Wag The Dog mideast style

[Weebitob]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=pallywood&pl

I know there are plenty of instances where combat actually occurs within the West Banks and Gaza Strip but this is still interesting as well as very plausible on what some Palestinians do on a slow day, is that actually an IDF outpost thus if so why are they permitting this or could it be a fabrication about a fabrication?

Discuss

Originally Posted by Weebitob

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=pallywood&pl

I know there are plenty of instances where combat actually occurs within the West Banks and Gaza Strip but this is still interesting as well as very plausible on what some Palestinians do on a slow day, is that actually an IDF outpost thus if so why are they permitting this or could it be a fabrication about a fabrication?

Discuss

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it is a mix of truth and fabrication. This kind of stuff has been going on forever. The only difference is the technology used and the sophistication of the people.

Way back in 1787, Catherine the Great did a grand tour of Ukraine and Crimea with her Court, including important European observers from other countries. She and her group remarked on how nice and prosperous everything looked, and came home thinking the people were happy. What even Catherine didn't know is that her lover had sent people ahead to make sure every place she visited was tidied up and made to look good before her arrival. It was all staged, and not a true reflection of reality.

You may not have heard of these details, but Catherine's lover has given his name to a phenomenon that continues to happen even now. He was Grigori Aleksandrovich Potemkin. Today we call such staged shows of accomplishment "Potemkin Villages".

[Electrophil]

Excellent clip!

I would say probably a good 70% of it is staged. Never doubted that. Propaganda.... The word has been overused, but still true.

Wonder where that word came from? Maybe bipapedia can tell us.

[NapaBavarian]

I figured it was exaggerated, but that is insaine!

Originally Posted by Electrophil

Excellent clip!

I would say probably a good 70% of it is staged. Never doubted that. Propaganda.... The word has been overused, but still true.

Wonder where that word came from? Maybe bipapedia can tell us.

You're being lazy ... I found this reference in about 20 seconds of searching. Here's a quick quote:

The actual Latin stem propagand- conveys a sense of "that which ought to be spread." Originally the term was not intended to refer to misleading information. The modern political sense dates from World War I, and was not originally pejorative.Propaganda has been a human activity as far back as reliable recorded evidence exists. The writings of Romans like Livy are considered masterpieces of pro-Roman statist propaganda.

Propaganda techniques were first codified and applied in a scientific manner by journalist Walter Lippman and psychologist Edward Bernays (nephew of Sigmund Freud) early in the 20th century. During World War I, Lippman and Bernays were hired by the United States President, Woodrow Wilson to participate in the Creel Commission, the mission of which was to sway popular opinion to enter the war on the side of Britain.

The war propaganda campaign of Lippman and Bernays produced within six months so intense an anti-German hysteria as to permanently impress American business (and Adolf Hitler, among others) with the potential of large-scale propaganda to control public opinion. Bernays coined the terms "group mind" and "engineering consent," important concepts in practical propaganda work.

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I found this while idly searching for other video propaganda examples like the one posted by Weebitob. Figured I could use some light entertainment.

Now, before anyone gets all upset, let me first state clearly that I've only watched the trailers for this 2hr 27 minute movie. The whole thing is available for free over the internet, in either Flash or Real media. I bought "movie snacks" today and plan to sit down and watch it Thursday evening (got a busy day tutoring tomorrow). If anyone is interested, I can post a review afterwards. The trailer intrigued me enough that I will at least attempt a viewing. If it is way too out there with too much unsubstantiated speculation and/or improbable left-wing BS, then I'll probably lose interest and let you know it isn't worth the time. Or else I just might keep watching it as I would a tongue-in-cheek satiric comedy The reason I'm a bit suspicious is because they have an advertisement on the main page for "The Canadian", an extreme left-wing newspaper which frankly I never read except to occasionally glance at the online headlines when I need a chuckle. ) I guess I'm just curious about what took three years to finish.

FOCCED is the first in a series that explores the relationship between US foreign policy, domestic budget cuts which hurt the poor, lobbyists in Washington, DC and the electoral process in the USA.

“Fellow Americans ... we’ve been FOCCED,” says narrator Stan Goff, a 22-year-veteran of US Special Forces, former Green Beret, Ranger and member of Delta Force. “The finance, oil, chemical, credit, energy and defence industries on Wall Street have hijacked the electoral process and turned the federal government into a slot machine designed to do nothing but pay out jackpots.” Step by step, Goff and his guests explain the how and why of 9/11, the war in Afghanistan, the war in Iraq, and the so-called war on terror.

Three years in the making, FOCCED is two hours and 27 minutes. It is distributed by Thousand Miles Productions, a BC registered not-for-profit educational society.

....
Featuring the voices of and interviews with more than a dozen prominent social activists including USMC Major Scott Ritter [Ret], US Attorney General Ramsey Clark, UN Assistant Secretary General Denis Halliday and hosted by former US Special Forces Master Sergeant Stan Goff.

http://www.chris-floyd.com/focced/

[mohrds]

It is distributed by Thousand Miles Productions, a BC registered not-for-profit educational society

educational society?

Center for Democracy and Technology
The Center for Public Integrety
Center for American Progress
Center for Media and Democracy

Those were just the first page of Google. There has got to be hundreds of thousands of these NGOs. I wonder how much money is dumped into political contributions on both sides.

[Electrophil]

It should be an entertaining movie. But like the first trailer says, the truth is always somewhere in the middle.

That reminds me, I found the DVD version of "loose change" and watched it. Extremely entertaining, and well produced, but..... Propaganda. What tipped me off was a froze every time a document/news report was flashed on the screen, and 90% were from The Freedom Press... who...coincidentally... produced the movie.

Originally Posted by mohrds

educational society?

Center for Democracy and Technology
The Center for Public Integrety
Center for American Progress
Center for Media and Democracy

Those were just the first page of Google. There has got to be hundreds of thousands of these NGOs. I wonder how much money is dumped into political contributions on both sides.

Yeah... I did a search on "Thousand Miles Productions", too, and came up with no results. Probably a brand new "society" created expressly for this series of "educational" videos.

Started watching that video and got interrupted maybe 10 minutes into it. Decided that since I'd stopped anyway, I might as well check a few points they make for accuracy. So far I haven't found any outright lies, although there are a few interesting statements which could be considered a bit misleading if someone didn't know the whole story.

One new thing I learned, is that the famous toppling of the Saddam statue wasn't just "helped along" by the US soldiers, but was probably instigated by the Army psychological operations team. My understanding had been that the Iraqi people themselves had started pulling the statue down, but it was very firmly embedded in its base and wouldn't budge. So the Iraqis asked the US soldiers for help and equipment. Well, that turns out to be questionable. Perhaps you all knew about it already, but this was new for me. Not totally convinced, but I'm starting to think the dog is being wagged again. What do you think?

First, a brief (44 sec wmv) TV clip of the event to refresh our memories, taken from Abu Dhabi TV.

Here's the other version:

Published on Saturday, July 3, 2004 by the Los Angeles Times
Army Stage-Managed Fall of Hussein Statue
by David Zucchino

The Army's internal study of the war in Iraq criticizes some efforts by its own psychological operations units, but one spur-of-the-moment effort last year produced the most memorable image of the invasion.

As the Iraqi regime was collapsing on April 9, 2003, Marines converged on Firdos Square in central Baghdad, site of an enormous statue of Saddam Hussein. It was a Marine colonel — not joyous Iraqi civilians, as was widely assumed from the TV images — who decided to topple the statue, the Army report said. And it was a quick-thinking Army psychological operations team that made it appear to be a spontaneous Iraqi undertaking.

After the colonel — who was not named in the report — selected the statue as a "target of opportunity," the psychological team used loudspeakers to encourage Iraqi civilians to assist, according to an account by a unit member.

But Marines had draped an American flag over the statue's face.

"God bless them, but we were thinking … that this was just bad news," the member of the psychological unit said. "We didn't want to look like an occupation force, and some of the Iraqis were saying, 'No, we want an Iraqi flag!' "

Someone produced an Iraqi flag, and a sergeant in the psychological operations unit quickly replaced the American flag.

Ultimately, a Marine recovery vehicle toppled the statue with a chain, but the effort appeared to be Iraqi-inspired because the psychological team had managed to pack the vehicle with cheering Iraqi children.

© Copyright 2004 Los Angeles Times

Bipa note: The Iraqi flag was also removed before the statue was toppled. Somebody realised that the symbolism of US soldiers "bringing down" the Iraq flag could be wrongly interpreted.
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Interesting overview photos of the square from the Palestine Hotel where international media were staying, at the time of the statue toppling.
Picture 1 - the statue still standing, US forces just arriving
Picture 2 - the crane is put into position, still almost no crowd
Picture 3 - crowd now begins to gather
Picture 4 - US flag is draped over Saddam's face
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Pics from an interesting article in French (sorry, no English transl. avail)
..
http://www.voltairenet.org/article9515.html
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Perth, Australia, clergyman Neville Watson mentions the event in an interview:

Well, there certainly was some jubilation, but I certainly wouldn't go along with that presented by television. The one that I've seen a lot of since I've been back is the toppling of the statue of Saddam and I can hardly believe it was the same one that I saw, because it happened at only about 300m from where I was and it was a very small crowd.
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/WAT304A.html
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Visiting professor speaks on "Topplegate"
By MATTHEW VAN DUSEN Star-Tribune staff writer Sunday, April 27, 2003
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The day Saddam's statue fell
Paul Wood
The BBC's Middle East correspondent
Last Updated: Friday, 9 April, 2004, 00:21 GMT 01:21 UK

Paul Wood was in Paradise Square when Iraq's most famous statue of Saddam Hussein came crashing down. He remembers what it was like and analyses the furious debate still raging over how the event was portrayed.
It was the single image which came to define the war: the huge bronze statue of Saddam pitching forward and falling from its plinth as a roar went up from crowd.

The hollow, metal dictator hadn't even come to rest before dozens of Iraqis leapt on it: screaming, stamping, cursing, crying, laughing, hitting, remembering, grieving and rejoicing.
"Traitor, liar, infidel, thief, coward," they shouted: insults which would have got them all killed only the day before came out in a torrent.

Like many iconic images, the image of Saddam's fall is bitterly contested.

Was it staged?

Was it American "propaganda by deed", or the spontaneous act of a free people?

Why was the US flag placed over Saddam's face?

Why did so few people come out to celebrate?

Was this the moment of liberation, or the beginning of occupation?
......
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The Shot Seen Round the World - Column
Washingtonpost.com, April 10, 2003 by Howard Kurtz
Byline: Howard Kurtz

It was a spontaneous moment, a natural moment, a dramatic moment, but it soon became a stage-managed moment.

The sight of Iraqis trying to topple Saddam's towering statue in downtown Baghdad yesterday morning was worth a thousand news conferences, a thousand op-ed pieces, a zillion propaganda leaflets dropped from U.S. planes. Finally, here was proof, for all the world to see, that at least some of Saddam's former subjects were feeling liberated.

The problem, as Ted Koppel put it, was that he remembered seeing anti-Soviet crowds trying to bring down a statue of Lenin, and "it took them 17 hours."

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