run is up to your personal need or skill.
They all have their strengths and weaknesses.
As long as you end up with what you where looking for its all good.
Getting an engine to tell me what it wants is the easy part.
Getting the customer to make up their minds and tell me what they want is the hard part.

By the way Harvey- are you anywhere near Melborn?
I could use a good deal on the new Autronic SM4 with the add on knock control board.
The Spindoctor
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  #28  
Old 05-25-2005, 12:34 AM
THAWA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomssvx
thats a little harsh... seems like you take the crude aproach to dropping knowledge not always recomended as it was not a shot at you to begin with.

Tom
Maybe I should've taken the duh out.
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  #29  
Old 05-25-2005, 12:45 AM
THAWA
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To add something slightly constructive , I think if you take a look at the other open deck subaru engines and compare them to this you will see a reliable limit you can reach. I'd say base most of your expectations on how far EJ20K's, EJ20H's, and EJ20R's can go before breaking. Increase this number 50% and that should give you an average of the amount of power you "should" be able to reliably make. Of course there's going to be differences since they're entirely different engines, but it should still give you round about numbers. I say if you've got tons of money to spend, test the limits of a few stock blocks first. See what breaks and when. Then concentrate time and money on those areas, that way you dont waste money on something you don't need to. Who's to say the stock block wont stand up to 500-600 hp. Course if you're not willing to sacrifice a few blocks then yeah, go all out.

Last edited by THAWA; 05-25-2005 at 12:48 AM.
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  #30  
Old 05-25-2005, 01:08 AM
Spindoctor Spindoctor is offline
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'Laugh' it up.

I read an article about an engine developement team for GM.
Their big secret for testing a new engine design for durability was:
Step 1) Hang it on the engine dyno
Step 2) Load it up and start flowing the nitrous until some thing breaks!
Step 3) Strengthen that component and go to step 2
I WISH I had that kind of job.
Usually when I do a Test to Failure Analysis (TFA) its because (as a visiting Gemballa tuner once told me) 'The car wasn't ready for the dyno'.
Spindoctor
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